StampChat Archives

Archive:  August 1 - 15, 2003

• Last updated:  20 March 2004

August 15, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Here are a few I recently picked up at a local antique show:

Postcard 1 shows some type of WWII patriotic seal or label, tied by the postmark.

Postcard 2 is an atypical Xmas seal from the Lutheran Sanitarium, again tied by the cancel.
Postcard 3 I don't know why I really bought it...novelty I guess. Apparently the card got torn and someone used some old Official Seals to "mend" the card. Unfortunately, the postmark just misses tieing it to the card. I assume it was mended before it was sent.

August 15, 2003 prometheus

Forgot to mention
i really liked the Mail truck on the Raft 9 franc also

Noticed that some of these stamps have gone down in Cat value since 94 is that the power of the internet bringing the world to all, or just the way the market goes

August 15, 2003 prometheus

Thanks to all = Info on Zigzag Roulette
I guess I can assume that they are/were not a very pleasing to the Stamp Collector method of perfing stamps.

Here are some of the treasures I found in the pages of those 94 scotts nothing great but I did need the orange spec del 15c MNH
anyone need the share points Foundlings
The only one that appears used is the Russian OVPT which I am guessing is a CTO has full untouched gum on back.

August 15, 2003 sveiki!

Louise Take care! Talk to you soon! {:o)

August 15, 2003 Louise

It's rawer than Ilgi's recent albums (Saules Meita, Seju Veju) and great listening for when I'm painting.

Postcard
OK. Will do - remind me later, but I'll be back to Lodz soon.
Going to turn in now - take care!

August 15, 2003 sveiki!

Louise Also contemplating on creating an instant chat on my own website. {:o/

August 15, 2003 sveiki!

Louise No, haven't heard that one, yet. {:o)
You can send a scan of that postcard, even though I do remember how the picture side looks like (from the auction description picture).

August 15, 2003 Louise

Ah, very nice...very nice.

Have you heard Ilgi's "Agri Gada"?

On topic...do you want me to send you scans of that Riga postcard I mentioned the other night?

August 15, 2003 sveiki! http://www.lettonica.info
 

Louise Well, funny you should ask... Was just contemplating on where to do next update. {:o) Perhaps I'm going to scan some modern Latvian covers - have many thousands of them - not an easy task to complete.

August 15, 2003 sveiki!

Ah... Just getting very sentimental whilst listening to Latvian Dziesmu Svetki music on CD-Rom, which I bought during my recent vacation in Latvia. NOIP Dziesmu Svetki music is songs from a 1000 man/woman strong choir and no instruments - simply gives me goosebumps of joy.

August 15, 2003 Louise

Ah hello, sveiki! Anything new? Rather bored tonight...think I need a break from the computer and a decent meal...how's the site coming along?

August 15, 2003 sveiki!

Good Morning/Day/Afternoon/Evening!
TGIF!!!! {:o)

August 15, 2003 David Benson

Zigzag Roulettes
Prometheus, Gibbons calls them Zigzag roulette.

Zigzag Roulettes (French, perce en zigzags), Short straight cuts at angles in opposite directions, producing sharp poimts on separation. US usage favours serrate(d) for this type.

Another example of US and English using different philatelic terminology.

David Benson

August 15, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 15, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Serrate roulette

Just to point out the obvious...

Prometheus those stamps have their own Scott numbers.

Loading web sites Ever since I installed the patch for the Blaster virus, web sites often don't load completely. I get a white screen and the indication that the site is done loading, and a "Refresh" is necessary to actually see the site.

I'm on a phone modem but the problem is not due to slow loading, it happens quickly and it appears that Internet Explorer just decides it has done its job. It seems that computers are becoming more like humans every day. "Hal" thinks he just has to show up, doing any real work is an extra.

Duncan

"Open the pod bay doors Hal."

"I'm sorry I can't do that Dave."

August 15, 2003 prometheus

Forgot to thank Bill W
Thanks for the info on those perfs.

August 15, 2003 prometheus

Dittoes on that link Chip
thanks

August 15, 2003 Dave Price

Chip G
Thanks for providing the link to the Economics History site. Facinating!

Dave Price

August 15, 2003 Bill Weiss

Various
Prometheus; it is called serrate roulette. I have never seen those fake Columbians so thanks (Bill C.) for sharing them. I doubt that any of them would fool anyone!

August 15, 2003 Chip G

Economics History
Seem to have messed up the link. I was trying to point Dave P. to: How Much is That?.

If I mess it up again, it is www.eh.net/hmit/

C.

August 15, 2003 Prometheus

Perf Question = NOIP
I know this stamp has little if any Value But what kind of perfs are these type called/named
HERE

August 15, 2003 Prometheus

Hartmann is still there in Kentucky
and their list of Books just on forgeries is tremendous
if you are already aware of this site sorry, I found it neat and some items are priced under what i found at the Bay
Herelink

August 15, 2003 prometheusI

Stamp books
Today I found some nice MNH stamps in a set of 1994 scott's i bought, and also a copy of a Catalog from Leonard Hartmann Philatelic Biblipole #9 Now I have 60 more books I need to find.

 

August 15, 2003 09:30 Dave Price

Thanks to Bill W, Bill C, and Chip G.
Thanks to all for commenting.

Chip G - That site looks interesting. I'll have to look it up. Special thanks for that!

FWIW - Some one told me once that any thing of value that can be forged has been forged, or will be soon. I just assumed that about the stamps too.

Dave

August 15, 2003 George K

:-)

August 15, 2003 Prometheus

Jim Watson = Thanks
One day I hope to have some of the Caliber of yours.

I keep telling myself I'm only 23 and most of you older guys will
one day part with those one way or the other. LOL

August 15, 2003 07:10 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

"Cost" of the Columbian Series
Chip G The original cost of the complete Columbian mint set I posted before was 12 cents American.

August 15, 2003 Chip G

"Cost" of the Columbian Series
(more) Dave P: using that site, the face value of $16.00 for the Columbians in 1893 would have had the same purchasing power as $318.76 now. About the same cost as a discount airfare from NY to CA.
Chip

August 15, 2003 Chip G

Old Money
Dave Price: If you want a site that will put 'old money' in perspective, I suggest that you wander around the Economics History site. There are numerous calculators there that will help you to find out things like:
- the 5 cents that it cost to mail a letter in the US in 1857 had the purchasing power of $1.09 in 2002.
- an auction lot that sold for $500 in 1970 actually sold for the equivelent of one at $2,290 today.
- a lot more.

Also has historical exchange rates for 40 currencies back to 1913 and the US Dollar/British Pound back to 1791
It is a cool site that I use frequently.
Chip

August 15, 2003 Jim Lawler <jlawler@comteck.com>

Jim L.

August 15, 2003 07:33 Jim Watson

jimbo

PS: BTW, we had a taste of New York last night. A substation blew up and we were without power for an hour and a half. We took the time to sit on the lanai and watch a great lightning display over the gulf in the fringes of Erica.

August 15, 2003 Roger Heath

Columbians
Bill-
That is really a nice little collection. Looks like a French Colony overprint. );>)

Roger

August 15, 2003 23:58 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

Columbian Forgeries
Bill Weiss Here is a collection of complete Columbians I bought in the original sales sheet.

August 14, 2003 Prometheus

Todays Postal Card aug 15 1943 homemade
Nice use of an Index Card mailed for free from somewhere in North Africa ,front and here is the Back

The writer has a apo 520 address but the cancel is a Apo 522
my book on APO's has question marks for Exact dates in Aug of 1943 for the 520 apo but shows Tunisia for the 522

It's after midnight here on the east coast so it is today here already

August 14, 2003 22:29 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

Forged Columbians
Bill Weiss A few gems from my collection are HERE and HERE and HERE and I will post a complete set of really gorgeius ones later.

Bill

August 14, 2003 Prometheus

Thanks = Brian
Was just wondering why so much for a JUNK lot as described by seller, as a non expert thought maybe the CSA was something.

August 14, 2003 Brian R

Prometheus Re: CSA stamp in that lot. I doubt it. That's one of the most abundent issues, horridly toned, and the commonest of cancels, $5 tops IMO. Either there something in those revenues (which I know nothing about), or someone sees the opportunity to fill a bunch of normally moderate slots, with badly damaged, yet real, examples.

August 14, 2003 Bill Weiss

Forged Columbians??
DAVE; The 1893 set, because of the high denominations, as you correctly point out, were out of the financial reach of most collectors, but on the other hand, they stayed readily available and probably as late as the 1920s could be bought at face value. The Columbians, including the high values, are NOT rare. Finding them in top quality mint-NH condition is VERY difficult, but Average/Fine copies are readily available. I am not aware of any forged Columbians. There are lots of reperfs, regums, flawed copies around for sure, but not forged.

August 14, 2003 Dave Price

NOIP
Recently received a list of interesting U.S. stats from 100 yrs. ago. It gave the average wage as 22 cents an hr. If true, and assuming that in 1893 wages were no higher, how many collectors would have been able to buy a high denom Columbian just to add to their album? Given this, any comments on how many mint, forged, uncertified copies there might be circulating out there?

BTW - ootage. As in the ootback or an oopen window.

August 14, 2003 Jim Watson

Oops, wrong board! That's what happens when you have several windows open. (and are not too sharp after the wine with dinner. . . )

August 14, 2003 04:15 Jim Watson

Tudway SFL
Richard,
Nice item! The material I found indicated the Tudways were producing sugar in 1689 and well into the 20th century. May still be business as far as I know.

August 14, 2003 Bob H,

ootage
Eh?

August 14, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 14, 2003 3:45PM Bill Weiss

Massive Power Outage
A massive power outage has struck the eastern US and parts of southern Canada, beginning at 4:14PM (Eastern time). New York City has literally hundreds of thousands of people in the streets and Manhattan is crippled with people who have no way to get anywhere but walk. No power for subway travelers, etc. Has also hit Detroit, Cleveland, parts of Michigan & Ohio, Toronto and parts of Ontario in Canada. Media says it is NOT terrorist-related, and they expect power to be restored within a few hours. It's a hell of a sight to see hindreds of thousands of people on the streets of NYC with nowhere to go! So far, there seems to be no panic and everything remaining calm.

August 14, 2003 Bill Weiss

No #500
Clark; the stamp is an offset printing (#526-528) and can not be a #500. It's the wrong printing plus the wrong color shade!

August 14, 2003 David Moser <stamphick@dospalos.org>

David

August 14, 2003 David Benson

Roger, any idea of his name or phone number,

David Benson

August 14, 2003 Roger Heath

Roger


 

August 14, 2003 Louise

More stamps
This seems a little expensive. Also look at postage costs - OK so may send whole wallet but four dollars?

August 14, 2003 1320 Clark (reperf)

Misidentified as 500 Type Ia
Any opinions about this item being offered as a Type Ia 500?

August 14, 2003 Classicbruce

And then there's another question: "can you be too safe"? Yes, you can. You can spend too much for your needs (a), and (b) some of this protection is either downright annoying/confusing or causes performance hits...

August 14, 2003 Classicbruce

A stamp-related comment for a change: A "grumble" from me...I just received my first APS China circuit, and guess what? Not one single Chinese stamp prior to 1949 out of 11 circuit books. I intended to buy some 50s-70s ROC & PRC material, so that part was okay, but what happened to the older stuff? I didn't see an APS category called pre-1949 China :-) Maybe it's just a fluke circuit?

August 14, 2003 11:20 Dave ("philatarium")

firewalls 2
Forgot to mention that, even though I just have a dial-up connection, it detects and blocks a lot of intrusion attempts. Some days there are none; some days there are a dozen or more from different sources.

I think joynest on the eBay board was asking about the usefulness of a firewall if you have a simple home computer with a dial-up connection. I used to follow the common wisdom that you didn't need one under those circumstances, but after one of those big internet attacks a couple of years ago, I decided to get one as a form of cheap insurance, and, as I said, have been surprised at what it has caught.

Perhaps in this day and age, with so much malicious behavior out there, it is a more prudent choice than it once would have been.

August 14, 2003 11:08 Dave ("philatarium")

firewalls
Just for the sake of completeness, I will say that I have the Norton Internet Security 2003 firewall application, and, from my low-tech user perspective, I've been very pleased with it.

Earlier versions of it were like what was described for Zone Alarm; it interrupted often. The most recent version seems to have smoothed out the interface a lot. It also "wraps around" the Norton Anti-virus app if you use that, too, so it's a pretty smooth usage experience.

Perhaps one of the more knowledgable industry people can say whether or not Norton is viewed as effective as ZA et al.

August 14, 2003 Classicbruce

Anyway, I will also look at some of the more specific antikeyloggers, too, besides trying ZA. But ZA is supposed to be very good at catching keyloggers, from what I've heard, and that's my goal.
 

August 14, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dave P
I think unhappy bunnies are more like slaughtered lambs.
Though they would probably have been gloating gophers if RM had withdrawn stamps.

August 14, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 14, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Quick eBay survey of £2 machin with missing £ sign reveals currently:
14 listed
Highest bid $88.58
All priced (6) under $100 have bids, except 1.
All over $100 have 0 bids.
My advice, don't buy yet!

August 14, 2003 John Cunningham

Zone Alarm
I had frustrations with early versions on Zone Alarm as well. I purchased a new PC about 9 months ago and purchased Zone Alarm Pro and have been very pleased with it. The process involved to customize it to my preferences was quick and simple. I hardly know it is there anymore. You would be surprised how many attempts there are to see if your system can be compromised on any given day.

I also updated XP last night and was able to download and install 14 MB's of updates in under 6 minutes. Cable modems are terrific.

John C

August 14, 2003 Dave P

Machin £2
Jim WS I saw that. It does contradict what a lot of people originally said, whether false info from sellers or a change of heart I don't know. Embarrassing for De La Rue, but a few extra pounds for Royal Mail - and they need it with the possibility of post strikes looming, wonder how much that would knock Ebay? I guess those who paid £100+ for cylinder blocks are not happy bunnies.

August 14, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Duncan
I was in Office Depot yesterday and they had HP scanners on sale for $36, obviously not the best, but no one should have an excuse for not scanning stamp images.

Dave P
I see from Linns that the Royal Mail is not removing the £2 from circulation and so far over 34,000 have been distributed.

August 14, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

HP 1220 printer

A while back we discussed the best printer for making custom album pages larger than 8 1/2 x 11 and the HP1220 was a popular choice. My son tells me it is on sale now for US $330 minus a $100 rebate. That is pretty much in line with the $220 price often seen on eBay. He just recently bought one at work and was delighted to hear that it was a popular choice here.

On another note, the internet seems to be a little erratic today, frequent refreshes are necessary to open sites.

Duncan

"The candle shop burned down a few days ago. We stood around and sang happy birthday to Paolo."

August 14, 2003 Prometheus

NOIP = Inverted Jenny's
Do you think the block of In Jennies in this lot Ebay 2944778241
will be trimmed? reperfed or is the Value in the CSA stamp
BRIAN R did you see this?

August 14, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Gód dæg eall.

Dana
Very pretty stamps.
If you don't mind me adding an aesthetic comment, I would add a center command to the immage such that it appears squarely in your thumbnail boxes.

August 14, 2003 04:12 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a picture postcard from Peking in 1908. The card involved the Imperial Japanese Post Office, the French Military Post Office, and a souvenir maker! It also has one of the nicest postcard compositions you've ever seen.

August 14, 2003 Paolo Bagaglia <bagaglia - at - wanadoo.nl>

Your kind e-mail
Dave F. (it is I, again)
Thank you for your kind e-mail and for your wishes.
CYE, please.
Now, the weather here is less warm (fortunately) today. I will make the travel during the night (hoping that the Gotthard tunnel, if we get there, is not stuck or closed and... fingers crossed).
Good continuation to All,
Paolo

August 13, 2003 20:25 Dana Krueger <dkrueger "at" kfl.com> http://www.kfl.com/images.index
 

Regards, Dana

August 13, 2003 1929 Clark (reperf)

Blasted/ZA
Bruce

I used the current one on available on Zone Labs web site. I do not use it on my system because I have a Linksys firewall/router. I had some problems with ZoneAlarm when I tested about two years ago, but the current version seems much more user friendly having help and a tailered recommendation page accessible from each popup. The bottom half of the page in the free version is a marketing pitch for one of the paid versions. It is possible to have the intrusion attempt alarms remain in the background so that they do not keep popping up.

It is necessary respond to a few popups to give Internet Explorer and your email client permission to access the internet. After a few minutes the programs you normally use can be enabled. The only problem I saw was the use of a formless "web style" interface like the useless home version of the McAfee virus scan software.

August 13, 2003 Bruce

Updates
Jim, this is probably one of the least good times to Windows Update. I just did some optional ones, and they were verrry slow, plus a couple web disconnections (fortunately now it keeps track pretty well, so you don't have to start all over when you re-connect). I'm not even getting much spam today, in fact hardly any (on a + note). I'm attributing most of this to the blasted virus (appropriataly named when you say it like that!) I did visit NAI to read about Blasted, and it can do pretty strong DoS attacks, which may be affecting some web things. Looks like a good night to watch a Schwartzenegger movie! (maybe I'm gonna have to learn to spell his name corrrectly pretty soon)

August 13, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

My apologies for not linking to San Marino site.

I'm not using XP or 2000 but thought it a good time to update windows anyway.
After a 35 minute download, what they don't tell you is that it takes another hour to install (depending on how many updates you have to download.

August 13, 2003 Bruce (Classicbruce)

I'd prefer a "real" firewall (a Zone Alarm upgrade, perhaps) if it's become less-intrusive and easier to use than my old version, which was a real pain - generally it left me guessing a lot of the time whether to "allow entrance" to my PC. The old ZA version often only provided an IP address to decide whether to allow entry much of the time. Not very user-friendly, and it had constant intrusive popups asking me "do I want to allow etc IP address in" (which sometimes I had to do some quick research on to decide if it was okay. And I'm a techie by profession, though of the network variety, and I don't deal with my workplace firewalling, certainly no expert on them). But if it gave *me* (a network Admin) that much trouble, I couldn't even imagine a non-techie using my old ZA version. So, what I'm wondering, are newer versions a lot more "usable," would you say? I suppose I could do a trial, but thought I'd ask opinions first.

August 13, 2003 17:47 COVERWIZ

Libya, Lockerbie Families Sign Compensation Deal
One much, by contributers to this board and the eBay one, maligned dealer family from the Mid-Atlentic will benefit greatly from this deal. Wonder if they will stay in the stamp business...

August 13, 2003 16:37 Dave ("philatarium")

Paolo: If you see this before you leave, CYE. Thanks! Otherwise, bon voyage et bonnes vacances!

August 13, 2003 1608 Clark (reperf)

Blasted! (virus)
There is a free download of the Zone Alarm firewall software available, that should prevent this particular virus from accessing your home PC. It provides a second layer of protection, particularly against yet to be discovered "buffer overrun" problems in the MicroSoft Win XP/2000/NT software. Even if the current patches are installed, your system may still be vulnerable to as yet undocumented (or undiscovered) problems.

After I installed Zone Alarm at a friends house last weekend, the first intrusion attempt from the internet was detected less than five minutes later. Fortunately, the patches had already been installed. Having a software or hardware firewall may prevent having to find out whether the patches actually work.

August 13, 2003 Bruce Campbell

BTW, I'm in Maryland US, and yesterday the entire state Motor Vehicle Dept was infected and were closed all day. It's not a real damaging virus (as in destroying files), I gather, but it "took out" the entire MV's network, whatever sort of actions it does, it can disable a network pretty easily.

