StampChat Archives

Archive:  September 16 - 30, 2003

• Last updated:  20 March 2004

September 30, 2003 Roger Heath

Avoiding confusion, not~!
Check this seller's information.
Alison smile! Do you think this seller's attorney wrote the boilerplate, or do you think he made it up himself. I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole.
I'm only taking time to point it out because the first time I looked it didn't load the page then froze my computer, so figured he will need some free exposure. );>)

Roger

September 30, 2003 Ferd W

Alison R.- Suggest you go to "usps.com/clicknship" And understand the system ! You can use your Free Delivery Conformation label on 3rd class If you use a larger envelope and styrofoam of the required thickness.Gives the PP coverage needed.[Just like stamps-do your homework]. .LOL FW

September 30, 2003 21:07 Dave F. (moderator)

My second big "duh" moment of the evening ... Naturally, the second-highest bidder would be close. That's how the auctions work ...

Time to go recharge my brain cells.


Chris: Happy philatelic birthday! (I would have no idea how to pin a date on it for me. It's nice that you have.)

September 30, 2003 21:01 Dave F. (moderator)

Alison's lot
It also looks like the second-highest bidder went pretty high, too. Perhaps Alison could offer it under the "second chance" option (although it's been a few days since the auction ended).

Bill W: Good luck on your auction this weekend!

September 30, 2003 Brian R

BTW--I'm glad to see shipping on her lot is only 80c. So very refreshing to see a power seller, interested in selling items, instead of inflated shipping.

September 30, 2003 Bill Weiss

DAVE F; No, the high values of the Peace set are missing. They were NOT included in the offering. I can see where Charles may not realize that fact in just a quick look at the lot, but any serious bidder should easily realize that he's bidding on what is shown, nothing more. Like I said, perhaps including the catalog numbers of the pictured stamps may have helped make it even clearer, but I'm on her side with this one - unless I'M missing something?

Done for tonight.

September 30, 2003 Bill Weiss

ALISON'S SWISS STAMPS
CHARLES; What YOU are missing is that Alison DID deliver exactly what showed in the picture! She offered a PART set, as shown, and the buyer assumed he was getting the WHOLE set. She didn't do anything wrong. She never said the word "set" and she didn't show the entire set because that's not what she was selling. I don't see anything misleading or difficult to understand about the lot. Perhaps though, if she would have included the catalog numbers of the stamps for sale in that lot, it might have helped the buyer to more clearly understand what he was bidding on, but still, he got what was shown.

September 30, 2003 20:39 Dave F. (moderator)

Alison's lot
Charles: Perhaps I've misunderstood, but I thought the dispute was about whether or not all the stamps were mnh. It looks to me like 11 stamps were included in the lot, and that only one (the one with the inscription margin tab) were hinged. (I'm guessing that the one with the inscription margin tab is hinged on the tab rather than on the stamp, which is why the stamp is considered mnh.) I don't believe that there was any question whether or not all the stamps pictured were included with the lot.

Am I missing something?

September 30, 2003 Bill Weiss

NYFM Book
MIKE W; The book is $75. postpaid and comes with a handy smaller booklet which is good for carrying to shows for quick identification and rarity. No problem about the paperfold. Like I said, I run them all the time.
Mailing address is POB 5358, Bethlehem/PA, 18015

September 30, 2003 Charles L. Williams <cwilliam@joplin.com>

Alison's folly
Alison, you don't have anyone to blame but yourself. Your a bright person. You don't scan stamps that aren't for sale. I don't see your side of this argument. What am I missing? Pictures are worth a thousand words, but words are worth what?

September 30, 2003 Four Years Later Chris hot-naked-stamps.com
 

Happy Philatelic Birthday To Me
Well, we have come around to that part of the year that is my philatelic birthday.
Four years ago I realized that I was a stamp collector.
In that time I have learned a bunch and learned how little I know.
(Mostly by reading here and the eBay stamp chat.)
In that time I have put over 20,000 stamps into albums, most of which I
think are correctly Identified. Only 479,854 to go.
I've also noticed that a nice cancel on a used stamp pleases me much more than
a mint copy of the same stamp. This is good, because used stamps are generally cheaper
than mint ones.

Chris - current inventory at 20,854

September 30, 2003 Michael Walter

Bill Weiss
I want to hold on to this item as I like to collect older EFOs. I am interested in buying one of your books (NYFM) . My internet has been down for a couple of days so I missed your reply.