August 13, 2003 Paolo Bagaglia <Bagaglia at wanadoo.nl>

anonymous id's
Dave F.
I hope that the problem can be solved without the need of moving to another site and I modestly offer you my full support when I will be back.

I am so sorry you debated to delete my anonymous post (under the pseudonym "Anonymous Bosch") , which did make sense and not in Aramaic but in English. It happens that in that website, from which someone copied, there was a bad mistake in a name. I can never forgive mistakes, once they've been notified.


Paolo (leaving for holidays from now)
 

August 13, 2003 David Benson

Dave, IMO the only way to resolve the question whether there should be sign in or not is to ask the users that use their names or Ebay ID's to vote,

David Benson

August 13, 2003 sveiki!

I have no hard feelings towards anyone. Step forward, please. {:o)

August 13, 2003 Angelo Maria R.

Paolonon so se ho da imparare di piu' dai francobolli o dalla meccanica dei fluidi,molte delusioni in entrambi i campi,btw my name and middle name made a clear surname

August 13, 2003 Paolo Bagaglia

No! Il problema è di meccanica razionale applicata all'idrodinamica, avendo isolato una particella fluida (punto di vista lagrangiano) ed applicando le equazioni cardinali in forma non semplificata od avendo determinato piccole superficie di controllo a ridosso della pala (di profilo Munk 7) tra qui calcolare i bilanci energetici. La soluzione al problema posto non la trovi nè nel Citrini-Noseda nè nel Marchi Rubatta, te lo posso garantire. Infatti, che io sappia non è nota matematicamente. Comunque se la trovi rendimelo noto, perchè mi serve. Paolo
 

August 13, 2003 14:47 Dave (moderator)

anonymous id's
Paolo: So good to see you back here. And thanks for letting me know about the "Bosch" post, as I was debating about deleting it.

I don't know if you looked in here over the weekend, but there was much discussion about this issue (some of it from me).

To go to a different software package will require moving to another site. That's not such a bad thing, but I don't want to do it so quickly that we end up not making the right decisions for the long-term. I would be prepared to make this move once in the near-term, but it cannot happen immediately.

However, is still bothers me on principle that this would be needed. Just today, I was on a vast restaurant/culinary website, which does not require registration, etc. I see no problem with strange posts there, and it may be because the moderators (there are several, and it has some products for sale, so it's not a volunteer effort) stay right on top of it.

Thus, I am prepared for the interim to take a low-tech solution to the problem and just delete posts that don't make sense to me. I have been watching the board carefully all this week, and some posts have been pulled. But I'm trying not to be provocative about it either, and watching to see if some threads develop, such as the one today.

Although I used to be able to read Italian somewhat from the days when I used to be fluent in French (and many years of Latin before that), please feel free to let me know if something inappropriate shows up here in a language that you know.

In general, the board is much calmer than it was, and I hope it will continue to stay focused on philatelic topics.

And here's the link to the culinary site I was mentioning above. Click through to see any of the regional boards in the US. (It's actually a very good site.)

www.chowhound.com

August 13, 2003 Paolo Bagaglia

Scusa, ma qui è lecito scrivere in inglese! Non vedo che diamine c'entri il "puntiglio", per quanto abbia palle da vendere (sto' progredendo al riguardo). È una chat board internazionale, di conseguenza è ovvio che la lingua dovrebbe essere un qualcosa che si approssima all'inglese! Rivela la tua identità! Almeno provaci, no?

Paolo

August 13, 2003 .

uhm..the use of Citrini-Noseda can help for solve the problem?

August 13, 2003 Paolo Bagaglia

The topic of anonimity of posts was brought up some weeks ago, precisely in mid June, by me. Any development on that topic would just be welcome, having kept in mind that the basic requirement for a honest discussion at deeper level is certainly not anonimity... unless you send me the deterministic solution of the three dimensional problem in applied mechanics of fluid to the sub-sonic (simplification) motion of a viscous fluid around an airfoil profile NACA Munk 7 (simplification), from any point of view, lagrangian or eulerian, then, upon verification, I would also accept anonimity ;-).
Paolo

August 13, 2003 .

oh che palle questo puntiglio con l'inglese!

August 13, 2003 Paolo Bagaglia <bagaglia apenstaart wanadoo.nl>

San Marino
I am back for these two posts, before time, I confess, but for a good reason. Anonymous Bosch's post was mine. It's referred to Jeroen Bosch, but I fully understand your deficiency in understanding humour (along with some other natural deficiencies of bigger entity).
I thought it would have been convenient to honour the website from which the text about San Marino was copied, it is this.

Stampkiller and your other various aliases, I think I know who you are (name, surname and address -- I never revealed it to anybody because I am discrete regarding privacy matters) unless there is somebody else who knows you well enough who's playing your part.
Please, reveal yourself at once!!! It would be so much convenient for you and you'd be likely to gain some respect from the others. If you remain stampkiller or antonius-crap or whatever there is just a remote chance anybody will take you seriously (even smaller than the chance I got revealing my real identity in first instance).

Ambassodor of philately: Larry v D-- sorry, I had not read that! Is that for REAL??? )or am I having visions) You are on the wrong path with philately. I tolerate you sales list but I modestly think you cannot stand as an example of anything in philately.

Paolo
 

August 13, 2003 .

Anonymous Bosch ..i already know the source of J-W-S


 

August 13, 2003 Anonymous Bosch

San Marino
Barbavara not Barbavera!

August 13, 2003 sveiki!

louise so, why did you leave then? {;o) *hehe*
I'm there now.

August 13, 2003 Louise

Sveiki - update - site loaded ok this time.

August 13, 2003 Louise

Sveiki - am around, honest, but having difficulties loading the site.

Too tired to make my usual comments - busy day behind me and in front of me and need a cup of coffee!

August 13, 2003 .

JimImages have been sent yet, thanks for your time

August 13, 2003 .

J-W-Syou right...so i used my primary e-mail address scanned for virus the attachment twice. Anonymous anymore....

August 13, 2003 12:27 Jim Watson

Jim W-S,
Good thought! But I'll live dangerously. . . I guess.

August 13, 2003 12:19 jim Watson <nfn05917 "at" naples.net>

San Marino Postal History
Stampkiller,The 1951 cover might be worth a try. Send it on. The 1918 card might be more interesting but the post date is not legible. You don't what day to put it up. If nothing else, I'll put the 1951 FDC up and you can do a writeup of your own on August 20th. I'll give you a reminder.
BTW, I'm Jim. "We used to say, I'm not Mister, I work for a living."
Also, your selected id does not encourage a friendly response, IMO.

Jim W-S,
Nice bit on San Marino postal history.

August 13, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Mr. stampkiller,
do you not find it somewhat incongruous, and I'm sure jimbo can answer for himself, that a person who wishes to remain anonymous and prefers not to link to images, should offer to email image files in the middle of a board conversation regarding the perils of computer viruses sent by email?

August 13, 2003 .

reciver = receiver

August 13, 2003 stampkiller

Mr. Watson, i have found two covers of St.Marino send "this mounth", one dated 08-20- 1951 and a second one dated 08-??-1918.The first one is an FDC of Sassone A98 sent to Paris and re-addresed Nouey Ville because of the reciver moved there, the second one is a postcard send to Germany from San Marino with a mixed franking of SM and italian stamps.Sorry i prefer do no put a link for them, so if yuo are interested i can send you same images.

August 13, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

By special request, San Marino postal history, purloined and edited:

Public postal services were introduced for San Marino on 7 October 1607, with a "Postillion who will go to collect and carry the letters to the Post Office at Rimini". Two centuries later, in 1833, the Republic’s own proper post office was opened in a palazzo which overlooked the Pianello. However, the mail was franked, eventually, only in the Rimini office, first Papal, then Sardinian and finally Italian, up to 1852 with the simple handstamp Affrancata and after that with postage stamps.

It was only on 1 January 1863, when new postal regulations came into force in Italy and established that a double tax was payable on unfranked letters, that San Marino decided to provide itself with postage stamps : Italian stamps were therefore obtained in Rimini according to need. When the first postal treaty with Italy was signed on 7 February 1865 San Marino decided to carry on with the use of Italian stamps, at least "for now", since a restricted postal traffic did not yet justify the production of their own stamps. Ten years later, however, the situation had changed.
On 2 March 1877 a postal convention between partners of equal status was signed, as a result of which the two administration retained "for themselves and in its entirety, the tax received by their respective offices" for the franking of letters ; a franking which must "be represented by the postage stamps in use in the respective states". It was thus that San Marino became the first of the small European states to provide itself with its own stamps. They came into use on 1 August 1877, a month later than had been foreseen in the Convention, because of delays in the delivery of supplies on the part of the Italian government printing works.
It was felt that the 120th anniversary should celebrate in a very different way the people who conceived and promoted these stamps : individuals known but only to specialists in the field and who have never before been remembered with a stamp.
The first is Count Giovanni Battista Barbavera di Gravellona, who became Director-General of the Sardinian Post Office in 1859, which later became the Italian Post Office, a position he held until 1 February 1880, as well as being a Senator of the Kingdom. His signature appears at the foot of both the postal conventions between San Marino and Italy, alongside those of the two great Councillors and Plenipotentiaries of the Republic, Count Cibrario in 1865 and Senator Vigliani in 1877.
The second is Enrico Repettati, chief engraver for the Officina Carte Valori in Turin (which appears in the background of the stamp), who designed and engraved, or at the very least oversaw the production of, all the postal values issued by San Marino in the 19th century.
The third is Otto Bickel, the active and often unjustly criticised German dealer in stamps, fossils (my hero!) and virtually anything that could be collected, who resided in San Marino between 1891 and 1894, diffusing knowledge and promoting the collection of the Republic’s postal values through the multi-lingual monthly San Marino-Philatelist and his original illustrated envelopes.
Last but no means least is Alfredo Reffi, Sammarinese stamp dealer and publisher of many distinguished postcards (one of which appears as the background of the stamp), and who was many times a Captain-Regent, who promoted the stamps of San Marino in a intelligent manner, at first with his sales lists and then in the 1930s through an elegant and well-documented catalogue.
 

August 13, 2003 Louise

Spam
Yeah, I got that one too, offering me GBP 11m - thought it was my lucky day...

August 13, 2003 Bob H.

spam
Got three offers of wealth for helping people get money out of Africa in last week - one only $3,000,000 - pikers!

August 13, 2003 Jim Watson

Spam
Noip,
Did anyone else out there get spam from a Mrs. Sankoh in Dabai?

August 13, 2003 10:20 Jim Watson

San Marino Postal History
Stampkiller,
My approach is to post a cover each day which was postmarked on that day at some time in the past. I like the covers to have adequate scans and readable postmarks. I also like originations, destinations, and usages that are out of the ordinary. I generally prefer covers before World War II. My selections are limited to the cover images I've saved. I've accumulated ca. 3000 images (including compressions) which probably averages less than four per day to choose from. Unfortunately, not many San Marino covers come up in the gold pan. Can you put some up that I might be able to use?

August 13, 2003 Dave P

Blasted Virus
Dave Philatarium (too many darn Dave's here), you scared me into doing another scan - all clear. I think the problem with this one is it can spread without email. When I saw the news originally I did a Norton update, usually they do everything on a Wednesday, but this one got special treatment and was available from Monday. They are treating it as serious - level 4. I also downloaded the latest security patch (I run XP) as soon as I got the alert. A lot of systems have been infected, a company I deal with was off line for 4 hours this morning while they were disinfecting, and I suspect many Ebayers will be hit judging by the number who caught the Bugbear worm.

August 13, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

W32Blaster virus

Thanks for the warnings about this virus Dave! After reading about it I offered to email my son a link to the patch so he could get it at work. He works for the city. He thought their computer gurus would handle it, so he passed on the offer.

Of course their system got infected.

The patch for Win XP 32 bit is KB823980-x86-ENU.exe and it's just under 1 1/4 megs, easy even on a dial up connection.

A computer savvy friend tells me this one is serious. I see Microsoft does mention the safety of a firewall for this bug, but I'd recommend the patch too for sure.

Duncan

August 13, 2003 9:00 Dave ("philatarium")

worm
George: I bet that's right. I know that there are some versions that are not impacted by this. The one I'm particularly aware of that is not affected is Windows ME. I used to have that until I "upgraded" to XP, and ME is still the one my friends whom I kind of watch out for computer-wise have. (Diagram that sentence!)

August 13, 2003 Bob H.

current worm
George,
that's my understanding - the version of this worm is not backward compatible...

August 13, 2003 George K

The new worm
Anyome know anything definitive about this? I have a laptop with Windows 98. The Microsoft site has patches for a number of versions, but not 98. Is this one naturally immune because it's too primitive or what?

August 13, 2003 8:02 Dave ("philatarium")

Microsoft worm
Just to share a personal experience. I have Norton Anti-virus set to auto-update, and, coupled with Norton Internet Security always on, I thought I was pretty well covered against all those potential threats out there. But I decided to run NAV last night for a full system scan. I would have bet good money that there's no way it would have found anything.

Well, you can tell by the way this story is going that it did find a virus. I was stunned. It has never found anything ever from a system scan because, I thought confidently, it finds everything when it scans the incoming email, etc. and the definitions are always current. Goes to show ...

So, for those of you so inclined, it might be worth it to first make sure your definitions are current and then run a scan, especially in light of this new widespread worm floating around out there.

August 13, 2003 stamp killer

Mr Watson..can you post anything about St.Marino postal history?
thank a lot

August 13, 2003 0630 Prometheus

Today's Post Card 13 Aug 1932=kans ovpt
This little post card of the washington monument at night
is my only used (i think real) copy of a Kans overprint.
Here is SCAN
from Ruby on Vaction in the East to Miss. Erma Shepperd in Oklahoma City.

August 13, 2003 Jim Lawler <jlawler@comteck.com>

Jim L.

August 13, 2003 04:08 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a registered cover from Tahiti to Austria in 1928. It has lots of colorful stamps.

August 12, 2003 Roger Heath

I'll Bite
I'm in a Mac household and would have thought worms should be found in Apples, but so far the genetic characteristics are performing flawlessly.

Roger

August 12, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 12, 2003 7:17 pm Steve Taylor (aka philcomp) http://www.timeblaster.com/tbeindex.shtml
 

MSBlast(er)
Just got finished cleaning this abomination off my system.

I think MicroSoft has created enough security holes in their Windows operating systems that they out to be required to post a significant 'reward' for information leading to the apprehension of some of these worm and virus creators (a la Qusay and Uday...DEAD OR ALIVE!). They certainly could afford it (sitting on $38 billion in cash).

August 12, 2003 Rob Faux

pink rose
Bill The pink rose shade is likely the pinkish variety that occured in (I think)somewhere in the 1864 printings. Specialists tend to tell the difference between the 1861 pinks and 1864 pinks based on the clarity of impression and paper type.

I assume that's where that will go...

August 12, 2003 Bill Weiss

KEN; Nope, sorry don't have one, and can't say I've ever seen one - at least that I was aware that it was a distinct listed color shade. All of these #279b minor color varieties came about I guess within the last 5 years or so as a result I think of teriffic research by a few dedicated folks who finally got Scott to list some of them.
Color in philately is not a subject that sparks very many folks. Most collectors are happy to fill a space in their album with ONE stamp, and to stray into lots of color shades doesn't appeal to them.
One color shade I got Scott to finally list is a PINK-ROSE shade for #65. For years it irritated me to see LOTS of 3cent 1861s which when looked at carefully with a good glass revealed a tinge of pinkness, but not enough to have any expert feel it qualified as any of the listed PINK colors; #64,64a,64b, yet I damn well knew I was seeing some pink. I finally showed some examples to Scott and they listed it. Now the problem is getting the philatelic world to recognize it when they see it! The first question I got was from Randy Shoemaker - how will I know it when someone submits it? While I was able to show him an example - to my eyes - I told him I thought they (PSE and/or ANY expert committee) would pretty much have to develope their own criteria for defining it, and since PSE has a good reference collection of 3cent 1861 shades that's what they will do.
To me, it's any 3cent 1861 that you can see some pink in, yet not enough to call it any of the pink shades, thus....pink rose!

August 12, 2003 18:33 Ken S.

The one I wouldn't mind seeing (if you have one) is the brown-orange (279Bi). Every one I've seen claiming to be that looks like a changeling to me ("oxidized" and/or chemically altered)... Maybe I'm just too harsh! (skeptical?) I'd love to see a certified example but haven't found one yet... BTW, it catalogs a lot less than the 279Bc, but I'd guess it's (much) more scarce (either that, or I'm just too picky and keep discarding/ignoring genuine brown-orange examples without knowing it :-)

August 12, 2003 Bill Weiss

ADDIE
This is just an amusing post to pass a moment or two. The other day when this board was all agog with back-and-forth about this "addie" clown, I just didn't have the heart to tell you all, that my WIFE'S name is.....................ADDIE! (No silly remarks please!).

August 12, 2003 David Benson

Formosa
Christo, re your Formosa Horse and Dragon forgery. The originals are listed in Gibbons Specialised as s.g. C5-6. The originals were recess printed by Bradbury Wilkinson and are exceptionally well produced. Your fake is a litho from around 1900.

David Benson

August 12, 2003 Rob Faux

registration
I don't want to work.

here is a cover that shows 13 cent rate with registration. The small pen marking Reg #25 at bottom left gives evidence of registration.

here
is one showing a handstamped registration marking.

here is a 15 cent rate to Germany with 5 cent overseas + 10 cent registration

And another
from a small town with just a pen marking with "no 18" at center top.

Finally a fun one with lots of 1 cent stamps paying registration.

This bypass brought to you by the number 13 and the letter R.
 

August 12, 2003 Bill Weiss

1889 Registry
Rob is right, in 1889 it was 10cents, not 8cents (went back to 8cents in 1893 when the 8cent Columbian was issued and then stayed 8cents until the 10cent Registry stamp was issued). My offhand guess without seeing the item is that the sender merely overpaid the rate by 2cents.

KEN; If you want me to send you the 279Bcs for you to look at, I will gladly do so. Let me know. We both know how tough it is to put color into words, particularly the reds.

August 12, 2003 Bill Weiss

279Bc
KEN; Truthfully, neither of those you just scanned looks like 279Bc, but what that tells me, since your unedited scan looks DIFFERENT to me than the one on Riny's site, is that it's obviously my screen. No, we have never adjusted it, and I doubt that either me or my wife would know how! I am truly computer-stupid - but I know stamps! Now, back to the 279Bc. The ones I have seen (certified) are a shade (in my words) of a lovely sahade of rose with a tinge of pink and within the pink is a tinge of purple/blue, yet I would not say that it is the same as your right-hand scan.
GOLF - While it's true I can hit a wedge 150 yards, at the other end of the spectrum, I can't hit any woods at all, other than the most lofted (like a 7-wood or 9-wood)!

PATRICK'S COVERS; Item #1 is undoubtably a 10cents + 3cents Registry + First class usage, item #2 is as Rob pointed out 8cents Registry + 5cents UPU rate, Item #3 is a Railroad postmark (probably Denver & Rio Grand/Western), and the last item is not uncommon.

August 12, 2003 Rob Faux

Patrick Some help on rates can be found here: rates by year
Simple to follow, by no means complete - but a good starter.

Looks like the 8 cent registry fee was in 1874 - Jun of 1875. So, that likely dates your Ohio letter as a registry fee + regular 3 cent delivery - especially since the stamps are from that period.

Unfortunately, I see the registry fee is 10 cents in 1889 - I don't know if the rate differed for registration out of country. So, my earlier analysis on the Bremen letter is in some doubt.

That's what I can do for you...sorry it couldn't be more helpful.

Rob

August 12, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 12, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

jim & jim from jim
When it happened to me, I got the failed email message before I got my own send an an email message.
It has to be an aol/eBay screw-up and not something deliberate.
I'm guessing eBay is misdirecting aol messages.

August 12, 2003 Rob Faux

Patrick I am at work, so no references available.

I seem to recall that in 1889 you would have 5 cents for the overseas rate and 8 cents for a registration fee. So, that would account for the 13 cents on the Bremen cover. Are there pencil markings which is a series of numbers (registration number)? That would confirm that suspicion.

The Ohio item may well also be registration - with 10 cent registration fee and 3 cent mailing.

The Colorado postcard may appeal to postmark or railroad collectors, but I don't know what else to say about it.

and Bob knows the parcel post better than I. :)

Rob

 

August 12, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 12, 2003 16:32 Ken S.

Riny's (unedited) scan is on the left. I made another copy and pasted it at right. On that stamp, I changed the "red" to "carmine" and added "blue" (to give the hue I associate with 279Bc's). Tell me which one you think looks more like a 279Bc...

August 12, 2003 4:28 pm Jim (jaywild)

Jim
 

August 12, 2003 Roger Heath

Re email problem
I have had no problem contacting sellers with open auctions. That said, what I have had problems with is going through the "View Sellers Other Auctions". I use this frequently when I find something I like or seems to have potential. Once on the sellrs auction page I click on something I wish to view only to get "invalid item". So since I now know what this seller is selling I go back to my search page and find the desription there, and click. Bingo, not invalid after all. There appear to be many things not happeing via the IBM intermediate page that went into effect a couple of weeks ago.

Roger

August 12, 2003 16:17 Ken S.

Unfortunately, I've learned not to trust scans at all when it comes to subtle hues (I suppose our "argument" is really moot -- you need to examine that one in person, not rely on a scan.) Anyone who has tried to scan a Scott 64 or 64a knows there's something about those red/pink/carmine/rose shades that results in very poor color reproduction...

August 12, 2003 Bob Hohertz

postal rates

The postcard with the one-cent parcel post isn't too unusual, but they are collectible. Those stamps did not last long for their particular use, and became available for general use such as your card.

August 12, 2003 15:55 Patrick Lemon <plemon@paladigm.com>

Postal Rates
Rob - unfortunately I am at home and my scanner is at work. The Bremen cover has numerous date stamps from February 1889. Neither the Parcel Post or Ohio items have a date. The Colorado postcard has a September 1925 date.

August 12, 2003 Rob Faux

Patrick Are there dates on some of these. That often helps explain the rates and amounts on the piece.

I wouldn't be surprised if a couple are registered mail pieces. Some markings will be done in pencil and crayon which give hints as to what happened.

Can you scan?

August 12, 2003 15:39 Patrick Lemon <plemon@paladigm.com>

US Postal Rates
NOIP - I have four items of postal history that I am trying to make sense of. The first is a cover containing Scott numbers 158 and 161, totalling 13 cents in postage. There is no return address and it was addressed to Ohio. There are no ancillary markings on the envelope to explain the $.13.

The second is a cover addressed to Bremen, Germany. It also has a total of $.13 in postage, consisting of a #289 and on a U330 envelope. The envelope has a Chi. & Minn. RPO postmark.

The third is a postcard cancelled 9/7/1925 with a circular stamp that reads "Top of the World, Tennessee Pass, Colo., D. & R.G.W.R.R."

The last is a post card with a $.01 parcel post stamp cancelled at Sault St. Marie, MI. No date.

I welcome any insight or comments about any of these as I am terribly ignorant regarding postal history. In particular, is the parcel post use rare?

Thanks

August 12, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 12, 2003 Bob Hohertz

fraud???
Jim,
How did you try to send the first one? Just clicking on the user's ID? If so, somebody sent me an e-mail that way today. If you tried Ask seller a question it may be another tech "improvement" that is meaningless since you can always click on the ID to send one.

August 12, 2003 3:20 PM Jim (jaywild)

August 12, 2003 sveiki!

Louise Does the word "log-in" mean anything to you?

August 12, 2003 Louise

Czech
Damn! My half-baked schemes for getting rid of my duplicates foiled again! Though I suppose if I get enough I could always offer them to the local dealers, who hardly ever seem to have anything interesting in at all (except the Slovakian National Uprising block, which if I can persuade an English student to pay me for talking at them for two hours might well be within my grasp, if I can manage to go without food for two or three days...).

August 12, 2003 David Benson

Dunkin Donuts, if I was going to make a choice based on the evidence, I would say thumbs down. Too many negatives and unlikely the story of the find is true as unlikely for them to be found in Hawaii, a New England find might have been more plausible.

David Benson

August 12, 2003 Louise

Ah right, yes...sorry. But I seem to have uncovered something, eh, Jim?

Greg - how did the auction go for those Japanese stamps?

August 12, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

In the Czech lot, does

"It is our policy not to give information to one bidder without giving such information to all potential bidders. We have provided sufficient information within the lot description so informed bids can be made."

This mean they won't answer emails?

August 12, 2003 Greg Ioannou <gregioannou@rogers.com>

Czech blocks
Loise They are all plate # blocks, which are a bit unusual. And that lot still doesn't have any bids, so my guess is they aren't a really hot item. Nice, though -- I'm almost tempted to bid on them myself. Always have had a soft spot for Czech stuff.

August 12, 2003 sveiki!

Louise That's OK. {:o) I'm taking many things very relatively. BTW... I can see you where there if you get my drift. {:o)

August 12, 2003 David Benson

Christo, re the Formosa, tis a forgery of the unissued Horse and Dragon,

see,

http://perso.club-internet.fr/klaseboe/formo.htm


David Benson

August 12, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 12, 2003 David Benson

Christo, did I hear my name mentioned. Sorry, it is not a local, just a Revenue. Even in perfect condition it is not worth much.

David Benson

August 12, 2003 Christo van Zyl

NOIP Anybody know what to make of this Formosa stamp? I ca't find it in my catalogues. If you can, please let me have o SG or Scott Number and where to look! Or is it a Fake?
Formosa_Stamp

 

August 12, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Canton_Stamp
 

August 12, 2003 Louise

Are these really worth all that? I've got a feeling I could put that together from my Czsl duplicates at home if I wanted to. Maybe the ones I've got aren't mint, but I can't remember them being anything special in the catalogue, and a lot of the ones that are in my album are sets like that.

August 12, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Grinnells

What do ya think gang?

Fake or real?

The other board had a brief mention of the stamps, and here's a link to an interesting portion of the study of the Grinnell Missionaries, where the postmarks are discussed.

I think it was Linns that had a recent article about the provenance provided by the Grinnell side of the issue, very interesting. Hope we get an opinion soon on these stamps. My guess would be, if the paper and ink are correct they'll be found to be genuine.

Duncan

>{{{{*>

 

August 12, 2003 Rob Faux

If the guy currently leading for the fake grill 99 wins it, you can bet it won't show up for resale as a genuine. (lechatte)

August 12, 2003 Rob Faux

Dave I am not opposed to registering, etc.

In fact, let me point out that there is no reason that any privately created and maintained discussion area need be open to any poster. While this goes contrary to the desire that we be open to all opinions, etc... there should be NOTHING wrong with desiring a conversation that is closed to some.

And, of course, if you go about the logging in method, there is still a likelihood that those who are really motivated and stuck with too much time on their hands can sign up and create 'noise', get kicked out, and sign up again...

The real issue here, Dave, is what you are willing to do. It is NOT fair to you to add extra stress for something you are doing in hopes of allowing free exchange of ideas and conversation. Choose whatever you need to choose in order to make this a more pleasant and easy to maintain experience for you - and I will support (whatever that's worth).

Paul/svieki! Hi! Haven't heard from you in a while - of course, I haven't been lurking much! :) Dave Paul has some good expertise if you want/need it.

Rob

August 12, 2003 Louise

Sveiki, a long way down the board by now but no, I don't drink beer at all...that was posted by someone else who shall remain anonymous. I didn't reply to it (directly) because I didn't want to set him off again and I hoped that people would understand that it wasn't my style at all...just shows I suppose...

 

August 12, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Greg IoannouGood to hear from you again!! The wine I must admit, is new to me!! Also see that you are listing under a new handle. Is your address still the same as last, I am about ready to send you some Oz states, kangaroos and KG heads!
Christo

August 12, 2003 Richard Matta

Valuation
I was reading the comments on valuing stamps for IRS purposes. I agree with Richard F - as with anything else (e.g., cars and blue book), you can claim the book value as fair market, but the IRS is not required to accept it. I once had to prove the value of a painting to the IRS for a client (the client had to pay a penalty tax on the "use" of the painting as a pre-requisite for transferring the painting from one pension plan to another) - there were only 3 experts in the country the IRS would accept to value it and it took about 3 months to reach agreement.

August 12, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Christo

I managed to get some of them on the site already.

This is out of date, but I can't update at the moment.
I wish they'd leave the site name alone.

August 12, 2003 Richard Matta

Fakes
Here's a piece of cr*p being sold as a fake, but still drawing the bidders. Several days to go and the bid is already way above what the stamp is worth, being defaced with a fake grill. One can only wonder whether the buyers hope to turn around and resell it as genuine, or put it in an album and pretend it is?

August 12, 2003 10.16 am Colin Judd UK (xzephyr) http://mysite.freeserve.com/GB_Special_Issues/
 

Colin

August 12, 2003 10:04 Burton SMith <bridge2@erols.com>

Good Morning/Afternoon to all!

To anyone that can help -- I have a few Italian stamps with King Victor Emmanuel III on them that have an overprint
"Alberghi?" and have "Tassa Di Bollo-Lusso E Scambri" and have a value on them. Are these a type of revenue stamp?
Thanks in advance!

August 12, 2003 Ken C <kchrist499>

That photo reminds me of my youth; we spent two weeks every summer in Minoqua and fished most of the lakes up there. Never did boat a muskie, but had a few strikes. If I could catch fish like that, I'd give up stamps altogether!

August 12, 2003 nomad55

Duncan....I was wondering exactly the same thing.

August 12, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Why sales drop in the summer

Ken C and with a tip of the hat to David Moser here's one reason sales may slump in the summer...

Duncan has gone fishing.

Oh, and Daphetid are you an old model railroad fan?

Duncan

August 12, 2003 Dave P

Although I agree in principal to the idea of registering to post to the board, how would it work. If it required an initial manual check and approval then it seems an awful lot of work for Dave F, seeing as this is a labour of love. If it were automated I am not sure it would help much - the Ebay board requires registration and look at the recent drivel there. It seems to be another version of the graffiti culture, have some "fun", don't care about others. Registration might also scare off the occasional casual poster, especially if the board appeared to become too clubby. Hmmmm who would be a moderator!

August 12, 2003 .

Larry..yep..and you answered in a second..strange;-)

August 12, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

ken
To keep this board somewhat sane.
I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Knowledgable buyers are still present during the dog days of summer, but in terms of realizing good prices, you need them to be opposed by the casual buyers. Unless you are lucky and get a couple of knowledgable buyers going after the same item. The summer is generally not the time to try to sell off your prime merchandise.

Let me add my name to those who would be unopposed to registering in order to post.

August 12, 2003 Daphetid

I thought Dunkin Donuts owned the world

August 12, 2003 Larry

stamplover, you added a post over me with uncorrect information and the way you react now says enough to me.

August 12, 2003 8:24AM Ken C. <kchrist499@aol.com>

I've been selling off my US collection since March. I was a bit concerned about continuing through the summer months, but so far my auctions are doing as well as, or better than earlier in the year. Its just speculation, but I think that only the casual bidder/collector takes time off for summer vacation. The knowledgeable philatelists are buying all year long, and paying good prices for good material. Does anyone care to comment about his/her personal experiences?

August 12, 2003 Stamplover

Larry

who are you for talk to me in this way? are you the owner of the world?

August 12, 2003 Greg Ioannou <gregioannou@rogers.com>

Seyssel
Hi, Christo! I don't know anything at all about French-Swiss cross-border rates, but I didn't even have to look up Seyssel!

August 12, 2003 Larry

Mr. Stamplover, if you don't know what an Ebay Ambassador is or do, do not make such comments. Be sure that your postings are acurate instead of shouting things without any background study of what you're talking about.

August 12, 2003 .

Jim L.

August 12, 2003 Stamplover

Fakes
Problem is that people still buy this type of
crap.

What's even worse is that the seller is an eBay 'Ambassador' for the Dutch stamp community! This guy has to give advise to the Dutch novice stamp collectors, how to start collecting stamps !!!

August 12, 2003 03:50 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a cover from Hawaii in 1898. This cover was mailed on the date on which the United States formally annexed Hawaii 105 years ago.

August 12, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Ferney
Roger, you haven't got a map showing the railway line? I am looking for the station Seyssel, where this envelope was dropped in the box. Then it must have travelled via train to Ferney?

August 12, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cross Border Rate
Hi Roger, I hoped that you would pick this up! Thanks for the info so far. If the cross border rate was 2o centimes, then why would this be an insufficient franked envelope. Taking into account the 30 c tax, can one infer that the rate should have been 40 centimes (i.e. 15 c too little multiplied by two?).
Anybody out there know what the rate between France-Switzerland was in 1872?
I don't know much about cross-border rates - was there certain treaties etc in place, determining rates. Could stamps from Switzerland be used on the French side etc. etc.
oger, could you please also briefly explain to me the Geneve CDS - e.g. what the abbreviations are for, etc. I presume the Roman numerals following the date slug is the time?
Regards

Christo

August 12, 2003 Roger

Ferney
Disregard the first sentnce below - 25 centimes it is.
Another Ferney map.
Roger

August 12, 2003 Roger Heath

Cross Border rate?
Christo -
I don't know the denomination of the French stamp. But here are three Swiss examples which I have still not yet received but all went to Fernex (Ferney). The top two are from Geneve and are the cross border rate of 20 centimes instead of 40. The bottom is the regular Lausanne, Switzerland to France rate of 40 centimes. Fernex is said to be 8 km from Geneve, just across the border. I hope this helps a little. I believe the red 2 is a Geneva delivery route marking.

Roger





 

August 12, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Sorry, something went wrong with the links, here are the two that isn't loading.BR>
front markings

back markings
 

August 12, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Looking at the time between writing of letter and arrival in Geneve, it appears that Fernex must be very close to the Swiss border.


Although the stamp has got a filing fold through it, to me still a nice piece to use to learn/get acquainted with some aspects of French Postal History!
Thanks for looking and your help, Christo.
 

August 11, 2003 2141 Clark (reperf)

Microscopes for Philately
Chuck Harm,

Edmund Industrial Optics sells a 25x magnifier with a measuring reticule, almost a necessity if you are interested in measuring perforation holes, etc. The APS also sells somewhat less expensive magnifiers to members but without the direct measurement capability. I still use a small 15x magnifier on a swivel base because I can carry it around in my pocket.

August 11, 2003 David Moser <stamphick@dospalos.org>

David

August 11, 2003 Roger Heath

Dornier
David -
Here's another
example similar to mine rated 5Fr 10. Mine is 5Fr.30. Going out to dinner.
Roger
 

August 11, 2003 Roger );>)

);>) again!

August 11, 2003 David Benson

Roger,

have a look here, he has one at 135 Pounds.

http://www.berman.co.uk/acatalog/Postal_History_SWITZERLAND_408.html

David Benson

August 11, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Fishing
When can I expect you, Jim?

Dunc

August 11, 2003 Roger Heath

Switzerland Card
Here's a philatelic air mail card that I bought just to get the stamps. I received it today and it turns out to have been on the target=_blank>Dornier X transatlantic flight. Does anyone have a clue what this might be valued at and its scarcity?
Roger

August 11, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 11, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Teasing / Taunting

My conscience is bothering me. Do I tease too much when I visit here?

If I do, please forgive me. Its the Wisconsin way.

If a person comes up here to fish with me and doesn't have much skill, that's fine. If I am catching trout and he is not, I may give him my favorite lure to try, knowing full well that it will likely be lost to the logs and rocks on the stream bottom.

On the other hand if a person puts on airs and brags of fishing skills he obviously doesn't have, I may pat him on the back and tell him what a fine fisherman he is, but I will be dropping a few sinkers down the back of his waders at the same time. And when he tires of stepping on those painful sinkers and finds himself flopping around on the river bank trying to rid himself of those same sinkers, he may be teased mercilessly if I happen to hook a fish.

Thats how we deal with liars and braggarts and fools where I live... is it the same around the world, or am I out of line?

Duncan

>{{{{*>

August 11, 2003 20:10 Dana Krueger <dkrueger "at" kfl.com> http://www.kfl.com/images/index.html
 

Regards, Dana

August 11, 2003 David Benson

I used to be on the list of accredited valuers for donations to museums for tax allowances. There were only 2 on the list, a well known delaer and myself, a collector. I was on the list for about 5 years and in that time I only did 2 valuations, one was for the Museum of the biggest collection that was in their vaults which was going to be transferred to a new Museum with an area specificallly allocated for the collection. It took a long time as I could only do it on weekends as I had a business (non philatelic) to run and I needed an offsider to handle the calculations and paper work. The museum alloted? us 2 guards and a small working area. It took about 6 weekends and we were valuing the material by page. Normally when valuing I work in decimal points usually with jumps of $ 1 or $10. This time we worked in $100's at a time as the collection was valued in the Millions. Very exciting time especially with literally thousands of Sydney Views and Penny Blacks and Two Penny Blues all in perfect condition. It is a reminder that most 4 margined copies of these are tied up in museums and not in collections.

The other valuation I gave was one of the reasons I gave up the honor?. I was approached by a well known dealer to value an accumulation of hundreds of One Pound and Two Pound Kangaroos, mostly on Gold Parcel tags. They were in an old ledger and what worried me was that there was no way of knowing if anything had been removed and if so would I get the blame. The dealer (who I knew was very disreputable) stated that was the way they handed to him and he had pencilled how many per stamps per album page. There was no way of telling if he had taken but I suspected that many had been removed as there were hinge marks. I valued them and they were donated to a country museum (I have no idea why) and the donatee got a huge tax allowance. I did not renew my appointment after that,

As far as I know there is still the same other dealer listed and he is the only one. I asked him a couple of years ago how many he had done and he told me, not even an enquiry.


David Benson

August 11, 2003 Richard Frajola

fair market value
The fact that you have signed a number of 8283's and not had them challenged is meaningless. I suggest that you not tempt fate - the IRS can go after the signer of the form and hold them liable for difference between IRS appraisal and submitted appraisal.

You might want to check the legal definition of "fair market value" - sure doesn't say catalog value anywhere.

As a rule, I won't sign IRS appraisal forms - not worth the liability.

August 11, 2003 19:10 Bob M COVERWIZ on eBay

One can draw their own conclusions on what or what not the IRS will accept. They are more specific on condition in regards to coins. The IRS may have more faith in dealers and catalogs than some of the contributers to this board do!

August 11, 2003 Roger Heath

Noise
One of the results of having taught as a substitute teacher for the past 8 years has been my experience with students who just want attention. With more than 50% of families breaking apart during a childs youthful years, the school system is the only entity that sees the children on a regular basis. Parents are working two jobs, or absent; the TV is the only companion until the child starts to realize it is an independent being. At this point, usually middle school years, one must be aware the search for independence by these children can be guided or not. I'm of the belief one can either participate in guiding or decide it's my problem. Children who create such a continuous disturbance in class must be removed if any learning is to proceed. If the child is not removed, everyone suffers, everyone learns nothing they didn't already know, and they sit getting angry at the impolite disturbed child. The sad aspect is the child should not really be held totally accountable, conditions are not right for full accountability.