September 30, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Christo - I know what you are trying to say and generally I agree. But, Spanish collectors, especially those from overseas, seem more willing to pay higher %'s of CV for nice items. I know this because I routinely get outbid on stuff now, and I am usually willing to bid 75%+ of CV. There are alot more Spanish collectors on ebay now than a year ago. I also agree that collectors are probably only willing to pay 10-15% of CV for normal items, but what is normal?
The items I have in mind to try and re-sell are items that do not pop up on ebay very often ($100+ CV), and which usually have a high probability of being forged. I believe I have enough knowledge now in what I collect to be able to pick out genuine stamps. I'm also thinking, or at least hoping, that because of all the communications I've had with fellow Spanish collectors, that I am viewed as being somewhat knowledgable, at least in the small areas that I specialize in.

Here are a couple recent examples on ebay (only 2 listed):

The 19c of 1862 (Scott #58, CV $165 used, $125 unused (1999))

This used copy sold for $20, but it is a faulty stamp with 3 margins and a big thin. Still, it went for 12% of Scott CV (1999), and appears to be genuine.
This unused copy is currently being offered and has a bid of $73.31, which is 58% of Scotts (1999), so far. It looks like a nice copy with big margins, but looks to me like it's possibly a forgery.

I guess what I am saying is that 60% of CV for similar stamps, from dealers who are not even specialists in the area, is not out of the ordinary, and that I am pretty confident that I can do just as good, if not better, with similar material.

Now, would 60% of CV be considered a decent profit margin on an item that is bought for 33%? This is a different situation than most dealers because I do not have to buy large collections to get the better items. I also don't have to spend alot of time identifying thnigs since I am already familiar with the area, so the cost of my time is very little, just scanning and doing all the normal ebay stuff.

I know alot of people say it's hard to make money on stamps, but wouldn't it make it alot easier if you could pick and choose your inventory, focusing only on better items and turn them around quickly for a modest profit?


 

September 30, 2003 Bill Weiss

VARIOUS
Good evening everyone. Today was our auction viewing and so I am way behind with everything.

Mike W; That preprinting paperfold is worth about $100. and I would gladly pay you $75. if interested. I run them in my auctions all the time. Come up with another $900+ in material and I would take it on consignment for my next public auction.

PROMO; Your 5c has been determined to NOT be a bluish paper. The sum total of the various opinions is that while the paper is somewhat darker than ordinary, it isn't gray enough to be considered bluish. It will come back to you in tomorrow's mail. IMO you should still consider having it experertized simply because if found to be genuine it's worth $25,000., and if not, you will pay minimum fees (about $30.) to have it done. Let me know if you want to and I'll send you a couple applications for you to pick from.

ALISON; Your problem with Paypal is one of the exact reasons we do not accept it as payment on eBay. In my view, any system which allows the buyer to simply TAKE their money back from the seller is ill-advised. I do understand that you can increase your realizations (or so I'm told) by taking it, but I would prefer not to put the buyer in the drivers seat by allowing them control over the money. Charge cards are at least fairer in that the buyer would have to appeal their problem/complaint to the CCCo and then adibe by the ruling.

There was one other thing I wanted to address - Oh yes, to RICHARD W., please don't apologize, it was a minor misunderstanding or misreading of a name. No harm done. I'll be back in about an hour - AFTER NYPD Blue!

September 30, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 30, 2003 18:44 Dave F. (moderator)

Jim W-S: Got your email and have replied. Thanks for the ideas.

Jim G:No, this mailing actually came through the US mail (and neatly keeps the subject philatelically oriented!), so no email harvesting seems to be involved. I am reluctant to name the registrar here, but they do seem to have an 800 number (probably for sales, though and not for customer service), so I will likely pursue that route tomorrow. (I would send you an email with the registrar's name, but Eudora is down, so I don't have your email handy. I hope to have that repaired later on this evening.)

what the ...: Please register with me. As much as I appreciate the humor of your comment, I am reluctant to keep anonymous posts on here, and it seems like you just want to play a game with me about this. (And I edited your handle slightly.)

September 30, 2003 what the ...?

Alison Ruttenberg
from now on I think you should mark ALL of your hinged stamps with a handstamp HINGE on the front. Sellers like you are out to ruin the hobby.

September 30, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dave F
I wrote a posting here but thought it more appropriate to send via email.

September 30, 2003 Bill Dempwolf <bdempwolf at austin.rr.com>

Bill

September 30, 2003 17:42 Dave F. (moderator)

off-topic: internet problem
This just about knocked me off my chair.