I believe it is different for adults. If an adult does not wish to participate in a constructive manner, they have many other things to do with their time. Harrassing a chat board is rude, immature, and not constructive.

David - If it is necessary to your mental well being to change the Board, you have my full support. I don't mind a sign in procedure. I wish to have a forum where we can sit at our computers and pretend we're all in the same room working on our collections and occasionally make comments about our finds, how well our day went, where can we find information, etc.
This is a club, no doubt about it. I think we should be having discussions where everyone should feel comfortable expressing themselves face to face. The only time this doesn't work on the Ebay Chat or now here is when fakes and forgeries are discussed. Why? Because there are some con games going on. We're not discussing occasional misidentification, we're talking out and out attempts to sucker beginning and intermediate into buying items that add nothing to a stamp collection. Reference, nonsense!! The only thing to reference them with is the item they were photocopied from to determine quality of the copier. That is not stamp collecting!!

I have no problem with you deleting any post on your board.

Roger

August 11, 2003 Bill Weiss

NOMAD; that comment about auction agents wasn't meant for you, it was meant for "anonymous" below! Sure, virtually everyone who uses an auction agent does so in their own name, and receives either the lots or the bills directly from the auction house, just as you do.

August 11, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

RPSL expertizers are not anonymous either (still).

August 11, 2003 nomad55

Hi Bill....I never expected an auction agent to keep secret who he was bidding for. Whenever I've used an agent, the lots are sent directly to me, I pay the house the stated amount, and the agent and I settle up his fee totally separate. System's worked so far quite satisfactorilly.

August 11, 2003 Bill Weiss

Auction Agents, etc
For the record, folks generally do not use auction agents to achieve anonymous bidding, they use an agent to (possibly) SAVE MONEY! No-one may bid in a public auction, through a professional agent, without the name of that bidder being revealed to the auction house prior to the sale UNLESS that bidder has previously arranged with the AGENT to bid with the house under his (the agent's) name. If anyone thinks they are anonymous when they bid through an agent, they are just kidding themselves. Most professional agents will only bid for their own account for a third party if they
know that party extremely well and trust them 100%, otherwise, the agent becomes legally responsible for the bids, the money due, the extensions, etc. They are therefore reluctant to bid this way and if you don't believe me, ask one of them!

Regarding anonymous expertizing, up until recently PSE always listed the names of experts on the certs. All experts are required to fill out a form for each item expertized so they see the names of any expert who signed on an item before them, the person(s) who administrate the committee of course knows who saw what, etc, so it's not all as anonymous as you may believe.

August 11, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 11, 2003 Bill Weiss

Anonymous Posts
DAVE; I don't usually monitor this board as much as the last few days either but tonight I just happen to be on here a bit more than usual. Let me be the first to step up to the plate here and tell you that your post (below) is full of courage and inspiration! I am going to add nothing to it, but it is simply a GREAT post, and we all should thank you for it - and I do!!
On the matter of a Linn's article, by all means, when your ready, communicate with me about it. I am pretty sure I can get something into print about this board, either by you writing it and me pushing it for you or me writing it with you (and also pushing it!). Whatever. We can do it!
I am going to be away for about a week fairly soon, but after Sept 1, I will be at your service (I don't want to be too specific about my away dates just yet).

August 11, 2003 ?

noise?
i guess it is noise since one does not want to hear something unpleasant

can you remove my posts now?

seems like someone engage in a conversation with me

oh well - i will leave you all now so there will be no more noise from me

August 11, 2003 ?

taunting?
seems to me like there are more taunting against those who are anonymous than any other group

will be interesting to see the fine line between censorship versus moderation

are you now going to remove any disrepectful posts or just those from not the "in" crowd?

think hard

August 11, 2003 17:47 Dave Frick (moderator)

This whole situation over the last few days has really set me thinking.

Essentially, all I've hoped we could have here is a polite, civilized discussion about stamps. Sometimes it's about a controversial issue, but it can still be done politely. It can also be done with respect.

I'm sorry that discourse in our society has become so polarized that asking for civil discussion is considered "wishy-washy political correctness". It's not. It's what civilized people do, and, as quaint a notion as it is, I think most of us in philately still aspire to that.

And so ?, et al, the problem is, posting anonymously here is blatantly disrespectful for everyone else who posts here in name. And you're wrong about the anonymity in philately: in every case you've cited, the "anonymous" party is known to someone key in the process: either the agent, the expertising organization, or someone else germane.

In the case of anonymous posts on here, you are known to no one, and it comes pretty close to taunting a crowd.

Also, Jim G correctly identified the term I couldn't put my finger on: most of this anonymous posting (and we're seeing a lot of it on eBay right now, too) is just noise. It's like walking up to a group of people having a discussion at a party and just starting making "nyah nyah nyah" noises at them, and then saying, "oh, gee, just don't listen to me if it bothers you." Come on.

Until I address some software issues (and this whole experience has strengthened my resolve to do so), I will be more proactive about removing "noise" on here.

If I inadvertently remove someone's legitimate post by accident with that, please let me know and I'll try to restore it.

Also, if someone posts in your name on here, and I've failed to recognize it as such (although I know most people's styles now), please email me and I'll take it off.

Bill W: Once these issues get resolved, then I think I'll want to talk with you about a possible article in Linn's, etc. A change in software may result in a change in the web address, so I'd like to get that resolved first. Then hopefully this can be a more robust, meaningful board to the philatelic community.

I'm ashamed of how low it sunk this past weekend.

August 11, 2003 ?

anonymous post
a lot of philately is anonymous

bidders use agents to stay anonymous

expertisers on certificates are anonymous

somtimes, a post to a chat board should be anonymous just to avoid ill will if meeting in person

you don't like what someone post, just ignore it

 

August 11, 2003 sveiki!

On the same topic...
When I was on vacation I almost bought a T-shirt with the text: "Ignore me! I might just go away!" {:o) Could be usefull at work...

August 11, 2003 sveiki!

Anonymous vs. Registration
It is possible to keep up a chat board without a registration procedure. Each post should have an automated date, time stamp. Then, a simple tracking program could do the rest and it would be possible to block the IP numbers that belongs to people not behaving.

Oh... Currently we have three "anonymous" IP's out there.

August 11, 2003 Prometheus

Louise = Reply
You might be amazed at what people will put in a bank safety deposit box some of the things are just nonsensical.
I've seen lots of newspapers -( The day Kennedy was Killed for example or Nixon resigns) Rabbits feet, lots of Costume/junk jewelry. Timex watches . etc.
You never know what someone finds valuable like little pieces of paper with gum on back.

August 11, 2003 AtdInvest reseller

what's wrong?

August 11, 2003 David Benson

Bill, the other day a seller in Holland who bought A4 sheets and selling singles, now a seller in France who is selling them in mixed lots of pairs. Not much Ebay can do as it is only the US site that will have the APS check and the non US sites don't have the proviso for a self regulatory stipulation that the item is genuine.

David Benson

August 11, 2003 404 Prometheus

Richard F = my original question
State Auction Question =NOIP
the state of Florida is having their unclaimed bank deposit boxes sale this weekend in Tampa.
I printed out the catalog and notice that most of the Stamps/ stamps related items are Reserved at very high values.
Does anyone have any idea how they set these values ???

The C-1 -C3 used set is reserved at $150.00 and they were Killed by the cancel ,have been hinged, and the perfs are not very pretty either.

way down below I posted a scan of some of the Catalog listings

August 11, 2003 15:58 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

They come back in many forms
Dirk They come back in Many Forms to haunt you, and in such High Quality too.

August 11, 2003 sveiki!

Louise The answer to your question is "Chatten". {;o) Do you drink beer? *yuck* {;o) A nice brandy would do, or a glass of semi-sweet Georgian redwine. {:o)

August 11, 2003 sveiki!

Hi! {:o) Sorry, I haven't been active earlier today, but carried away by other business. Was out dining fancy...

August 11, 2003 Richard Frajola

IRS
To whoever said that it was - Catalog value is not fair market value as far as the IRS is concerned.

August 11, 2003 stamp killer

anyway i'm leaving for several days, so bye:-))))))

August 11, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 11, 2003 David Benson

Knud, one of the underbidder snipee's is a very good friend of mine. He only buys on Ebay to resell in Singapore. Judging by his bid it would realise a lot more in Singapore.

David Benson

August 11, 2003 Louise

Ah, Knud-Erik! Can you tell me what the Danish is for "chat"? I registered on your site this evening and can't quite manage to navigate it. It would be OK for me if the Danish characters were loaded - I don't speak Danish, but parts of it are similar enough to English to be able to figure it out eventually - but it doesn't help when even the symbols are coming up wrong (unless you meant to use the Czech "r" all the time of course).

Thanks. Hope you are well and that business is booming.

August 11, 2003 13.55 Knud-Erik (knuden) http://sudeten.bizland.com/Homepage.htm
 

August 11, 2003 Bill Weiss

Anonymous Posts
Dave F.; of course it's your board to do with as you please....personally, I see nothing wrong with you deleting any anonymous post, no matter what the topic. If this practice is stated in your introduction (Anonymous posts automatically deleted unless a board member responds) or some such notice that you feel is fair to all parties, then I support that decision 100%. Further, you might consider giving just as a good general advisory to board members that they think twice before responding to any anonymous post. Perhaps if all board participants start to consider the anonymous posts as something to be totally ignored, they will just cease, which in my view is not a bad thing.
Obviously, if someone comes on with a sensible comment or question and another participant wants to respond and does, then great, no harm done, and the reponding party might even advise the new poster that the board usually requires identified posters, so please do so in the future.

August 11, 2003 COVERWIZ

Sorry about that
Don't hit the refresh button on an old screen -- sorry...

August 11, 2003 Louise Stanley

****trying hard not to rise to the bait****

August 11, 2003 12:37 COVERWIZ

Prometheus
Concerning value of the unclaimed bank lots: IRS considers Scott catalog value = fair market value. Thus the auctioneers are obligated to protect what they regard as the market value, which of course is not real world, especially as to condition etc, which the lotters may, but probably don't, know...

August 11, 2003 Louise

Stampkiller - without wanting to get into a big discussion about it, that's the point - here you can just do anything. On a login board you'd have a recognised id and therefore not be anonymous.

Prometheus - good luck with your auctions and your quest for a new watch. I may have got this wrong because I'm guessing at what the auction is about but if someone felt strongly enough to keep stamps in a bank vault then there must be something of interest in there. Me I'm sticking to the Russian market and hoping to snap up a few bargains there, but here in Warsaw folks know their merchandise better than those people in Lodz (1950s album from the Warsaw Days youth festival for ten zloty; issue of "Swiat" (World) magazine from the week of Stalin's death for 50 groszy in Lodz - not sure about dollars, but that's GBP 2 (or five dinners in a greasy spoon canteen) as opposed to, oh, about 10 cents).

August 11, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Stating the obvious

To Anonymous... um, I think most of us had already figured out thw Fly By identity (nudge nudge wink wink), but your analysis was well done, much like a researcher identifying an authentic Robert E Lee letter.

I guess sometimes its good to state the obvious. I held off for a while, but your letter gives me the courage to post the secret printing method for making great stamp images to fill those empty album spots...

The secret is revealed.

Duncan

August 11, 2003 David Benson

Greg, the only other possibility is a local Postmaster's overprint but I looked carefully and they all look like Shanghai or London overprints.

I think your original opinion of $ 10 was optimistic,

David Benson

August 11, 2003 David Benson

Greg, no idea why the China went so high. The only explanation has to be cancels and I can't see anything special. Hope it goes through OK but don't count on it,

David Benson

August 11, 2003 12:59 Jim Watson

BRM rates May 1971
Bob,
Beecher and Warukiewicz says rate for less than or equal to 2 ox was 2¢ per piece between August 1, 1958, and September 14, 1975. Greater than 2 oz was 5¢ per piece between August 1, 1958 and March 2, 1975.

August 11, 2003 Prometheus

Coverwhiz = Thanks
I wondered where they got their values from the coins/jewelry usually are priced decently as I am a Newbie to stamps this was my first go around paying attention to the stamps.
 

August 11, 2003 .

yur probably all different people,really,just happen to be equally mistaken when it comes to filatellleeee and poor at englisch,maybe you'all were in the same inglish class,learnin those you-neeeeek punctuation skills,..btw,did i do a good job of Imitation?they say tha'ts the best form of flattttery!

August 11, 2003 Prometheus

Older Japan Question
For those of you into Japan stamps anything here Older that is of interest are just make the whole thing a buck to start.
Thanks
 

August 11, 2003 12:25 Bob M -- COVERWIZ on ebay

BRM rates May 1971
Does anyone have a source that would tell the Business Reply Mail fee per envelope in May, 1971 while the first class rate was still 10c. TIA for any help!

August 11, 2003 Louise

Ah, sorry, Greg, didn't realise it was you selling it...

Good luck anyway.

August 11, 2003 Greg Ioannou <greg@rogers.com>

The high bidder tried to buy the item from me privately (for $20). He registered when I refused his offer. I can always try to sell it to the underbidder if I don't get the money. Still curious to know what there was of value on that page. I was expecting one sniper, not four!

August 11, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Greg - I guess I'm just as suspicious as Louise, you'll notice he jst became a member yesterday. But who knows, he may have just been browsing and found that item and had to sign up, just to get it.

August 11, 2003 Prometheus <prometheus@yada-yada.com>

Need to see more of listings
If anyone would like to see more of the philatelic listings in this auction email me at above address and i'll email you some scans. of the catalog
I will be attending i do need a new watch.

August 11, 2003 Louise

Greg
Call me worried but I don't like the chances of that seller getting any money...

August 11, 2003 Prometheus

State Auction Question =NOIP
the state of Florida is having their unclaimed bank deposit boxes sale this weekend in Tampa.
I printed out the catalog and notice that most of the Stamps/ stamps related items are Reserved at very high values.
Does anyone have any idea how they set these values ???

I do plan on posting my 100 dollars cash just to preview
(i need a new rolex) I was just astounded by the High reserves.
An example of the lots is in this CATSCAN

Thanks to anyone who understands how they do this.

August 11, 2003 Greg Ioannou <gregioannou@rogers.com>

Snipers!
God bless snipers! So what was on that page that I missed? I expected it to go for about $10.

August 11, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 11, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 11, 2003 10:52 Dave Frick (moderator)

anonymous id's
Fly-By: Colin said so much better than I ever could what the issues seem to be. Although a few people on here use nicknames, I think in every case, I know who these people are, either through direct communication, or through our interactions over time on eBay (and in which case that's where their nickname comes from, their eBay id.)

In thinking about this last night, I realized that the concern I have with anonymous ids is intent: I become a bit on alert that someone intends harm, or to disrupt the board, or to attack another poster.

You have put together coherent thoughts, and now, as Colin said, I have a better idea where you're coming from, so my concern level is a bit reduced. Thank you for posting enough that I begin to have a feeling for your perspective.

However, stampkiller, you still cause me concern, and perhaps that's what your intention is.

Others: When we have random shots from anonymous posters, that aren't really trying to make a point other than possible disruptiveness, if you'll refrain from replying to them, then I'll start deleting them. (Actually, I have done this occasionally in the past.)

But if you reply to them -- and you're still very much free to do so -- then I do consider those posts as having been engaged, and am reluctant to delete them after that. Also, I would need to delete that portion of your comment directed to them, so that the "flow" of the board would be consistent. Any thoughts on this?
 

August 11, 2003 10.10 am Colin Judd UK (xzephyr) http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_GB_Machins/
 

Colin

August 11, 2003 10.08 am Colin Judd UK (xzephyr) http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_Japan_stamps
 

Colin

August 11, 2003 duncan Doenitz

Security

Jim I just tell people I'm a sniper. Most of them don't know about eBay so that's enough to povide some measure of safety.

Dunc

 

August 11, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

duncan

I think I would make a distinction between selling well and selling unusually well. Personally I might have a problem spending $20 on a stamp that catalogs for $2. But that's just me.

My other hobbies (link is down at the moment)preclude anonymity but provide a safe haven for my stamp collection.

August 11, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Watching and learning
Jim W-SI'm just trying to learn about the hobby Jim, and I know that US #563 is selling well in all of its color range when the stamps are in great shape. Here are two more very recent examples...

blue green

and light green

But I'm afraid I'm a little dense, I don't recognize the underbidders, although I do run across one of the bidders quite often.

By the way, you or anyone else can contact me at croberts33 "at" juno.com, which brings me to another subject. I have been burgarized twice and a serious collector friend was also robbed, so we no longer make it openly known that we are collectors. I also distribute my used copies of Linns (they go to a Seniors gathering place) but my address is removed. So that's my view on being anonymous.

Duncan D

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

August 11, 2003 Don H

Don

August 11, 2003 1625 BST Ed.B

It makes this this place seem like a haven of tranquility.Ed

August 11, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

DD & JB
If that were my collecting area, I'd give some close scrutiny to at least one of the underbidders.

August 11, 2003 Prometheus <my real name by the way>

Today's Postal aug 11 1893
110 years old mailed in Chcago to Dayton Ohio ,
From the Columbian Exposition a Official Sovenir Postal Card
of the Women's Building
Neat
From E. A. Meredith to Miss Markland

August 11, 2003 04:14 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a cover from Germany to Peru in 1885. Here's your chance to learn about the Guerra del Pacifico!

August 11, 2003 Roger Heath

Roger


 

August 11, 2003 23:43 Dave Frick (moderator)

Frank: Welcome! Just step over the debris we've left around here and make yourself at home! It's not usually this bad. Actually, thanks for introducing a new philatelic topic. But very sorry that you took quite a loss.

Bill W.: I think I'll be soon getting the specs together for the software that I need, that may give us some of the features we need, without giving up other features that we value. Sounds like it would be easy, but the tradeoffs are significant (not to mention the effort to set it up). However, after this weekend, it bears researching again.

August 10, 2003 Fly-By

Still Lurking
Well gee thanks Bill,I'll be nice tomorrow too!

August 10, 2003 8: 09 PM Frank

Early Tokelau items
The earliest item I had was a seaplane cover from about 1947. I had sent the cream of my collection off to Singapore to be photographed as I did not know how to scan and photocopies were unacceptable and the 14 covers were stolen. To see some scans and read some articles I wrote on Tokelau go to Stamp2.com, click on exclusives and have a read. The article about meeting the prime minister is a fun one for sure.Right now I have to high tail it off the board as I either spend some quality time with Brenda or look for a new wife. To all a good night. I'll respong tomorrow. Regards.
 

August 10, 2003 8:30PM Bill Weiss

Chat Board Identity
Have been away all day and have now taken time to read today's posts - and what a day of posts!! The only comment I want to make is that I agree with George K. that the identity of a poster should be mandatory. While an un-named poster may indeed have something valid and/or valuable to say, I think he has way more credibility if he identifies himself. I'm a big believer in standing behind what you do or say. To me, it's just like expertizing. If I give an opinion for an expert committee or on this board, or wherever, how much is that opinion worth if I won't put my name to it? Further, I also agree that often times those who won't identify themselves are merely looking to "make trouble" rather than contribute something really meaningful. Notice that I say all this even though "Fly-By" was NICE to me! Now off to bed!

August 10, 2003 J.B>

and check out the ridiculous shipping fee

August 10, 2003 J.B.

Duncan D...WoW $61.00+ for a stamp with a $1.40 c.v.I wonder how mant more of them he would like to have at 1/2 of that price.I just bought 8 of them!for less than a buck each.

August 10, 2003 David Benson

Frank, what is your earliest Tokelau item,

David Benson

August 10, 2003 David Benson

Frank, sorry, the chisellers, cheats and crooks are still listing even with the addition of the warning. So far Ebay and the APS haven't shown their hand what they will do. If they come down on some then IT MAY clean up some of the act, otherwise just status quo.


David Benson

August 10, 2003 Prometheus

Frank = How about some scans
I am not familiar with your chosen collection could you share some scans.

August 10, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Frank
Fraid not.
Australia and NZ are high on my list of places to go to though.
Especially if I can get to either by island hopping.

August 10, 2003 7:50 PM Frank

Tokelau and Jim Whitford-Stark
Have you been to the atolls? It takes 23 hours by boat from Western Samoa to get there and everyone sleeps out on the decks I'm told.
 

August 10, 2003 7:47PM frank

New to the board
Hi,
Just sampled postings for the day and this chat board is definitely interesting. I was listing on ebay some old catalogs today and when I got to the end of the listing process they now have a BIG warning that sellers are required to accurately list items for sale including describing faults, alterations, repairs and fakery . I think this has the potential to cut out a lot of the cheats, chislers and stinkers. All depends on whether ebay carries through with its threat to delist items it deems improperly described. See, there is hope and probably a lot of credit goes to the heated exchanges on chat boards like this and the site called: Stamp collectors against Dodgy Sellers. Regards, Frank

August 10, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Frank
No volcanoes in the Tokelau's.
Nice coral reefs though.

August 10, 2003 Bill Longley

Don Heale,

1938 Newf revenues are perf 13.75, 14.25
1943 Newf revenues are perf 12.

Hope this helps.

Bill
 

August 10, 2003 7:19 PM Frank

Tokelau/Union Islands
Hi,
Hope you are all enjoying summer as I am here on Long Island, New York. Would like to chat about Tokelau Island stamps and covers. The islands, 1,500 miles north of New Zealand, were fomerly known as the Union Islands and before that part of the Gilbert & Ellice Colony. I took it up since there were a finite number of stamps since the first issue in 1948. Well, then I got into fdc's, commercial mail etc and you can guess the rest of the ongoing adventure. Regards,Frank

August 10, 2003 Prometheus

Brian R =reply
Brian the little booklet was just thrown into a box with a few coil line pairs, the others i linked earlier, these Triangles a couple of Gimbel's Stamp News Magazines from 1948 and two copies of scott's specialized 1954 and 1965
This is an Estate/collectibles auction and they have no clue on most things they sell they just try to lump like items together.

August 10, 2003 Mr. Pigeon

Rob Faux: how about Pigeon Mail.

August 10, 2003 Roger Heath

Investment potential
"they have the same investment potential that unaltered stamps do"
I wonder if horse breeders feel the same way about stallions vs. geldings?
Of course maybe there's vet who can sew'em back on claiming, " They look OK, and you can't tell difference when I'm finished!."

Roger
 

August 10, 2003 Don Heale <dheale@excite.com>

Don
 

August 10, 2003 Brian R

I shouldn't have to say it, but when something like that is provided to you, by a dealer/auction house, don't walkaway.....RUN!

August 10, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Oops, this one...
here

August 10, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

US #563

Nice color variety and great centering, but wow what competitive bidding on this one so far.

Duncan D

August 10, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

dave f
Thanks for suggestion, but I don't belong to that one.
Probably just as cheap to buy the book as to get it from the other one.

August 10, 2003 Prometheus

Should have spelled it Apfelbaum
Brian R = and others here is the little booklet i referred to earlier
Reperfingsecrets

two interesting quotes from this booklet
1. As an aside there is nothing wrong with a reperforated,regummed,or repaired stamp providing it is offered that way. usually they have the same investment potential that unaltered stamps do.
And if i understand correctly that he got into some kind of trouble with stamps This is a great statement that closes the article which he offered as a public service.

2. One reperfer boasts that even he cannot tell his own work when finished, But this was only a boast and if there is no honor among thieves why should there be honesty.


 

August 10, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Anonymous posts

I guess I had no idea we were really anonymous, I assumed that our moderator could see the IP's of those who posted here.

Personally, my experiences online have involved games, particularly WWI and WWII flight sims where we fly in online combat with and against each other. It has always been normal in our games for players to adopt an online persona, with nearly everybody flying under ficticious names, it's part of the fun.

But on our game bulletin boards, we must register. No problem, in fact it prevents problems. I still enjoy selecting an anonymous online name, but I definitely believe that our moderator(s) should be aware of who we really are.

On a similar subject, there can be problems when email addresses are displayed online. It surprised me to see how many people used their email address as an identity at eBay, even though for a while I did the same thing. Spambots routinely examine eBay searching out active email addresses for spam. If you go to an informational site to learn about spam you will find eBay specifically mentioned as a source that spammers use.

I'd recommend that if you wish to post your email address that you do it like this:

duncandoenitz "at" juno.com

And then a legitimate user can use the address by substituting "@" for "at" while keeping the address invisible to automated spambots.

Duncan D

"Does a mime listen to blank tapes?"

August 10, 2003 sveiki!

Done! {:o) The update of my Riga Postcard webpages is finished and all links in that part of the webportal should work now.

August 10, 2003 15.27 Knud-Erik Andersen http://sudeten.bizland.com/Homepage.htm
 

August 10, 2003 George K

And "newbies" to eBay are not necessarily stupid, or uneducated, or new to computers or the internet. I'd give them enough credit to be smart enough to understand why anonymity is bad for real and honorable open discussion. I am sure they would be intelligent enough to fill in a little registration form, too.

August 10, 2003 Chuck Harm

Microscopes for Philately
Anyone - I have been thinking about getting some kind of microscope to examine stamps with. With my declining eyesight and the need to closely examine perfs and printing I need soemthing better than a magnifying glaas. I have looked at stereomicroscopes, digital etc. Curious if anyone has any experience here and can make any recommendations I am interested in being able to examine printing techniques, perfs, and design details. What magnifications are right - I have been looking at a range fro 10x to 40x. What types are useful? steromicroscopes? digital microscopes? Any advice on specific issues or models? Or am I crazy and should just get a higher power stamp magnifier?

Thanks

Chuck

August 10, 2003 sveiki!

Topical Covers
Well, that one... {:o)

August 10, 2003 14:17 Dave ("philatarium")

Rob: Always glad to see you around. Post anytime!

Jim W-S: You might be able to check them out from the APRL and at least see if they would be meaningful for you. (Again, a link which I intend to have up at some time: http://www.stamplibrary.org/ )

August 10, 2003 Louise

Which one?

August 10, 2003 sveiki!

Louise was that post meant for me? {:o)

August 10, 2003 Rob Faux

Louise Ya! things like that. No worries about when you post. :)

killer Then, perhaps you should direct your post? Follows directly after mine - looks like you mean me.
You shouldn't be so touchy - read the smiley's - I'm mocking myself more than I'm responding to you. It's Sunday, it's nice outside. I'm at work... I don't want to be here, so I've wasted time playing on the stamp chat. :) Thus, I will get back to work - inadvertantly, you reminded me that I should either do my job - or go home! :)

August 10, 2003 stamp killer

Faux don't be touchy,it wasn't for you

August 10, 2003 Louise Stanley

Topical covers
I have a couple of Russian/Soviet covers posted at sea, which weren't that expensive (which is why I have them in the first place...!!!). That's probably going to be a very easy thing to find. If you're patient I can get scans of them together, but not until I get back to Lodz in 2 weeks time.

August 10, 2003 Rob Faux

killer Yes, I guess I am. So, I'll just get back to work. It's all I'm good for anyway.... :P

Fun, let myself do some stamp board posting here without having done so for months - and I'm a timewaster now. :)

August 10, 2003 Rob Faux

postal history subtopics
All Something I'm trying to do with minimal expenditure with no hopes of completion and only sporadic attention is to try to pick up examples of various types of postal history subtopics and/or cover collecting subtopics for areas some folks will claim are philatelicly contrived. :) It's partly a self-education endeavor and partly a education endeavor for others.

so, intersting sub-areas of interest I can think about off the top of my head include things like Tonga Tin Can Mail, Rattlesnake Island covers, Zepp flights, rocket mail, ballon monte covers, SCADTA mail, mail carrier covers, steamboat mail, etc.

Wondered if others might enjoy coming up with a list of areas such as these that one could put together examples of inexpensive, but nice looking covers, to show others who might like to get into collecting.

Rediculously ambitious? Yes. Fun? yes. :)

August 10, 2003 stamp killer

timewaster

August 10, 2003 Rob Faux

Jim Only two places I noted Kerr were
here and
here

Shows up rarely in the U.S.

August 10, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Thanks rob
I first saw Kerr advertized as four volumes for $75.
Thought, that looks good.
Later found out they are paper bound with about 50 pages in each.

August 10, 2003 Rob Faux

Brian
I don't have an answer re: the duck stamps, but it is possible that Bill Norberg at Golden Valley Stamps in Minneapolis, MN might have an idea re: sources to help you. He does sell ducks regularly - and Leech Lake would be known up here. :)

Try this email address: bnorberg@gvstamps.com

Tell Bill to be nice to you since I sent you his way. :)

Rob

August 10, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Brian
ROTFLMAO.

August 10, 2003 Brian R

Particulally intriguing, are several MN fishing licences from the 70's. They dispaly a local revenue "leech lake indian reservation, validation stamp" Does anyone know of a good resource, that I can draw on, to determine what I have? The reservation stamps are serialized (none higher than #4000) so are likely quite rare. Now the question is are they collectable?
 

August 10, 2003 Rob Faux

Jim W-S I think $75 is probably pretty normal for that book. Don't have a copy myself b/c have yet to see one any cheaper than that price....and, I must admit my focus is truly elsewhere...

Clark Any setenant (connected) stamps of different designs MAY have additional value - depending on the issue. Popular topics sometimes do better than face. (for example, the 3 cent baseball issue regularly does well). But, rule of thumb for most collections of this sort that are UNUSED is to tell people what the face value is. That does not imply you will get face value for it if you were to sell it.

On the other hand, this sounds like a great start if you wanted to begin your own collection!

Rob

August 10, 2003 Fly-By

Thats right you collect what ever you see fit.if all well centered and M.N.H. stamps are your forte then go for it.But never let some one else tell you that you ca'nt collect what you want!And BTW I am not hiding behind anything and will openly discuss any statements.Many others us ID's not thier real name.When addressed as such.

August 10, 2003 Roger Heath

Thanks to David
David -
I think you missed the boat by not joining Lavar and running for Governor. Your moderation techniques will be useful in Sacramento. You don't need to apologize for not having the links organized and in working order today, tomorrow will be fine!!
Roger

August 10, 2003 Brian R

prometheusLOL...that is one interesting phamplet indeed! They didn't have a beginners guide to bid rigging available too, did they?

August 10, 2003 12:26 Dave ("philatarium")

Louise: I just remembered that on the links page (which you can get to above), there are several links to Russia websites, some of which looked quite detailed. Thanks to Guillaume for those recommendations.

And as long as I'm talking about links, I'll apologize for not getting any further along with them yet. I've kept everyone's recommendations, and will get back to that project again soon.

August 10, 2003 sveiki!

Louise Have no idea. {:o) Text on all three: "Benefitting the Victims of War". The 1 kopeck stamp furthermore has the text: "Fellinskaya Gorodskaya Uprava" - City Council of Fellin (Viljandi in Estonian). The other two stamps have text in Latin, I guess, within the arms. All three stamps are from 1916 - during WWI.
First time I see them, don't know anything about them, why they were made etc.

August 10, 2003 Prometheus

Rich Wong = Thanks
Thanks for the information Bought a small collection of coil line pairs at an auction and those were mounted right along with the others.
Although I had given Fly-By's answer a little thought because a little booklet with the collection was titled Reperfing by Apelbaum(sp) Guess I should look thru that booklet if I can figure out where I pitched/stored it.

August 10, 2003 David Benson

Chuck, re. Trengganu, I knew that they were worth at least full Gibbons as I cannot recall seeing them used before. The 6c. took off 1st. but that was issued just before the Japanese invasion and used must be scarce but I didn't expect the 3c. to jump as well. Just another example of Ebay finding the level amongst international collectors.

David Benson

August 10, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

christo
Yes, and many thanks.
I'll be scanning some of them later today and cye.

August 10, 2003 Brian R

found stamps
Clark The advice given about most post 1930 stamps, being worth around face value, is sadly true. They were extensively hoarded, so much so, that they still often turn up, paying the postage on many mail order dealer items. The ones pre 1930, can be worth considerablely more. That depends on the issue. I'd recommend getting a cheap price guide, with photos, from the supermarket. You'll be able to quickly evaluate if you have good items. BTW--5 of the first 6 airmail issues, have cataloge values of over $100 each, for fine condition-unused, so this is likely worth your time.

August 10, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Jim W-S Hopefully there was something of use in there!
Regards
 

August 10, 2003 Louise

Dave - yeah, Sveiki should be around in a bit.

This is unusual for me to be logged on at a time when everyone else is active.

August 10, 2003 11:40 Dave Frick (moderator)

Clark: In re-reading my response, I realize I should have added: check out from your local library. In my experience, they usually have the most recent copy in the reference section, but that past years' versions circulate. Odds are good that as long as it is relatively recent, the values should not be much different (if at all).

August 10, 2003 11:35 Dave Frick (moderator)

Clark: Since they're US, I actually think that makes it easier to figure out. One thing you can do is likely check out a fairly recent copy of the Scott Postage Stamp Catalog. For US, you have 2 options: There's a big multi-volume set, and the US is in volume 1. However, there is also a US Specialized volume, and is, I think, much easier to use. The illustrations are larger, there's more information, etc. For that reason, it's also easier to get a bit distracted by the details (special cancels and the like), but that's not so bad either.

I agree with what Jim W-S, that most of the material is maybe worth face value, but some of it does carry a premium, and you might have some of that. One bit of good news is that it's a Scott album, and, depending on the make of the album, may not have been so targeted to the casual collector as some of the makers of the time were. It also means that most of the Scott numbers should correctly correspond to the current numbering system (hopefully). (I'm not a US collector either, so take all this with a grain of salt.)

Nonetheless, there are pitfalls, especially for early stamps that have small (or miniscule) differences in appearance but significant differences in value, and the original owner of the album may not have always been able to correctly identify the item.

On the other hand, much of the more recent material, which it sounds like you have, is more easily identified, where the face image is unique and, when you see it in the catalog, you know you've got the right item. (Again, doesn't always hold true, but increases your odds of being right.)

I'm sure people much more knowledgeable and helpful than I will be able to jump in here and expand upon this advice.

But do be careful: you may find that once you've mucked around it for a bit, that you'll actually become interested in it! You may end up wanting to expand upon what's already there. (And there wouldn't be anything wrong with that either!)

Louise: Good luck with your questions, which are so far beyond my knowledge that I won't even attempt to fake a reply. I know we have some regulars who check in who are more familiar with that area, so I'll keep my fingers crossed that someone will jump in. (I have noted that the vacation season has resulted in a slack-off of regulars posting in. Some we haven't heard from in weeks.)

August 10, 2003 Louise

Anyone know what or where these come from?

August 10, 2003 Jim W-S

dave F
I don't have Scott with me but using the one example I have and the Scott quote by seller, your formula still works out as Scott being about two thirds of Sakura. Not that it really matters much.

BTW if anyone has or knows of source for Allen Kerr's Manchuria overprints book cheap, I'd like to know. $75 for 250 pages of softbound manuscript seems a little expensive.

August 10, 2003 11:17 AM Rich Wong

Forget what Fly-by said about your 1973 10c Crossed Flag
pair. They were printed on the multicolor Huck press, Per the Scott
catalogue, it "used many recess-engraved plates of smaller size than
any used previously." "Joint lines appear after every two or four
stamps." It "was first used to print the 1969 Christmas stamp" and
the 1969 6-cent Flag over White House stamp.

August 10, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

clark
I'm not a US stamp collector but have garnered sufficient information from the boards to give you a rough answer.
Firstly, without seeing condition its hard to tell.
Secondly, most post 1930 sells at face value or less.
Pre 1930 somewhat better.
Album adds some, but not much, value to collection.

August 10, 2003 Clark

Thanks for the welcome Dave
Yes they are US stamps...Trying to keep a 1 1/2 year old entertained
and stamp fact searching at the same time caused me to omit that
minor detail;-))))
Thanks again
Clark

August 10, 2003 10:49 Dave Frick (moderator)

Clark: Welcome to the board! There are regulars who check in here that are far more experienced that I am at how to go about addressing your question, and will know where there are some links to pages/sites that can help get you started on this.

If you have a scanner, feel free to scan some images, especially of the earliest stuff, and provide links here to the board, and people can help give you a better idea. Also, you didn't mention whether or not it was US or international, but I'm guessing US?

Check in over the next few hours, as people come and go on here, but someone will address your question.

August 10, 2003 10:42 Dave ("philatarium")

Jim W-S: My general rule of thumb, and it is merely that, is to take the Sakura value in yen, divide by 100 (for exchange rate, a generous factor), then divide by 2. That usually takes it down to something like a market price. I've found that Sakura prices are what Scott used to be: high so that dealers could work off of a percentage of it. That said, I did find when I went to PhilaNippon that many Japanese dealers were working off of 100% Sakura, especially for more recent material, but I attribute much of that to the fact that that was such an expensive show to be at that retail was to be expected.

August 10, 2003 Louise

Dave, Brian - Thanks for your kind comments. Rest assured I hope it won't come to moving the board. I will be around for another two weeks but can't guarantee anything after that, as I will be moving back to Lodz; one of the reasons I "disappeared" was the lack of home access to the internet and the spiralling bills in cafes. But the places where I might be working usually have internet access for free, so work permitting I'll be back after that.

Back to philately: My problem is at the moment is that I'm away from home on a course in Warsaw and my stamps are all back in Lodz, except the ones I pick up here at the open air market a couple of streets away when I get the chance (Russian sellers with tons of the same stamp, and a few Poles, but I reckon the merchandise is at least genuine, even if it isn't the inter-war Baltics I'm currently salivating over on eBay) and the ones I brought back from Britain with me (eg the Montenegrin one I was asking about the other night). I have plenty of access to stamps here without relying on eBay - I think the hobby is more eagerly followed out east than at home in Britain thanks to the promotion it got under communism as a socially acceptable way of filling a few spare hours - and a friend who collected as a child has offered me her entire Russian collection, which is nice of her because I still have a long way to go on my Soviet collection (yeah, not worth very much, but to me a nice commem image is more interesting than a valuable definitive, although I do as it happens collect Soviet postally used, because of the relative rarity of them - Brian - agree wholeheartedly with your stance on this area).

Anyone got any good ideas on making up packets of stamps, not necessarily to sell on eBay (long way off - it'll be years yet before I get a credit card) but just to see if I can shift some of the inter-war Czechoslovak duplicates that I got in a pack of 500 or so which turned out I think to be a dealer's lot. Not that I'm trying to make a quick buck, just don't think any of the stamps are worth all that much by themselves and thought that it might be more useful for people if I collected them into sensible sized lots.

By the way, if anyone is familiar with Warsaw, Interfil have got a nice new building round the corner from where they were. I know some lurkers on the eBay board had experience with Polish stamp dealers, so just passing on some info. If anyone in turn knows where a decent bourse is here - or in the rest of Poland - let me know!