I happened to glance at a piece of junk mail that came in the mail today. It was from an internet domain name registrar congratulating on my great idea for a website. The purpose of the mailing was to offer registration for additional domain names.

The domain name that I had supposedly already registered with them was sexually explicit (and, of course, printed all over the mailer). I went and looked at the "whois" for this registrar, and, yes indeed, I am listed as the domain owner, and much of the contact information (address & phone) is correct.

To add additional information, let me say that this is not the registrar with whom I do have my business domain name registered, and the address associated with my business domain is my mailing address, not a street address.

For those of you who are particularly net-savvy: do I do anything? Is it just a marketing ploy? (The date of registration showed as last March.) I have not paid anything to anyone for this.

(I'm actually surprised that no one has this domain name yet, and it may actually have some commercial value over time.)

I am stumped. Any thoughts?

September 30, 2003 Michael Walter

499 Error
The link to this is in my post from earlier a little further down the page. I would definately appreciate anyones feedback on this. Thanks.

September 30, 2003 Michael Walter

499 Error
499 Error
I just purchased a nice collection yesterday and happened upon this. text It is a Scott #499 with a dramatic paper fold prior to printing. I am positive it is authentic. Can anybody let me know how to place a value on this item as it is not listed in Scott. The item is previously hinged.
 

September 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dang, I hate it when someone beats me to a book I'm after that has a BIN.

Bill D
If you saw Gibbons SA on ebay, I recommend letting it fly.
Its the 1980 edition.
Lots of updates for 1989 edition.
It might even be worthwhile waiting for next edition.

Steve
You should know by now eBay has no wisdom when it comes to the stamp categories.
If eBay.com listed all their stamps in the categories used by the regional eBays, life would be so much easier.

September 30, 2003 Philip Quirk <philipdotquirk at btopenworld dot com>

Hi Jim,

There are various shades of those Ghana stamps; possibly I didn't choose the best "normal" for comparison. The set was current for a few years, so would have gone through several printings, maybe from multiple plates. The orange tassels are even more prominent in some of my other copies. The "missing colour" came from a mixed lot bought in the hope of finding a few village postmarks.

Phil

September 30, 2003 Steve Taylor (aka philcomp) http://www.timeblaster.com/tbeindex.shtml
 

eBay Categories
Bill: we tried when we submitted the eBay chat board category recommendations to have Germany split up more in line with what you see on the eBay Germany site. Unfortunately, eBay, in their wisdom (sic!) decided not to accept our recommendation.

September 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Bjorn
Thanks for the info.
I just had a quick look, most of mine have Oslo cancels.
My better cancels are for Sweden.

Hi Phil,
Looks like the flower name is a lot sharper on the left stamp as well.

Richard W

What is the status of the dune states - Ajman, Fujeira etc,
I was reading through the PWO site today and its not immediately obvious, though some are definitely listed as illegals.

September 30, 2003 prometheus

Borjn
Thanks for pointing out those Norse Guys.

Jim -WS Guess we both need a book.

September 30, 2003 Philip Quirk <philipdotquirk at btopenworld dot com>

Colour Chemistry
Hi Jim - Yes, I do lurk here fairly often! However, I'm now a trainee maths/science teacher and am no longer doing biochemistry research.



In any case, I'm not sure I can add much to the ink saga. One technical problem would be getting the spectrophotometer beam (for example) focused onto the required small area of the stamp and then getting enough reflection to the detector. We once tried to do something similar with tiny crystals of an enzyme: to try and show whhether a substance bound to the enzyme was oxidised or reduced. Subtracting background abosrption was very dificult.



Here are two copies of a common Ghana definitive, but compare the flower "tassels". The right hand stamp appears to be missing the orange colour, with the background to the tassels being printed in the darker of the two yellow shades. The orange is also missing from the leaf vein and parts of the stem. As far as I know, this has not been previously reported - opinions?


Phil

September 30, 2003 10:25 Bjorn Munch

Luxury cancels
Yes, it is indeed the quality of the cancels. In addition, the Nordkapp semipostal was cancelled at Nordkapp (North Cape) which I personally don't like but others may consider it a plus. Also, small places like NISSEDAL and NORDAGUTU in this case are generally much more desirable. In the lot I bought, the clue is the 80 ore definitive with HASLE I SOLØR, in a quality which is apparently extremely rare on this stamp. Other lots by the same seller: 2953427346, 2953427550 and 2953427624.

 

September 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Christo

I've probably got a bunch of SON cancels, just don't have a Norwegian catalog (excepting what's in Scott).