August 10, 2003 Clark

Newbie with a bunch of stamps
Looks like I have inherited a Scotts Album with stamps from the late 20,s and early 30,s that is half full thenfrom 1935 till 1985 the album is full. Also most of the airmail stamps are in it at the back.All stamps are unused and appear to be in great condition.
Any idea what the stamps may be worth? Just a ballpark figure
would help a bunch.

Thanks in advance
Clark

August 10, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dave F.

Thanks for your reply to chuck, I was going to ask a similar question. Will check out Linns later.
Interesting, but Scott value for old stamp I linked to last night is only half Sakura for mint.

August 10, 2003 Brian R

Dave F
Despite being part of your recent angst, I do hope you won't install, the type of software your considering. The newbie is the life blood of our hobby, and extra hurdles for them, will be a big disincentive to post. Look at how activity has crashed on the ebay board. I'm refering to the appearence of new people, not the lack of posts from the regulars, due to other reasons.

August 10, 2003 10:00 Dave Frick (moderator)

Brian: Well said. (Cye, btw.)

August 10, 2003 9:55 Dave Frick (moderator)

Chuck: I definitely agree with you on the first paragraph of your post.

As for the recent Japanese stamps, I think the reason Scott values them so high reflects the (fluctuating) exchange rates prevalent at the time. It looks like to calculate mint prices, they took the exchange rate at the time of issue (or up to a year later), calculated the dollar equivalent, and then doubled it. That was the mint $ value. Then it looks like they knocked about 1/3 off of that for used. So you're right, it does not in any way correlate with Sakura values, where the exchange-rate effect does not influence the catalog value.

That said, I haven't dealt with a dealer in Japan in recent years. But I did work with someone about 10-12 years ago, and I noticed she still advertises in Linn's. (Do you get that?) In the ad, her name is listed in Japanese order, and using a now-somewhat-rare form of Romanization. Thus, her print name in the Linn's ad is "Kawanisi Setuko", but we would pronounce it "Setsuko Kawanishi". If you don't have a Linn's handy, let me know and I'll transcribe the full ad for you. In addition to recent assortments, she does operate from lists for recent issues as well, and accepts US International Postal Money Orders for payment.

Louise: Thanks for your kind remarks. And I've been meaning to welcome you on here. I do remember when you were participating actively on the eBay board, and glad to see you back. I too have been trying to hold off on buying on eBay these days, partly because of trying to effect a job change, and partly because I still have so much material to go through as it is. Do feel free to stay as active with this board as you'd like!

August 10, 2003 Brian R (the new calmer version)

BTW--I also share your opinion that postaly used items, especially errors, should be worth much more than their unused siblings. I'm more than happy to collect the prior at a reduced price. Whoever created the cult of MOGNH (or MUH for you colonials) did me a great service!

August 10, 2003 Chuck Harm <macalusoharm@sprintmail.com>

NOIP at the risk of reigniting a fire, I do think it was interesting that i never saw any response to the request to mark the modern reproductions with facsilmile on the back which should have no impact to someone wanting an acknowledged copy to fill a space. Also there was no response to the scan providing a comparison of the reproduction to the genuine stamps despite the claim that the reproductions are of very high quality. I think these were both straightforward attempts to fcatually discuss the issue and the lack of response saidd volumes to me.

Dave F. - I have been starting to spend more time on my Japanese collection lately, especially the modern stamps. I collect postally used and have noticed for stamps of the last 10-15 years , Sakura prices are well below Scott. Do you know of any dealers in japan that sell modern postally used stamps at Sakura prices? I would welcome any contacts you can provide.

Dave B. - Any idea why your Trengganu 3c is up to $30? My catalog checks with Scott, SC and Tan (ISC) have indicated a price in the $7-12 range. Is there something special about the cancel? Or is this just two people trying to fill the last hole on the page and willing to pay a premium.

August 10, 2003 Louise Stanley

Well said, Dave
I for one would second what you've said. Not really going to get involved because I long since gave up buying on eBay and don't want to go back on as a regular user until I get a regular job that allows more than the hand-to-mouth-to-stamp-album language student existence, but it seems to me that the people with the most to defend are instantly detectable from the people willing to make a coherent, intelligent point against the abuses of the trade going on on eBay.

Stamp collecting is a hobby, any professional site or group of experienced collectors will tell that instantly to people who think they have struck it lucky with their granddad's old album (sometimes it's rather painful to a newbie to find out that their stamps aren't worth tuppence, but that's often how to separate the wheat from the chaff). Sure, there are full time dealers and big volume sellers on eBay aren't all bent, but in the main it is still a hobby. It is sad to see people who think the only reason to take up a hobby is to make a quick buck out of it. If I want images of stamps I'll cut up my magazines, Michel cat or draw my own.

I for one would happily register as a member of a new forum. It may not stop the problem people but it would reduce traffic. It's a shame to make it an exclusive "club", but it might reduce the accusations and counter-accusations and personal attacks.

Sveiki - will check back in on the site tonight!

August 10, 2003 9:21 Dave Frick (moderator)

Fly-By: I'm afraid I cannot really figure out where you stand: I thought the people you were having problems with are the people you now seem to be supportive of. Or that may have been sarcasm. I'm not sure. And I suppose it doesn't matter.

But I think you are incorrect in connecting mastery of a subject with economic activity. In short, "if you really knew what you were doing, you'd be earning a living at it." There are still many people who treat this has a hobby. Indeed, one of the most knowledgeable individuals in detecting forgeries, Varro Tyler, was a professor of pharmacology, and was even more proficient in publishing in that field than he was in philately. I don't know if you're American or not, but it seems to me, as an American, that it is a peculiarly American way of thinking that equates money-making ability with respect. One does not necessarily follow from the other.

Do please be aware that anonymous posting is a privilege on here, a matter of trust. I must say that after the experiences of the last several days, I am now looking once again at an entirely different board software that will require everyone to go through a one-time registration and confirmation process, ip address logging, and the ability to put a specific poster on a monitor system, where their particular posts would be subject to review before posting, while the majority would not be. I don't want to do this. I am opposed to it on principle, and I don't want to create so many technological hurdles for people who may have valuable stamp knowledge but are not so computer-savvy.

-- Dave (still crabby after the last couple of days)

August 10, 2003 Fly-By

Fly-By

August 10, 2003 Fly-by <nobodycares @ urstuk.com>

prometheus sight line for cutting machine,or a coil line pair thats been perferated..now I wonder who could have done that?

August 10, 2003 Christo van Zyl

This hobby has been plagued by this sort of thing for ages. People need to think about what they buy, yes. I do believe that they should be educated, yes. But if a person does not want to use/apply that knowledge, you/I have done our bit - we can wash our hands. What don't people understand when they read addies auction description?? When people bid even after reading that description, what much do you think it will help to inform them of what they are actually bidding. Not much I think...

August 10, 2003 Prometheus

RIGA Postcards = reply
SVEIKI! = Nice postcards

August 10, 2003 sveiki!

NOIP While you've been busy with the ongoing discussions - I've been busy on implementing my webpages to a new web portal structure.
This is the latest updated page (beware - many links are still dead, but will be corrected the coming month). Members features are not available, yet.
The long text on the "Postcards" entry page (the one I've linked to) is completely new - directly of the press, so to speak. {:o)

A good continuation to you all!

August 10, 2003 Prometheus

Back to Newbie Questions
I know this is called a Coil Line Pair Here
Its a line of color between a pair of Coil stamps,

What is this pair called WHAT
They are not coils yet they have the same type line??

Thanks

August 10, 2003 07:35 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Richard,
Thanks for your information. It led me to some interesting further information regarding the Tudway's Parham Plantation in Antigua. I've incorporated new information in the page.

August 10, 2003 Richard Frajola

Jim W Addressed to Tudway. That and the Codrington correspondence are two major sources of colvers from Antigua.

August 10, 2003 06.03 am Colin Judd UK (xzephyr) http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_stamps
 

Colin

August 10, 2003 03:56 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a stampless folded letter from Antigua to England in 1850. It was probably sent soon after the British G.P.O. took over the mail in Antigua. This SFL is a current target=blank>eBay offering.

August 10, 2003 Richard Vanger <wengier@bigfoot.com>

Forgeries
First.. I am not an expert!!!! Having reached 70 and having collected stamps for nearly 60 years, I have gathered a little knolege on stamps.
1..Forgery = Fraud = stealing somebodys work for gain, without the owners permision.
2..Selling forged articles without marking each one = fraud..
3..Selling these labels as,Reprodactions or nything else to the new and medium collectors is damaging to the hobby. When my grandson or his son inherits one of these items in my collection ( and it is not permenantly marked) he has no knollege of its value, only what the catalogue says. So not knowing he will try and sell it as a real thing.
That is why I prefer a bad copy of the real thing than any amount of forged spacefillers.
Richard V.
 

August 10, 2003 Dave P

Spam blocking
Those who have had difficulty getting email through might be interested in this news story. Among other things it details how AWOL is filtering spam.

August 10, 2003 0950 BST and Hot, Hot! Ed.B. No relation to the other B.

Ed

August 10, 2003 Roger Heath

Roger

August 10, 2003 Roger Heath

Vacation over early
Last night I noted an interesting phenomenon where riny didn't have any auctions on offer. As John points out below riny is back and has apparently spent his time wisely organizing his collection. The Swiss selection is wonderful. All the classics in row with identifying labels stuck directly over the cancels. I would have bid on this except I'm a cancel collector and can't read them. They all seem to start with "blo_". BTW - there are 16 genuine stamps ( the #63 & #64 are real but the values are in the cancels which are always questionable, this series being notorious for having forged cancels), 12 facsimiles blob cancels, and 2 Strubels (the blue most likely a one margin #21and the green 40 centimes too difficult to determine margins.) I must say it is difficlut to say which is the best stamp in this collection.!!! Probably the set of 3 semi=postals which catalogue at $25.00 with legible CDS. Unprofessional opinion = Opening price off by 2 decimal points, and lot will sell for around $15.00 some day.

Roger

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=696&item=2945186393

August 10, 2003 David Benson

Maarten, they were from the changes that were made the last time he was NARUED. When he was reincarnated after a weeks penitence he made a few changes presumably to abide to a directive of Ebay.

David Benson

August 10, 2003 Maarten Willems

On Addie:
Did anybody ever ask Addie why he is SELLING things with 'NO MONETARY VALUE' (as he says in all his eBay descriptons)? I've always considered that a weird paradox.

August 10, 2003 David Benson

Just for the records, I did not bring up the subject of Addie or Larry. I think it is important that it be discussed from time to time especially as there are 10's of thousands of new Ebay users every day and most believe that the descriptions are correct.

All sellers on the US site state that the items that they are selling are genuine in all respect and that the descriptions are correct.

This is only one of the sellers who are blatantly disregarding that and has a couldn't care less attitude about flooding the market with worthless material that he admits that he is making himself.

Hopefully the APS will come down on him but there are many like him on other sites, especially Ebay Germany which has many modern day fakes listed. It will only be time before they are also stopped.

I also find it strange that a representative from the APS hasn't been sighted here or on Ebay Stamp Chat informing anyone what their plans where and the format how the system will work.

David Benson
 

August 10, 2003 George K

Are you saying there are lots of people on this board who have worse than Stolow??????

August 10, 2003 George K

Greg
There is only one Greg I have any truck with - St*l*w.

August 09, 2003 John

Rineys Bargain Fakes

August 09, 2003 John @ Magnolia Stamps

John in Ms.

August 09, 2003 22:41 Dave Frick (moderator)

For what it is worth, I think you are both talking about two different Gregs.

August 09, 2003 David Moser

David

August 09, 2003 1028p hobbes9324 <hobbes9324@aol.com>

fly-by-post rant
Sigh - in regards to the Robert E. Lee letter in question -

Lee letters are rare - Lee letters from the field are much rarer.
His handwriting is VERY consistant in all the copies of his letters that I have seen. While people's handwriting may vary slightly, especially over time, and as mentioned I make NO claims to being an expert in the area. I'm not blind, either.

His signature, which I have about 30 or so copies of on various documents, is always the same. It is not at all similar to the signature on the letter in question.

If the letter is real, it would be worth a significant amount of $$ -
much more than the $1000 or so some victim coughed up on Ebay.

I wouldn't use Addie's stuff to line my catbox at home, but if he wants to sell it, and his buyers are happy with what they get, I don't think it's any of my business. I DO think he should permanently mark his items for what they are, but that's just my opinion. Likewise, if the person who bought the Lee letter frames it and tells his family and friends that it's real, and gets a thousand dollars of enjoyment out of it, good for him.

But don't pretend garbage is gold.

 

August 09, 2003 10:20 Dave Frick (moderator)

Brian: No apology necessary at all, and glad that you'll stay around. (I don't have your email, but feel free to email me if you'd like, and I can follow up with you a bit.)

NOIP: Thanks to others for your words of encouragement. Like others have said, I've learned so much from these boards, especially the old eBay board in its earlier incarnation. I didn't want to lose that opportunity, and that's why I took the plunge with this, that one day when things were getting really bad on eBay. Believe me, this is not an ego thing, and, indeed, I think about passing this on to, say, the EUSC as a group effort. Perhaps that will be worth exploring at some point. I ended up having to change my plans for today so that I could stay near a computer throughout the afternoon and evening.

As for people being granted forums, again, I'm not doing it because I think both sides of a controversial issue are perfectly correct. I'm doing it because I think, again, it is dangerous for me to allow someone to essentially make charges against another person without them being able to respond. However, if it turns out this is a problem for people here, then let me just turn this over to someone else who has no concerns about liability issues. I will not put myself at risk so that others can just fire off a comment willy-nilly. I hope I'm clear.
 

August 09, 2003 George K

The good thing about allowing him here this time is that, unlike the eBay board, he is on record now.

August 09, 2003 Fly-By-Post <Nobodys Business@urstuk.com> http://American Stamp@urstuk.com
 

Fly-By

August 09, 2003 David Moser <stamphick@dospalos.org>

David

August 09, 2003 Brian R

RogerFurthermore...I promise to quit calling you Rodger (had a college friend who spelled it that way).

August 09, 2003 Brian R

Most of all I'd like to appologize to David Frick. I know this board, is your personal creation, and I've been one of your most enthusiastic supporters. I'm sorry that it was me, that put you into the position of exercising the very thing, that inspired this boards existance. I will temper the enthusiasm, and hold my tounge when proper, from now on.

August 09, 2003 Rob Faux

Jim W-S Nice pickup.

August 09, 2003 Bill Weiss

Topics
I say "Amen" to Duncan's comments below. Indeed, we should discuss whatever topic "floats the boat" of the party discussing. I just found the Addie thing going back & forth endlessly as getting nowhere so long as the honorable board members are telling him what a crook he is and him denying it and refusing to do anything about his selling operation. If we thought for one second that he would mark his junk on the back so that no-one else can get hurt after the initial sale, I would say go at him, but it is obvious we are treading water.

August 09, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

roger

He wasn't entirely a snipper, but close enough.
BTW Scott is grossly underpriced and in case anyone is worried, I know it isn't 13f/12f 1935 litho (approx $240 per single).

August 09, 2003 Rob Faux

D.D. Interesting comments nicely said.


Something we all easily forget is that there is an unending cycle of new people entering any hobby that need to hear the things that have been said before. For those of us who have seen it before, it can get old. The trick is to keep it clear and useful, while still maintaining an undertone of welcome and helpfulness to those who want to learn and be a part of the community.

But for the help of some wonderful people, online forums such as this - and my own innate curiosity - I would still be completely lost in this hobby. (as if I know what I'm doing now)

I am still painfully aware of how much I don't know - but I AM proud of how much MORE I DO know now - just a few years after getting into this hobby seriously.

Rob

August 09, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Ethics and this board
I quit coin collecting a few years ago due to abuses in the hobby... whizzed and doctored coins, the outrageous amount of stuff produced by the US Mint to milk profits from collectors... and switched to stamps in 1982.

It was very discouraging to discover the abuses taking place in this hobby as well, and as a result I limited myself to harmlessly collecting common stamps and just enjoying the pure fun of it, stopping entirely for several years at a time but always coming back to the hobby.

One of the biggest eye openers for me though was learning of the sensorship on eBay and the subsequent establishment of this site.

Yes, there are problems in stamp collecting just as there is in coins, antiques, collectible cards, and so on. And if those problems cannot be discussed here, then where???

Thank you so much Dave and all you folks who provide this forum and take part here, you have no idea of the real influence you have on neophites like me. Here at this site we can learn about some of the abuses of the hobby, but also we find so many great links to the "good folks" and their contributions to the hobby. Things like Jim Griffith's album site (my personal favorite site), and sites for Confederate stamps, Paolo's stuff, the common sense direction given to us by guys like Bill Weiss and others who understand the business portion of our hobby as well as their ncredible knwledge of the stamps and history itself.

But I feel that we all have a responsibility to address the problems that occur, even if we can't make them go away completely. Apathy certainly is not part of the solution. Trust me, the cops get tired of fighting the thieves, spouse abusers, white collar criminals, drug pushers, and the rest of the dregs of society, and they also know that they will never "win" their fight, the trouble makers will always be there. That is no reason to abandon the battle.

If questionable items and questionable ethics regarding eBay sales are going to be discussed, some people will obviously be revealed as unethical (or worse). I say "Good". If cockroaches scatter when the light hits them, lets open the door.

Brian, have a frosty beverage of your choice and take a break if needed, and check out some of the good things happening in our hobby. But don't give up the fight.

Thanks to y'all for listening and contributing.

Duncan

August 09, 2003 Bill Weiss

Lee Letter
The R.E.Lee letter sold on ebay was not even remotely genuine, and despite that fact, many folks bid on it, apparently oblivios to the fact that it was fake. These are the kind(s) of items that really bother me, where a buyer gets taken (in this case) for well over $1,000. The fact that Brian R. was good enough to contact the winner is a credit to him.
One school of thought is, of course, "buyer beware" where it is the responsibility of the buyer to educate himself as to the authenticity of what he is buying BEFORE he plunks down his money, and if he fails to do so, well, too bad for him. Personally, I feel that a buyer of ANY product should have the legal (and certainly moral) right to expect that what he buys is "as decribed" - in this case, a genuine R.E.Lee ALS, and if, for whatever the reason, he receives sometrhing other than a genuine R.E.Lee ALS, he should be entitled to the full protection of the law, as well as his fellow human beings, in this case, Brian R's intervention, and to hell with ebay's rules.

August 09, 2003 548p hobbes9324 <hobbes9324@aol.com>

Robert E Lee letter
Just in passing, I dug thru some of my philatelic literature and found an interesting article in an edition of the STAMP SPECIALIST, written in 1946 (India Edition) in which the lead article is entitled "The Field Letters of Robert E Lee" - with photographs of two letters written by Lee in 1862 and 1863. While I make no claim of being a handwriting expert, the two in the book are as far as I can see identical to one another in terms of handwriting. Not surprisingly, the letter recently sold on Ebay is not remotely similar. Not that this will keep idiots from running off at the mouth about it's being genuine, of course. No need to let facts get in the way......

August 09, 2003 Paolo Bagaglia

I moslty agree with David B.'s statements on his USEFUL TO PHILATELY campaign against illustrations (or something very similar to auction catalogue pics) offered as collectibles -- this is unrefutably clear (I have examined some of that stuff in the flesh) -- and I feel I should thank very much Dave F. for his contributions of any kind and for having created and being mainteining this board, always fully agreeing with his interactions with it. Well done!!!

Off for holidays, Paolo (I will look forward to read from some of you in September)

August 09, 2003 Bill Weiss

Addie, Etc.
I have stayed out of this discussion because I feel the situation being discussed so vehemently by all parties, is at the moment, unresolvable, and much time and talent can be wasted in trying to resolve what can not, at the moment, be resolved. I tend to agree with Mike Engel who says that constant whining about Addie & his products does not obviously, produce a satisfactory result for those who are complaining. Only formal action can accomplish what this board can not, so to beat this subject to death is, in my view, unrewarding.
In my heart, I agree with Brian, and would not want him, and his interesting posts, to depart because he feels slighted. He is a valuable contributor here. He is frustrated because he wants to "call a spade a spade" and he's being slapped on the wrist. I feel his pain. This guy (Addie) surely knows in his heart that what he does and the product he produces, is garbage. That does not bother him, and all of the moaning from this board won't change it, so let's move on, and not give him a forum to attempt to defend what can not morally be defended. If he honestly felt that his creations were being marketed in an honest way, he would have no problem at all so marking them on the back for what they are, but he will not address that obvious solution, for obvious reasons. Everyone who is honorable here, which is most of the participants, can vow to get this guy if and when the time comes, in a proper forum, through a proper complaint procedure. Next topic????
 

August 09, 2003 Roger Heath

Deletions
David -
Your Board, your call.
I promise I will never second guess your judgement, even if you unfairly delete one of my sarcastic, derogatory, personal attacks.
);>)
Brian -
You need a little time on the beach, it would be criminal to waste part of the summer stuck inside reading posts on a computer screen.

Roger

August 09, 2003 Brian R

I do, and shall, respect the fact, that this IS your board. If you think my comments go to far, I will live with the deletions, or honor your request to leave.

August 09, 2003 Brian R

Marius It would seem that a person gleefully telling a room full of people, that he has committed criminal acts, and intends to keep doing so, is a personal claim to the title.

August 09, 2003 Michael Engel

Fakes and forgeries
Roger--Confirms my suspicions and I certainly agree with your evaluation of these dealers.

August 09, 2003 Richard Frajola

David Frick I feel for your dilemna. I, for one, think you did the proper thing in deleting posts that you, at your sole discretion, felt should be deleted. It is YOUR board.
 

August 09, 2003 Marius

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think you can call anybody a criminal until they have been convicted of a criminal act.

August 09, 2003 David Benson

Dave and Brian,

This board was set up becuase of the problems with Ebay Chat and especially the REPORT button which was used whenever any subject was broached that offended Ebay.

I agree that personal attacks should not be allowed but comments about material should be openly discussed especially when an admitted forger brags about what he is doing.

I have personally met one of his customers who spent over $ 1000 on his material with the hope of keeping some for his collection and disposing of the balance. When they arrived he realised that they were modern manufactured instead of being of the period that was alluded to in the description and communication. They were given to his local club for wall display purposes.

Ebay has been asked many times if they could have an expert on call or staff that could make decisions that Safeharbor couldn't. It is fairly easy to divide material into three groups, definite fake, possible fake and genuine. All material in group 1 should be delisted immediately.

David Benson (who will leave you alone for the rest of the day).

August 09, 2003 Roger Heath

Fakes and forgeries
Michael-
They have cornered the market and are now able to offer such a mix of quality that one should avoid most of those auctions unless one truely really totally undescribably believes the guarantee claim or has a lot of money to burn. I can think of other dealers who I would go to and willingly give them my money knowing without a doubt they are honest. They are not claiming ???, "as is",or nor returns on these items.

Excuse me, my printer is warm and ready to execute some prime examples of philatelic art. Since Ebay now has a specific category, I've just got to find appropriate items to fake. Piece of cake!!!

Roger

August 09, 2003 Brian R

Am I, or am I not, responsible for my own words?.

August 09, 2003 16:07 Dave Frick (moderator)

Brian: It's not wishy-washy political correctness. I bet if you'll step back from this a bit, you may be able to think of other reasons why I'd be concerned about leaving such remarks out there.

August 09, 2003 Michael Engel (joehill)

Fakes and forgeries
Incidentally, my own collection is pre-1940 worldwide (not US). So I like the discussions of detecting old forgeries, and I enjoy people showing off their items, like the daily covers. Incidentally, I'd certainly like to know why it seems harder to find these collections on eBay--I used to see non-dealers offer these regularly, and I got some nice items at good prices. Now it's just manth, roecy, nystamp, rubystamp and the like. Is this my imagination, or did the market dry up?

August 09, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Michael
I cannot disagree with you!

August 09, 2003 Michael Engel (joehill) <mengel44@aol.com>

Fakes and forgeries
Jim W-S

I see where you're coming from, but I only get involved if the seller is clearly inexpert--in such cases, I am actually educating someone. I avoid confronting the obvious frauds. And I don't have any sympathy for people with thousands to spend who don't try to educate themselves--I assume they're not spending baby's milk money, and they deserve to learn the hard way, as many of us have.

August 09, 2003 Brian R

Goodbye all--Brian

August 09, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Fakes and Facsimiles

Its unfortunate that some messages have been deleted...

Has anyone explained yet why these products should not be marked as fakes, facsimiles or copies?

I still prefer to consider them forgeries if they carry a country name and denomination but are not legitimate products of that country's postal sysytem.

Oh, by the way, since they are not marked to avoid confusion as to whether they are real or fakes, what would happen if some were used as postage?

And would the liability extend to the producers and sellers of the items, particularly since they deliberately decide NOT to identify their works?

Sorry if I've raised old and tired questions, I'm kinda new to this stuff.

Duncan

August 09, 2003 15:45 Dave Frick (moderator)

Mr. ADT & others: I am trying to read each post carefully to determine whether or not it describes or criticizes the "activity" or the "product" versus the "person". I believe David was describing the products you are offering for sale, rather than calling you a name or describing some personal inadequacy.

Please free feel to email me with any posts made that you feel attack you personally.

To reiterate from the top of this page:

Differences of opinion do occur, but please use the powers of explanation, reason and learning to make your points and persuade your audience. More thinking is changed by the clear exchange of ideas rather than by emotion and vitriol. Please avoid the use of profanity and personal attacks.
 

August 09, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Michael
The "je m'en branle" attitude only works to a point.
You admit yourself to having taken action.
The fools have to be educated and the "illiterate cretins" who market the stuff may be semi-literate, but have sufficient intelligence to continue in their same old ways (adjusting where circumstances necessitate action).

August 09, 2003 05:39 Jim Watson

Lavar for Governor!
NOIP,
Our friend Lavar is getting into the news. Cheer him on!

August 09, 2003 Michael Engel

Forgeries & Fakes
Mr. Moderator: Forgive my exaggeration. Of oucrse,everyone has the right to say what they please, and I know I can raise my own topics. But I honestly think there's too much antagonism on this board, and a lot of it comes from these fights over adtinvest and the like. I don't think it's out of line to suggest to people to think whether this line of discussion is useful or enlightening. I sure don't learn much from them, and I think "newbies" are simply put off by it.

August 09, 2003 ATD INVESTMENT

DAVID FRICK
I understand but if youwant to be fair you should delete some statement from DAVID BENSON which is attacking since the biginning and you have done nothing about.If you want me to participate in this forum you have to be fair with everybody not with few.I am just defending myself.Most of the people in this chat when it comes to Larry or me they no manners and not education whatsoever.ATD

August 09, 2003 15:23 Dave Frick (moderator)

Michael: I would beg to differ with you, it's not "always the same thing". A number of different subjects have been discussed here, and you're free to introduce a philatelic topic as well.

Without these kinds of discussions, I don't know how people learn more about their fields, and are able to make more informed and discerning purchases over time.

Again, please feel free to share something of your collecting interests, ask a stamp-related question, etc.

August 09, 2003 15:15 Dave Frick (moderator)

Mr. ATD: I'm afraid that I am going to remove your remarks as well, because this is clearly a personal attack and not at all related to the issues.

Please feel free to explain why you do what you do philatelically, how you do it, or whatever else, but a personal attack on someone else is not appropriate here. And to demonstrate my fairness, I did just delete someone else's remarks that were of a personal nature about you.

August 09, 2003 315 PM Michael Engel (joehill) <mengel44@aol.com>

Forgeries, fakes, etc.
Every so often I wander onto this board. And it's always the same thing--people getting their bowels into an uproar about the chiselers who sell fakes, forgeries, etc., and the morons who buy them. Now, I understand that serious collectors want to protect the integrity of their chosen field of collecting. I collect political items as well, and the same issue applies there. I see forgeries and fantasies of presidential pinbacks all the time on eBay, and sometimes I contact the seller if I really think he/she is ignorant. But does this problem really warrant these endless (and tiresome) debates and discussions? If people insist on being fools, you won't stop them. And if these illiterate cretins who market the stuff make money on it, you won't stop them either. Who are you trying to protect, and why? So--collect, enjoy, and discuss philately. Don't waste time interfering with the love affair between the crooks and their suckers.
If some moron wants to buy that phony Robert E. Lee letter, let him. He's happy and it doesn't affect you.

August 09, 2003 15:12 Dave Frick (moderator)

Brian: I hope you understand, but I had to delete some of your post. I understand your point, but I felt you were going beyond the bounds of the issues and making an allegation, and I just don't think this can be permitted here.

On a similar note, I do think it's really important for anyone, including Larry and ATD, to be able to give their perspectives as well, and they are welcome to do so.

As long as anyone's remarks stay on the issues and not go personal, they are welcome here.

And I will remind the board at large that this is a public site, and that you are personally responsible for your remarks.

I will do everything I can to keep this a level playing field for all participants.
 

August 09, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

You mean theseMen in Black?

August 09, 2003 Brian R

Maybe you could explain to me, how someone like that, is as good for our hobby as he claims?

August 09, 2003 David Benson

Brian, if he agreed to your suggestion there might be a knock on the door in the middle of the night by some men in uniform.

David Benson

August 09, 2003 Brian R

Maybe he'll explain to us, just what it is, that keeps him out of that market. :o)

August 09, 2003 David Benson

Richard, that varies with what he tells his buyers. He tells them he bought them in the 1970's in South America. (amongst other fictional stories).

David Benson

August 09, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

RW - Since he has made it pretty clear that he is the manufacturer of these "products", then I see no problem using his id even in the title, since that is the name he is producing them under. I see it as no different than offering a "Ford car", or a "Barbie doll". It could read "atdinvest fake", with a full description of what exactly the item is, without even a hint of a personal attack. If he wants to be famous, so be it.

August 09, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

christo
Thank you very much for the stamps in todays mail.

August 09, 2003 David Benson

I am sure that Addie is on the APS hit list and that his time on Ebay will be limited. The sooner he is out and that type of material banned from Ebay the better and safer Ebay will be to the stamp community.

David Benson

August 09, 2003 RW

One suggestion, would it be allowable and feasible to insert very similar listings, timed to end a few seconds prior or subsequent to his, in the same categories, with one of his own reproductions (ideally the very same one for sale) offered BUT with full disclosure and "FAKE" marked on the back? Enough keywords perhaps including "adtinvest" that gullible newbies reading down the list would feel compelled to click onto the public info version?

August 09, 2003 12.32 pm Colin Judd UK (xzephyr)

Colin

August 09, 2003 Prometheus

Larry = a thought
I needed at least two of the items you have listed But Now I wonder are they real, guess I'll find them elsewhere.

August 09, 2003 David Benson

Larry, I had a look at your other listings and you have some nice material which should sell at respectable prices. The prints you listed will drag you down and give you a bad name. It is unlikely that any will sell and it will cost you time and money. Donate them to your local stamp club as reference material to warn new collectors of the dangers in collecting and especially from buying on Ebay.

David Benson

August 09, 2003 David Benson

Addie, don't you feel sorry for the poor saps who got conned into buying these fake covers,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3488&item=2943957588

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3488&item=2944296473

They are not up to you usual " high " class of work, just fake handstamps on genuine covers.


p.s. when you list the material, do you read the note that states that you believe the item to be genuine,


David Benson

August 09, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Shameless behavior

Larry, there's an old expression, "if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger".

Since you have chosen to lecture me on shame, I feel the need to respond.

You have chosen to give no answer to the repeated question about why you don't mark your items as fakes or facsimiles. So the only conclusion apparent to me is that you recognize that the only "value" in these items is that eventually they can be sold to some gullible victim as real. I've seen the comparison of the real stamp vs a copy, and the "artwork" is obviously of no value.

So if you choose to put up a smoke screen by ignoring that simple "facsimile" question and instead providing a lecture on shame, believe me I know whose behavior is shameless.

Actually I am amazed that you have appeared here. Actually I sense that you have a conscience and that your statements here are meant to rationalize (to yourself) why it is OK to sell your items.

I hope you take a second look at yourself in the mirror, I still maintain that there is hope for you yet.

Here endeth the lesson for today.

Duncan

"If we have free speech, why do I keep getting a phone bill?"

August 09, 2003 Roger Heath

ATDINVESTMENT
DDT is popular in many countries!! I don't happen to think its a good choice, therefore, agree with the ban on its use in the US and other countries. It may serve an immediate purpose, but the long term consequences are detrimental to the environment.

I find it interesting that whenever one of your items comes up for discussion we seem to be talking about your product and you always talk about us. This is where you and I are different. I'm quite willing to discuss production methods, business plans, your effect on the hobby, etc. with you, but you never respond to any philatelic questions. Why the secrets? Why not talk about your products and how you determine the collectability of them. I'm certainly not envious or frustrated (other than deciphering some of your rambles).

I am still waiting to see some of your Cuban - African military postal history, if it exists. That is somehting we could discuss without becoming personal. Since I've never seen any offered on Ebay, I might assume it could realize quite high prices, relieving you of all the hours at the scanner and printer.

Roger

August 09, 2003 Prometheus

Larry Question
As a newbie to stamp collecting I love to read as much as I can about this hobby.
What other Chat boards do you read.
I feel that your listings are clearly described for what they are but would like to see them marked also just so my kids don't get burned 20 years from now trying to fill the Holes I will leave in my album.

August 09, 2003 ATDINVESTMENT

ROGER
Mr.Roger.-
If my stamps are of so poor quality as you stated why are so popular all over the world?Doyou want to knowwhat is your problem and the others cavemen like David Benson and followers,that is envy and frustration because you lack the knowledge to do it and the only thing you and your "friends" do is to attack nand guess.Discussing with you is a wasting of time,and insulting my intelligence trying to explain whatis done.
Larry don't waist time this people lack the intelligence to understand any discussion is like talking to a wall.ATD

August 09, 2003 Brian R

John in MsYou have several R.E.Lee letters? Please do display them along with those multiple #39 covers you have. Yes, I'm so certain that that letter is a fake I AM prepared to eat my socks. Go wonder through some on-line cats, You can find Lee's signature on hand carried letters from as early as the 1850's. every one of them displays the same upright awkward "R" To find a "new" letter from Lee, from the period when he was wearing grey, especially one of such import, is as unlikely beyond description. Certainly not to be played out on ebay.

As for the two CSA #11f's you showed me, There is a reason that I gave you my opinion privately. I DONT THINK THEIR REAL. I also gave you the reasons why, and links to places, and other real ones, so you could come to the determination yourself, without me seeming to be the bad guy. Congradulations, on selling them to some poor sap instead,....you should be proud.

August 09, 2003 Roger

Manners
Larry -
Since you are now here and involved in the discussion of your items, why don't you mark them on the back with the traditional word used for your type of items - "facsimile". This is the traditional means of describing a reproduction that is made from modern materials and from modern techniques. Forgeries were attempts to duplicate the originals, yours obviously aren't because the quality isn't there and the technique is wrong. Fakes are contrived items that didn't exist, most of Addies early work fits into this category, his current work resembles poor computer scans of drawings of stamps. (Did you see my post below where I compar4ed an Addie to the real stamp.) Perforations in paper doesn't make it stamp, adhesive on the back of a printed page doesn't make it a stamp. A picture of a stamp isn't a stamp, so your auctions are not forgeries.
My commentary of your auctions: When the only person supporting you in your "right" to sell these things is Addie, you really should be reevaluating your place in the history of stamp collecting. Addie knows his!! Please think about yours.
Roger

August 09, 2003 Prometheus

Todays Mail 1895 St Louis
Nice little Postal Card can't find my book to give # but I like the crisp killer Boone

August 09, 2003 Larry

Larry

August 09, 2003 16.50 GMT Alec (infla-alec)

Auction Interference
I buy mainly from the European ebay and there it is considered good manners for someone to inform a bidder or seller that something they are buying / selling is being discussed in chat room "x".
I personally have informed many sellers that item "y" is in my opinion forged. I then also tell them why I think that is the case and refer them to the relevant literature. I have also been the recipient of some expert opinions on material that I have had for sale. In such cases I add that opinion to the auction listing and find that the buyer is very happy also to know the reason why it is considered a forgery.
In 99% of cases both seller and buyer appreciate the input. Remember that not every seller / buyer is an expert. We all have had to learn about our own speciality somewhere, sometime, be it now or 60 years ago.
Yes there are cases of some selling blatant forgeries and that is another matter entirely.

August 09, 2003 john @ magnolia stamps

Just my 2 cents worth.......John

August 09, 2003 07:19 AM Jim Lawler <jlawler@comteck.com>

Jim L.
 

August 09, 2003 7.09am PT Paul Barsdell <paul.b@webone.com.au>

Paul

August 09, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

jimbo
Sort of ebonics run rife?

Seriously, spelling changes frequently support a major societal change, e.g., Peking to Beijing.
Mapmakers, particularly ocean-going map makers liked to be consistent.
Admitedly such was not the case up until the 19th century when maps were closely guarded secrets, particularly in this part of Africa.
But by 1875 the geography of the west African coast was pretty well known to the western world.
I would imagine that the position of postmaster was a fairly well-respected job and one occupied by a person of above average literacy, so the reason(s)for the changes are not immediately obvious.

August 09, 2003 06:14 Jim Watson <`>

Jim W-S,
I would venture the suggestion that the evolution of the spelling was successive attempts of English-speakers to anglicize the sounds of another language. I suspect that some of the overlap was due to the frugality of the postmasters in making do with what was available. It is also possible that the clerks did not recognize a difference between handstamp 1 and handstamp 2.

August 09, 2003 06:08 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Paul,
Thanks for that information. I think that pretty much confirms the history of the Quittah post office. It is interesting to watch the western world decide how to spell local names in non-western locales.

August 09, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Paul
Any idea why?

August 09, 2003 5.47am PT Paul Barsdell <paul.b@webone.com.au>

Paul

August 09, 2003 04:13 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a postal card from China to Germany in 1901. It was sent without a stamp as Feld Post.
 

August 09, 2003 02:48 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

Business is Slow
In the last two weeks, about 10 percent of listings sold for about a tenth of catalog. Lots of work and high listing fees. Guess is that listing and the paltry final value fees were higher than gross profit on the ten percent of ten percent. Time for vacation. Guess who?

August 08, 2003 Roger Heath

Interesting
This is an interesting find.

 

August 08, 2003 8:40PM Bill Weiss

Auction Interference
DAVID; If I understand correctly, it is not only an ebay violation to interfere in an auction, it is also civil law. Any interference in ANY transaction is taboo. That said, I would be interested in hearing an attorney explain to us why it STILL is or is not auction interference even to suggest to the winning bidder to just "drop by" our little chat board and see the folks talking about the bogus item you just bought?

Now I am done for the night.