Alison
Yep, there are a number of problem buyers out there.
Unless it's a mint stamp and you have duplicates there's not much more you can do than refund them their money if they claim it got lost in the mail.

September 30, 2003 11.10 mario <gpgiud@tin.it>

italy forgery stamp
hi from here in italy.
since twenty years i take interest in olds italian states forgery stamps.
if you have a question ..............

 

September 30, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Difficult Buyers, PayPal chargebacks, etc.
I just received a very obnoxious email from the High Bidder on this Auction. He is angry that he did not receive the entire set mint never hinged. I do not see how, if he looked at the scan and read the description, he could have thought he getting the entire $600 set, much less mint never hinged, for his high bid. He paid about 50% of CV, which is high but not outrageous. He emailed me back and said he just "assumed" because the bids were so high that this was the complete set. I never put the word "set" in the auction title unless it is the complete set, and this auction was not described as a set. This is not the first time, recently, that someone has taken their frustration out with me because they made an unwarranted assumption that turned out to be wrong. (Another time, a person placed a high bid for a stamp on cover that I described as a #24. He looked at the scan and decided that the stamp was not a type V but something much more expensive. He bid over $300, got his cover, found out he was wrong, then wanted to return it because of a miniscule fault on the stamp. Much has been written lately about difficult/ fraudulent sellers, but there is something to be said about difficult or scam buyers:

The number one scam buyers perpetuate is to not buy certification or insurance and then claim that they did not receive the item and do a paypal chargeback. Without proof of shipment (priority mail with delivery confirmation or certification, which costs a minimum of $2.67 which most stamp buyers refuse to pay), the seller is left high and dry.

September 30, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Norway Cancels
Jim W-S , Bjorn can probably confirm, but to me it looks like it is the quality of the cancellations. Nearly all are perfectly centered (SON) on the stamps, as well as the clarity of the cancels. Nice!

September 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Crikey Bjorn,
when I start looking through my Norwegian duplicates tonight are there any towns that are especially worth looking for?

September 30, 2003 Brian R

Definately, a stellar display piece, for a future CSA exhibit panel.

September 30, 2003 Richard Warren

Brian R - that order signed by Lee is fantastic. Spot on for place and date, the armies of Floyd and Wise being under Lee's command, and facing Rosecrans in W. Va at the time. Someone will need a deep pocket, though ...

September 30, 2003 13:18 Bjorn Munch

Multiples of CV for cancels
Here's another example of intense bidding for four stamps with a total CV of just under $5, ending at $163.50. Yikes! But I'm also guilty of one...

 

September 30, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Approval Books and selling on ebay
Richard I get circuit books, and have tried it a couple of times. Sometimes I got burn't, other times it worked out well. I think it will be essential thatyou will have to know your material better than the seller. If you are allready paying 30% of CV, there is not much profit to be made on ebay on ordinary items- many times material goes for 5 - 15% of CV. On top op of that you then have to still pay ebay listing and end of auctions fees.

September 30, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Beautiful Tahiti Cancel
Looks like the board is a bit quiet today - everybody out on R&R?

There was a discussion recently re gem stamps, and how to value stamps. I have come across this Tahiti Stamp with an absolute gorgeous cancel. Just love it. Now this is my problem.
The seller states that the cancel is at least a year and a half younger on a 1c French Colonies eagle stamp, than what the stamps were actually issued in Tahiti. His explanation is that perhaps this stamp was bought at another French Colony (e.g. Indochina) and brought across to Tahiti by a traveler.
The cancel is beautifully centered over the stamp - is this maybe a CTO cancel. The question I ask myself is if this stamp was not available in Tahiti, how did the postal authority then get their revenue out of this stamp - they didn't sell it, would it have been legal to use this at that time? Or is it as the seller state, a very rare item?

Regards, Christo

September 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Richard
At least you will be in a better position than if you were to buy them off eBay.
If you think you can write good descriptions (I know you can) and have a large enough audience, I'd say go for it.

Never tried doing it myself as I don't get approvals.
It would be too tempting.

September 30, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

re-selling approvals
Ok, here's the deal. I've been getting selections on approval, based on my collecting interests, from a particular dealer in NY on a semi-regular basis. Until now, I've only been looking for things to add to my own collection. But now I'm thinking about buying items from these selections with the intention of re-selling them on ebay. He charges 1/3 of Scott CV for anything I pick out. They are usually album pages from collections, and usally picked over. But, every once in a while there are some interesting, and better, items for the Spanish collector.
I've never thought about "dealing" in the stamps I also like to collect, but this seems like a pretty good opportunity to make som extra $$ on items I don't have to go searching for. They just come to me! And I don't have to deal with lesser items, as I can just return them to the approval guy. This is the advantage of selling on a WW level. You can pick items up locally, which are not very popular here, and sell them to the collectors overseas where they are more popular.

I'm pretty sure I could at least double my money on items I pick out.

Anybody else try buying items from an approval service and selling them to the specialists?

September 30, 2003 Michael Walter

499 Error
I just purchased a nice collection yesterday and happened upon this. text It is a Scott #499 with a dramatic paper fold prior to printing. I am possitive it is authentic. Can anybody let me know how to place a value on this item as it is not listed in Scott. The item is previously hinged.
 

September 30, 2003 Brian R

wow! a genuine article
Here is the ebay auction of the day. This time, chosen for its authenticity. That's not his handwriting (an aide probablely) but it is his signature.

September 30, 2003 1984 Chris

Interesting Tidbit from eBay
Over on the town square there is a thread started by Maeve, the
resident Pink. The thread is called "What Does it mean to be a Community?". In post 101, Maeve mentions that zero feedback id's
will sooner or later not be allowed to post.

Now the reason this is interesting is that the eBay forums have gone
through some strange evolutions. At first they saw it as a way for
sellers to subtly advertise their auctions (why else have a separate
"view sellers auctions" button?) but as the pathelogical parts of
on-line life started to manifest, auction sabotage and feedback
bombing hit the point where most posters went for separate posting ids. Now the abuse of posting ids has reached the point where eBay
is looking at curtailing their ability to post. So the next step
will be to create an id, buy to get the minimum number of feedback
to post, and then use it as a posting id.

I wonder if eBay is thinking about ditching the boards and forums
altogther? Even the fairly non-controversial boards have been
feeling a lot of heat recently.


Chris - to quote The Clash "heading for a clampdown!"

September 30, 2003 Prometheus <Prometheus@1Internetdrive.com>

Sub Dividing
Is it to0 Weenie like to seperate ,into their own class,Postacrds with Booklet pane stamps on them???

September 30, 2003 046:30 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is an airmail cover from Dominican Republic to United States in 1929.

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dana
I cannot disagree with you.
I'm not a chemist.
And frankly, I don't believe commercial companies ads, unless they have been backed by an article in an established journal.
Dr. Aginsky may well be able to prove inks date at some point within the last year, perhaps to the precision of months.

Forensic agencies have been rolled over the coals by judges within the last year to prove the effectiveness of their techniques.

My point in earlier post was that you cannot avoid but affect a stamp with whatever means of studying it you are using.
Even just looking at it.

Some (immediately) non-destructive techniques such as looking at the impact of printer on the back of Nebraska overprints may be viable.
I look forward to comments by organic chemist Phil Quirk, if he is reading.
Exposure to ordinary light will affect it.
 

September 29, 2003 20:10 Dana Krueger <dkrueger at kfl.com>

Regards, Dana

September 29, 2003 Bill Weiss

DAVE; Great! I just assumed that since we had only heard from you for short spots over the last few weeks that you were traveling. Like Anne, just let me know. That timing should work out. Our auction is this Saturday, and our billing/shipping is done in two days (fastest in the world for a totally manual 2-person operation!), and after that I should be pretty free for a few weeks until I need to start typing the NEXT one.

September 29, 2003 anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of painless dentistry, fakes that are marked, and the ability to recognize the ones that aren't.

September 29, 2003 19:14 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

eBay Categories
D2 Miracle of all Miracles. I sent an email to eBay in June and got a reply today:

Subject: RE: Stamps Categories
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:28:15 -0700
Thread-Topic: Stamps Categories
From: "Pub-Collectibles"

Thanks very much for your input. We appreciate the time you’ve taken to respond to us.

Regards,

eBay Collectibles Team

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Claghorn
Posted At: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:39 PM
Posted To: Collectibles
Conversation: Stamps Categories
Subject: Stamps Categories


I was searching eBay Germany and say many interesting and useful categories. They also have many more layers of categories. Why can't the US stamp categories be as useful as eBay Germany?

Here are a few examples
http://listings.ebay.de/aw/plistings/list/category7826/index.html?from=R4
Notice the subcategories
http://listings.ebay.de/pool2/plistings/list/all/category40358/index.html?from=R4
and more sub categories.
http://listings.ebay.de/pool2/plistings/list/all/category35263/index.html?from=R4
Why can't the US categories match the other eBay sites and have such deep usefulness?