August 08, 2003 Bill Weiss

BRIAN; Yes, perhaps that was a bad example since the letter definately added substantial value, but I have seen similar poor-quality common designs go for $30+, which amazes me since I have trouble getting $35-45. for somwhat scarcer in nice condition - and I wrote a book on the subject!
DAVID; Please understand that I would not just barge at a buyer, but indeed would use as much soft-sell as possible. A guy who paid nearly full Scott value for a US 10cent 1847 with pen cancel and cataloged by the seller for full CV was simply asked by me if he was aware that a US #2 with pen cancel cataloged $800?? That's it.
In the case of the Lee bogus ALS, if it were me, I might just tell the buyer that I was strongly considering bidding on it too, until I checked it against proven Lee signatures and, gosh, I just didn't think they looked the same, and well, since I'm no expert, I was afraid to bid, so gee wiz, I wish I had YOUR courage to bid on such an item for such a big amount of money.....or some such approach.
I know you mean well, David. We are all here because we care, otherwise why waste the time?
 

August 08, 2003 Brian R

Bill W I have to side with alison on that union patriotic. The existance of the letter kind of muddles things on how much the bidders valued the cover. I'm not really good on them, but personally, I'd say thats a $10-12 cover, tops. I see that design at almost every show I go to (and that one is battered).

August 08, 2003 Brian R

If I get in trouble...I'll tell 'em, "Benson made me do it"!

August 08, 2003 David Benson

Brian, anything that might hinmder the sale, whether before or after is considered Auction Interference. Just a tactful note might help like,

" I noticed that you bought a Robert E Lee signed letter. This is being discussed on XXXXXXXXXX and some of the comments might interest you. It may be to your benefit if you read the comments and joined in.

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Civil War Patriotic cover with letter
Bill W: That letter sold so high because it was listed under Civil War Militaria in Collectibles. The letter alone, without the cover, if it had been transcried would probably have sold for twice that amount.

August 08, 2003 Brian R

sincere appologies for the syntax of that post, but the sentiment comes through...

August 08, 2003 Brian R

Technically, isn't the auction concluded? How could ebay consider it interference (either way) at this point?

August 08, 2003 David Benson

Bill, I am not scolding you, I am just mentioning it. I don't do it directly as I just mention to the buyer that they should come here or to Ebay Chat where he can ask questions regarding the authenticity. To mention directly that the item is crap and that is passed on to the seller is just asking for trouble,

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Bill Weiss

Civil War Patriotics
BRIAN R; look at ebayitem #2186316322 for a good example of what I was speaking about the other day. Crap quality bid too high. Can't figure it out.

August 08, 2003 Bill Weiss

DAVID; I have done it quite a few times, and frankly, I don't care if it constitutes interference. Further, I believe you have told me on previous posts that you do it too - so why are you scolding me??

August 08, 2003 David Benson

Bill, what you are suggesting is called Auction Interference and is harshly dealt with by Ebay if the seller complains,

David Benson

August 08, 2003 David Benson

Chris, presumably the figure of 500 full time employess in Trust and Safety is a slight exageration, he most probably siad they need 500 full time employess instead of the 2 part timers they have now. What they need is a full time philatelic advisor who can act as a go between Ebay and APS.

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Bill Weiss

Lee ALS
BRIAN R.; I saw that listing and immediately knew it was bogus. Sure, the bidders were fools, but I do think someone might consider contacting the winning bidder and SUGGESTING that he might consider having the item authenticated, or whatever, to enable him to either get his money back or cancel the sale. I feel that if someone at least tells the winning fool that something may be amiss, then if the buyer ignores the info, all that could be done, was done.

August 08, 2003 Chris Ceremuga

swastikas in postmarks
I suspect that summary of what was allegedly said at the APS lunch might be totally incorrect / misquoted. Almost all the figures quoted seem to be totally wrong "eBay is on track to sell $21 billion in merchandise this year" (!!!) so the other information is probably totally wrong as well. One needs to speak to somebody from the APS who we know who was actually there.

August 08, 2003 David Benson

Alison, judging by his comments it appears that he has little philatelic knowledge. There is no reason why the term WWII was mentioned, Swastikas were used on stamps, cancels, cachets, censor markings and censor tapes before and during WWII. It might be better if someone that knows the subject could handle Ebay's answers otherwise it would never be finalised.

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Swastikas in cancels and censor tape
David: I am going to send him some scans, and then call him Monday morning on his direct line and just pin him down on this. It irritates me that he said something different at the APS lunch than he put in writing to me.

August 08, 2003 David Benson

Alison, also ask him about German censor marks with the emblem.

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Alison Ruttenerg

Swastika in postmark Update
It was Dan Neary who spoke at the APS Luncheon, not Dan Cleary. It was Dan Neary who I had the email exchange last week about the Swastikas, and he explicitly told me in writing that Swastikas in cancels were not allowed. Therefore, this contradicts what he said in his speech at lunch. So, I emailed him again and asked him to clarify about Swastikas on cancels on stamps and covers. As usual, I only got half a response. He responded with this: "A swastika cancellation mark on an real WWII stamp is okay." But, this still does not answer the question about the Swastika on the cover itself. With most Third Reich cancels, especially the commemorative ones, only a piece of the cancel itself is on the stamp and the rest of the cancel, where the swastika is, is on the cover. I emailed him again and he has not responded to the question about covers.

August 08, 2003 David Benson

roger, looks like the description did not attract many viewers. Anyone who collects Switzerland would have jumped on it just for washing the stamps off to get nice cancelled stamps at a bargain price.

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Brian R

With out it my collection, would be a lonely, barren, place. ;o)

August 08, 2003 Roger Heath

I didn't mention that the lower three cards appear to have the special 1932 Geneva Peace Conference cancel. It's difficult to tell, the scan isn't sharp enough.

August 08, 2003 Roger Heath

Sellers without catalogues
This seems an appropriate point to share a new aquisition. I would have thought that a seller would have been curious enough to have checked the stamps on these cards. So, we don't necessarily need all sellers to be 100% experts in every category!!! Those of us who are treasure hunters must have opportunity once in a while. It will be very interesting to discover the true tone of these cards.
Roger
 

August 08, 2003 Brian R

Of course, it was likely the Ohio thing, that focused him in on it.

August 08, 2003 nomad55

That was Matt. He also has the nasty habit of finding good stuff where the dealer totally overlooks the major selling point.

August 08, 2003 Roger Heath

Clear Scans
You guys sure are getting picky!! );>)

August 08, 2003 Brian R

Nomad I forget...was it you, or Matt L. that found the Sherman letter about six months back?

August 08, 2003 Brian R

O.K....here is a genuine R.E. Lee signature which is swipped from a Siegels's catalog. You can see it's way different, and the genuine is from only three weeks earlier.

August 08, 2003 nomad55

Brian - I'm not a handwriting expert either, but having done more than my share of historical research, I've got a good idea on what to look for. Every so often I can pull off ebay an envelope written by someone of note based on the handwriting, info that the seller does not know - for example, one envelope addressed by Mrs Jefferson Davis, and another addressed by Mrs Ulysses Grant. Both have subsequently been re-sold.

August 08, 2003 Brian R

All I had to see was the "R" to seal it for me. I'm not a handwritting expert, but Lee used a upright blocky sort of R. It was kind of half cursive and half print, very destinctive anyway, and very different, than the item.

August 08, 2003 nomad55

I sure would want a closeup of the signature that I can compare to genuine Lee items pictured in catalogs.

August 08, 2003 Rob Faux

Brian One would think they would also want clearer scans...and that they might wonder about the sale without returns being allowed?

$$ != brains

I guess some people in this world don't think $1K is much money.

August 08, 2003 Brian R

Maybe, i'll contact the underbidder, and try to sell him a bridge. He still has some $$ left LOL

August 08, 2003 Brian R

The only thing I can positively assert, is that is NOT his signature, and I'll eat my socks if its even a period item.

August 08, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Swastika in postmark
David: I just sent an email to the person who responded to my questions in writing about the Swastika and asked for a clarification as to what the new policy is. I want it in writing before I start listing my WWII fieldpost covers again.

August 08, 2003 Roger Heath

Ebay statistics
David -
The numbers certainly can't be trusted! I have just dealt with selling GB stamps from a colelction, and gathering stuff for my Swiss collection, so broadness is very limited. I've done deals with people in 28 different countries!! Ooops, Ebay!! Maybe Ebay doesn't recognize a country when a person signs in. I know I have difficulty working around some signin features of websites where it doesn't allow a hyphenated city. Kailua-Kona is the official PO designation of my "city", so I can imagine some of the workarounds for citizens of other countries that don't use the US address system.

As to active users - I wonder if that is different ID's or email addresses, or what!

The members of the Trust and Safety Department must all have been to Hogwart's, and wearing their invisibility cloaks.

I'm off to challenge some more windmills before dark.

Roger

August 08, 2003 David Benson

I presume some of the details are wrong, without checking there are must be more than 27 different countries, would be closer to 100.

The comment about Swastikas is about the opposite what an Ebay spokesman told Allison and I won't even comment on the fact that 27% of all parcels in Germany are Ebay related, most probably closer to .0027%.

Anyone want to count 30,000 categories, sounds like someone has their decimal points mixed up.

David Benson

August 08, 2003 David Benson

roger, some interesting announcements, some of them should have been mentioned on Ebay announcements,

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Louise

Roger -

Shouldn't think there'd be a problem. Might even get some cross-pollination of boards, although it really is dedicated to US matters, some of quite technical nature. However at the moment I can't get enough of reading about stamps.

Talking of which, having slowly come back to eBay in the last week or so, I am now at the critical juncture: sign back in and risk a repeat of last year's financial debacle, or stand forever on the sidelines looking at all the nice pretty bits of paper going past my eyes?!

Sigh. I guess I shall just have to do the Right Thing and abstain for a while longer.

August 08, 2003 Roger Heath

Virtual Stamp Forum
Louise - Thanks for the link to the forum. The most interesting comments were from Lloyd of Lloyd Stamps concerning APS - Ebay partnership. I hope it is OK to quote his message (and I hope the HTML pastes appropriately):


Dan Cleary, head of eBay's Collectibles division, spoke at the APS Affiliates and Chapters Luncheon Friday. Some notes:

eBay is on track to sell $21 billion in merchandise this year. If it were a country, that would make it the 15th largest
country in the world. It has 75 million active users (that is, some activity within the last 24 months), and gets 70,000
new users every day. There are 30,000 categories, and on any given day, 21 million items are being offered on eBay.
Users come from 27 different countries.

17% of all packags sent through the German mail system are eBay transactions!

As of last week, eBay now permits the sale of covers with a swastika in the cancellation. Stamps and coins have
always been exempt from eBay's swastika ban, but cachets are another matter.

Most of those "spoof" e-mail messages that claim to be from eBay come from Romania. eBay usually knows about
them within minutes of their transmission, and shuts them down...but it's still a big problem.

As of 3 weeks ago, you can no longer see e-mail addresses on eBay. The service has also announced that it will no
longer allow User IDs that mirror e-mail addresses. If you have one, you will be notified to change it.

40-60% of all items close within 7 days.

This APS-eBay partnership is pioneering for the rest of collectibles.

eBay employs 500 people full-time in its Trust & Security operations.

The stamps categories were recently changed; there will be more changes in a few weeks, and eBay is going to seek
APS input on future changes.

August 08, 2003 David Benson

Roger, most of Addies buyers are from outside the US and mainly bidding on material that they presume emanated from their own country but of course they have never seen them before and cannot locate any literature about it. I noticed that the APS already 8 experts in place to check US listings and that there expertise is US and that they hope to get some non US soon as that is where the majority of this type of material is.

Did you notice that some of the old material has come out of the woodwork, Specimen overprints and some of the old RF handstamps.

I suggest that every reader should look at every lot that he has listed to see how gullible Ebay buyers are,

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Roger Heath

Re: New fakes
David -
I looked at the many items Addie has for sale. It amazes me how many have 1 bid. In a "Private" auction there is no way of knowing whether there is only one stupid collector or a whole bunch!!!! My hope is that the winner of all the $6.99 auctions pays cash using a new $7.00 bill.

Roger

August 08, 2003 Louise Stanley

eBay
Found something that might be of interest:

Virtual Stamp Forum

August 08, 2003 David Benson

Me, there have been hundreds, maybe thousnads of letters sent to Ebay and they have all been ignored. It is just the problem that Ebay did not have anyone that had any (or almost any) philatelic background and had no idea what was a forgery or a photocopy. Now they have an arrangement with the APS (for material only listed on the US site) it may make a difference. I would not like to see all forgeries banned as in many cases they are an integral part of collecting and study. The APS has to make definite statements what is allowable in normal listing, under fakes and what should be banned. Until that is done then anyone can make whatever they like, list it and wait til the money rolls in.

The seller Atdinvest is selling other home made material apart from the ones under discussion. I suggest you look closely at some of the otehr material listed.

see.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=atdinvest&include=0&since=30&sort=3&rows=25

David Benson

August 08, 2003 Louise Stanley

Crna Gore and Oswiecim
Not knowing that "Oswiecim" and Auschwitz were the same places would be scandalous for a person who claims to know modern Poland! The stamp does have "Auschwitz" on it - though again it's mostly off the stamp; I was just surprised because it is quite near Katowice which I always thought of as in Germany in that period. But there you go - going to have to brush up on my Austro-Hungary knowledge, because I had great fun picking out from the 5p box in Reading all the A-H stamps with names of places that are now in Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic etc so that they could go into my collection as well as the countries' own issues.

Thanks for all your help. I'll have a look again - no access to scanner I'm afraid, out all day on a course and nothing except a printer here at the flat - but the Montenegro/Crna Gore explanation sounds the most likely; I may have misread the Cyrillic "P" as a "Ts/C" which would probably fit with the theory.

August 08, 2003 Brian R

If, as a hobby, we are to continue to argue what forgeries are O.K./not O.K., we run the risk of claiming we're "a little bit pregnant". For the sake of the hobby's future, now is the time, to wash our hands of all of it.

August 08, 2003 ME

JUST a Thought On these Fakes
Would it do any good for everyone to report/send a complaint to Ebay on these items, or just more banging of head on wall???
A lot of folks read this board and I was wondering if a concerted effort might help move them to the proper category.

August 08, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Regards, Christo

 

August 08, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 08, 2003 ATD INVESTMENT

DAVE FRICK (MODERATOR)
Mr.Frick .-
I am not taking my comments to any personal level Sir,just trying to be polite in front of so many insults.I think thatI withdraw from the chat,because is like talking to a wall,and is a wasting of time with no result in the matters.Thank you ATD

August 08, 2003 12:03 Dave Frick (moderator)

comments
Again, please, I ask to keep your comments focused on the issues being discussed, and to not take them to a personal level.

Thanks!

August 08, 2003 ATDINVESTMENT

QUESTION
Mr. RW -
By curiosity from what site of your bed did you wake up this morning? ATD

 

August 08, 2003 11.48 am Colin Judd UK (xzephyr) http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_GB_Machins/
 

Was I? Heck No! The first I heard of them was here on this board, regretfully.

August 08, 2003 ATD INVESTMENT

QUESTION
Mr.Peter Spencer.-
By curiosity,what did you have for breakfast this morning?ATD

August 08, 2003 Dave P (orthorpteran)

Colin Were you lucky enough to pick up a copy of the new £2.00 with missing "£"?

August 08, 2003 26:56 Peter Spencer

Sorry, RW! Your comment must have appeared while I was 'composing.'

August 08, 2003 Peter Spencer

ATDI Forgeries
Perhaps someone on this board has a U.S. legal background and can fill me in on these queries:

1) Doesn't Florida or the U.S. have laws against the production of forgeries?

2) If the first answer is yes, aren't the laws enforced?

3) If the answer to the second question is no, given the renown of the U.S. tort system for lawsuits, why hasn't anyone brought a civil damages class action suit against known forgers?

 

August 08, 2003 Colin Judd UK (xzephyr)

Colin

August 08, 2003 11.22 am Colin Judd (xzephyr) http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_Japan_stamps
 

Colin

August 08, 2003 RW

Bogus Stamps
Aren't there copyright laws that apply to this pointless drek from Florida? Certainly if a scan of an image from a catalog could be demonstrated, but also might a royalty be due under copyright laws for the engraving offices and/or the individual artist (engraver)?

August 08, 2003 Chris Ceremuga

Reproductions
Roger H, the poor resolution of the "product" leaves one name for such "reproductions" as far as I am concerned:

low quality color illustration

ie: it is not a forgery, and neither is it a postage stamp, so I fylly agree that it does not belong in the Ebay stamp categories (of course can be in the Cinderellas category)

August 08, 2003 Paolo Bagaglia

To All who partecipated to the poll Horse vs. Lion: I summarizized your kind replies here.

Thank you for the interesting website, Jim W-S!
Kind regards, Paolo
PS: ATDinvest -- It is totally useless for me to waste time to explain why your items are wrong and should be banned. In fact, I did so several other times in the past but you (along with some of the others) never took me in consideration. "Paganini" does (or tries not to) not repeat and doesn't like to hear echo's of his words! ;-)
 

August 08, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

August 08, 2003 Prometheus

Bogus Stamps
Are they Memeographs??

August 08, 2003 Roger Heath

Reproductions
I thought I'd illustrate (courtesy of Paul in Chicago) the "quality" of ATDINVEST art works. In case you have difficulty, the real stamp is on the left, the quality used on cover reproduction on the right!!

In my opinion the basic reason for creating a forgery is to deceive someone into thinking its something else.The historic legitimate forgeries were made to avoid payment of postal fees, or to fool collectors into thinking they were buying a valuable stamp. Classic "fakes" were made for collectors and sold at the time as "re-creations". Forgeries are collectable, classic fakes are collectable, but these were nearly all reproduced by original techniques and with original materials.
A picture of a stamp is not a forgery!!! It doesn't matter the method of printing since it is a picture of a stamp using wrong inks and wrong paper.
I believe that all Stamps items that are thought by the seller to be forgeries must be listed in the Cinderellas, Fakes Category. If a seller cannot determine through reasonable research, ie opening a catalogue, a possible logical ID for a stamp, it should be listed in the above category. It should be incumbent on a seller to have shown due care in offering an item for sale, or to have paqlced the item in the appropriate category.

Roger

August 08, 2003 Brian McInturff

Fakes, Forgeries, rubbish
larry and ATD Why are you so against putting facsimile on the back of these so called reproductions. After all, it isn't the real thing. It's a copy. Did the Post office authorize you to reproduce their material for resale? Hmmmm. One must ponder this.

August 08, 2003 Richard Frajola

Richard B I assumed that ebay was going to (if they haven't already) banned the sale of all "as is" items. As to forgeries being listed as genuine - that is where I hope for relief from APS involvement.

August 08, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Richard - I rather agree. That would eliminate alot of items being sold as forgeries. But, wouldn't that just increase the number of forgeries being listed as "genuine", "possibly genuine", "as is", "???", "cinderellas, "reprints", "I don't have enough knowledge", etc...., especially if ebay continues it's "we are not experts" stance?

August 08, 2003 Richard Frajola

PS - I have decided that ebay is quite likely to throw out the baby along with the bathwater and ban the sale of all forgeries. Although I think this is most unfortunate (as I have always liked pre 1870 forgeries as "history of stamp collecting"), I think that is the only reasonable solution.

August 08, 2003 Richard Frajola

ATD If, as you claim, scanned (digital) images are NOT used in the process, that leaves only one of the conventional photo processes. I know enough about printing to know that you do not have any "patented" process that only you use. If you use a photo process, that would make your "products" more similar to auction catalog illustrations.

Whichever of the known methods you are using, IF you clearly state rather tha beat around the bush, how (digital or photographically) and when (like made in 1999) the items were being produced, I think that you would receive a lot less grief.