I see that eBay Germany is finally taking off.

The richness and depth of categories helps.

What is more important in an international community is that searches find all the items. This is not possible if the categories are very different between the sites. eBay must merge the categories so searches produce worldwide results from worldwide sellers.

eBay US should talk to the people who organized the eBay Germany stamp categories and apply that inspiration to the US site.

Bill Claghorn

September 29, 2003 18:52 Dave F. (moderator)

Bill W: Hi, Bill! I still haven't started that trip yet. I'm still taking care of some preliminary work here first, and it's not quite wrapped up yet. (My computer failure from a couple of weeks ago put me seriously behind.) So, I'll still contact you once I have a schedule figured out. (Maybe 10 days - 2 weeks from now.)

Also, Anne!: I expect I will be in your neck of the woods also. I've been meaning to drop you a note to let you know, but, again, I'm still not sure of the actual travel time yet.

I need to get back there before the weather starts becoming too much of an obstacle.

September 29, 2003 Bill Weiss

Not A Forgery
DUNCAN; Well put to Nick and hope he agrees. Don't say this to be argumentative, but a regummed stamp is not a forgery, just an alteration, enhancement, fake gum, but not a forgery.

DAVE F; Welcome back. Guess you never did get up my way?

September 29, 2003 18:24 Dave F. (moderator)

Hi, Mario!:

Welcome to this board. I'm sorry your initial post got lost in all the confusion and that we're just welcoming you now.

We have at least one other regular poster from Italy. We also represent a wide variety of collecting interests.

What do you collect?

By the way, sometimes there are several different conversations taking place at the same time. That's perfectly normal, so feel free to jump in!

September 29, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Lotus194

Whew! Lots of comments here today, took a while to get caught up.

Lotus, are you waiting for a response from me regarding what would happen if you started stamping the backs of your items?

My position has been all along that you should do two things. One, you should indelibly stamp each item that has a forged overprint on the back so no one buys one thinking it is real. That a no brainer.

The second thing is, you should list those items as MODERN forgeries, especially in view of the fact that you have admittedly published misleading ads on these same items in the past.

Whether you do that as a result of actions by this board or whether eBay forces you to do it is of no concern to me.

There is no good reason why you should let a vendetta concerning this board interfere with telling your customers the truth. And looking back, you finally acknowledge that your former ads were misleading, which is the reason we bucked heads in the beginning. You'd think we, the ones who spoke up, were somehow the ones in the wrong. Lighten up, why burden yourself with a grudge, and do the right thing.

Before you reply, I'd suggest you go back and read some of your very earliest posts again in light of what is now known, and you should easily be able to see our point of view. C'mon, man, you know you've been a bad boy!

Oh... I was gonna change the subject and talk about forgeries discovered after purchase (good topic!!) but I should give you a direct answer Lotus. I don't like the sale of modern forgeries at all, but sure, I'm easy. As long as you don't get cute... say by putting them on covers to hide the back... no problem. You won't hear a peep from me.

Now, about forgeries purchased. Never bought one yet that I know about, except for the cheap album weeds in common assortments. Closest thing to it so far, and on second thought I guess it qualifies, is an early US Air Mail that was regummed. I did get it cheap though thinking that it had been damaged by a Crystal mount, the gum was way too glossy and smooth. But of course the best forgeries of all go undetected by everyone!

Duncan Doenitz

PS: I know sometimes its hard to judge a persons attitude in the written word. Lotus, I hope I don't come across as harsh or angry. Just stating the facts and hoping you'll understand that there are two sides to this issue.

September 29, 2003 Brian R

Clark & Ken S
Just a moment here, to thank you both, for looking at that Shreves lot. I'm pleased to see it looks "funkey" to you guys too (therefore I'm not nuts). Certainly, i'm not ready to throw money, at those kinds of items yet. I appreciate the input, and that of all the others, that expounded on it. This is how we learn.

September 29, 2003 Brian R

Jim G It seems perfectly logical to me. Afterall, ebay programmers spent months, perfecting just such a button. Unfortunately, they turned it over to others. So here we are.

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Jim G
No problem.
I guess I don't like much being called a weenie. :-Þ
Just that I wasn't sure it was you, in spite of email addresses.
As you saw, and thankfully Dave has eliminated, it is not hard to be a persona incognita on the internet.
And it's "humour".:-Þ

September 29, 2003 Brian R

rats
Jim W/S--
So my idea of using spectoscopy to create a trace profile for genuine ink is all wet.
Dang!, I thought I was on to something.
Could be why I'm in sales as opposed to a lab frock.
Back to the 'ol drawing board.
Prometheus, need any help on the time travel?
My schedule just opened up.

September 29, 2003 5:17 PM Dave Mowat <mowadave@aol.com>

Thanks, Richard, for the return on the Hong Kong Swatow S2 Card - I'm impressed! From the tone of the frantic emails I've been receiving from Hong Kong, I'm gathering it's something special. Will be a fun week to watch!

September 29, 2003 17:12 Dave F. (moderator)

Jim & Jim: Just got back. I did just decide to sweep those last few into the "archive bin". Hope that was ok. (I can restore them if need be.) Apologies if I stepped on some toes at the same time.

September 29, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 29, 2003 Richard Frajola

HK used in Swatow
David That card should bring at least $2500 USD and maybe as much as $4,000 depending on who sees it. That's what it is worth.

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Brian
I guess since I teach a science I can be regarded as a scientist (maybe not an official one, though I do have certs :-Þ).
As Richard states, inks change on a daily basis.
Though I doubt forgers with rubber stamps would be able to closely match many of the inks used by postal services.
Roland Hill did not got through a long period of experimentation with inks for nothing.
He wanted to make sure forgers and simply "common people" with erasers did not defraud the postal service of payment.

Forgery, as practiced by Sperati, was an art form.
Which is why his forgeries command high prices.
Unlike those of some others such as Fournier.

Light will interact with and change ink with time.
Shining a UV lamp on a stamp or cancel will alter its characteristics.
Causing the little electrons to jump up or down the electron ladders until they run out of energy.
However, unless you put stamp in a cyclotron or dunk it in water, it shouldn't do much to alter its chemistry.

September 29, 2003 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

same old story
Why are you continuing to pester me. It will do no good by continually emailing me. I have already said I will continue selling what I want and how I want so give it a rest. For your information, I have now put you three and you know who you are , on my blocked bidders list. Go play with your toys somewhere else.

September 29, 2003 3:46 PM Dave Mowat <mowadave@aol.com>

Hong Kong Postal History
Hello! Are there any postal history people out there who might explain the action on this item I recently listed on eBay: 2954487280 Hong Kong 1883 Postal Card w/ Swatow postmark? I knew it was a nice item and would have appeal, but am surprised (and of course, pleased) at the attention it's getting. It's been listed for less than 24 hours. I've had numerous emails asking me to close the auction and sell direct (which I won't do). Thanks,Dave. (squidwillow)

September 29, 2003 Bill Weiss

Coils
JIM G; I would say that perfectly straight rows of perfs in 1908 coils would make me very nervous, particularly if the holes are very round as well. That combo of traits would convince me it's a fake. Interestingly, the coils of the International Vending Machine Company from this period are virtually ALWAYS crooked, not necessarily within the row, but the entire row would be somewhat diagonal. Sometimes past expert committees would certify Internationals as Government coils not understanding this trait in the private coils. Nowadays, they all know better. Further, the slightly different 12.5 gauge size versus 12 gauge is a bigger clue, although if memory serves me, it's really more like 12.2 or .3 gauge.

September 29, 2003 David Shumaker

My understanding is that a perforator has both male and female wheels (someone please correct me if I am wrong). So if the male punch gets bent, or was incorrectly tooled from the beginning, it will not line up with the female wheel and the result will be a crooked and mis-shaped hole. A crooked row of clean holes is not likely genuine, IMHO.

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

doubtful
Here is stamp which SG regards as being "doubtful".
Here is stamp which it supposed to be.
I may try plating the "doubtful" since I have a complete sheet.

David B
is definitely now on vacation for two weeks unless "you know who" was very slow at mailing out auctions.

September 29, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 29, 2003 David Shumaker

I have come across many such fakes in the 1908 experemental series that have several clean certificates, most likely due to provenance. When you buy stamps of that series even with cert's, you need to be your own expert.

September 29, 2003 Bill Weiss

Various
RICHARD W; Sorry, I might have given you my eBay address as against my actual email address, which is wrw43@rcn.com. Please try again and I'll watch for it tonight.
KEN SRAIL; While I agree that becoming your own expert is extremely helpful and can help you sort out obvious problems before you buy, in my view, when it comes time to resell, or for your heirs to sell, only expertization by recognized committees will do. In some cases, such as with specialized postal history, the signature of the premier expert in the field on the item or some statement of genuiness will do also, but self-expertization has its limits.
BTW, we discussed last auction you sending in your "start-price" bids early to give you an edge, but you didn't take my advice and I just got about 150 of them today. That doesn't mean they will be the same lots as you might care about, but each day that passes lowers your chances that you will be successful at the start bid.

Regarding what Nick does to his fakes, I think everyone on this board would be happy to drop the subject (Nick and his fakes) if he would just agree to backstamp every one he offers from here on out as being FAKE. I would see no good reason for anyone here to continue to prod him in any way. I get the feeling though that he particularly wants to hear this from DAVID B. most of all.

September 29, 2003 22:40 BST Dave Arthur <dave@davesgame.com>

Taxes
Hi, I know I am one night too late for this thread but I was out playing in a Pool League QF and was too excited in getting through to jump on the net.

I just wanted to add my 1/2p worth to you GB taxpayers ..... you are aware that (as long as you are PAYE) you do not need to complete your tax form until January as long as you do it on line?
I do mine in December every year and for some reason I have for the last two years always got a nice rebate in January.

The reason I find this weird is my Return is about as ordinary as it can get, no specials at all (especially since the divorce!!), and the second weird thing is I work for the company that created the online tax system in the UK and yet they obviously can't get my deductions correct.

However, I applaud any system that gets me a rebate every year and for me at least the system works well, I just copy everything (adjusted figures in some areas of course) from last years saved file - takes me about 30 minutes to complete.

September 29, 2003 11.38 pm mario giudici <gpgiud@tin.it>

mario
i want to register (italy)

September 29, 2003 14.26 Knud-Erik Andersen

Re: Fake overprints
As it late here and I'm tired - mistakes comes - The stamp of mine was not from Konstantinbad but Niklasdorf! Sorry.

K.E. (off to bed - will catch up tomorrow.)

September 29, 2003 1421 Clark (reperf)

crazy perfs
Brian R

Could this have been a "dealer" certificate done hurriedly for an auction in 1995? There has been some criticism of the PF for giving preferential treatment to dealers, especially auction houses.

To me the perforations look a bit too uneven to be credible, but without a direct look it I am unwilling to say that the perforations are definitely faked, but I would probably look elsewhere if in the market to buy a #349 line pair. In addition to the wandering perforations along the centerline, some of the top and bottom perforations also appear to be unevenly spaced. I have two similar appearing pairs somewhere around, but the perforations wander a bit more than these (the third pair was donated to the APS for their reference collection). When they turn up, I will post a scan for comparison.

I also notice that the perforations of this 322 pair and this 356 pair also seem to wander a bit. Both have PF certificates from the late 1980s.
 

September 29, 2003 14.17 Knud-Erik Andersen

Re: Fake overprints
Iomoon - Here is the real thing! I resently won this stamp on a piece from Konstantinbad (with a new cert.) It has an issue of only 560 pc. :O)

K.E.

September 29, 2003 Brian R

We need an official scientist here....quick!

September 29, 2003 Richard Frajola

bad science for cancels
Brian Regarding cancels: As long as you have examples that have been subjected to the full range of environmental stresses and if the ink on a stamp pad remained constant over a long period of time (which is basically impossible as oil and ink were added to stamp pads separately as needed in US & CSA). Also, impressions applied in the winter differ, etc.

September 29, 2003 14.04 Knud-Erik Andersen

Re: Fake cancels
Iomoon - yes and it's shows how amateurish work it is. Most of the cancels on the stamps are from the period before the German invation - many canceled in areas outside Sudetenland (the remains of Czechoslovakia). The worst is this - it was canceled in 1919!!! - Where can I report him??

K.E.

September 29, 2003 Brian R

Providing we can all come to a consensus, that the standard (first copy)used, is genuine.

September 29, 2003 Richard W

Bill Weiss!
Bill - tried to email you with the identity of that dealer at the address you gave, but it bounced back. Typo in address? Mailbox full? let me know and I'll try again. Cheers, Richard W.

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

K-E

Looks like the third stamp in the third row of the last "INTERESTING" auction got moved before the ink dried!!

September 29, 2003 13.31 Knud-Erik Andersen

Re: Fake overprints
The only reaso these overprinted stamps are INTERESTING is - they are fake!!

K.E.

September 29, 2003 Fred Williams

Overprint Information
I’ve read post after post dealing with forged stamps, forged overprints, faked cancels and fake covers. Most of these posts deal with GB, swastika overprints, and worldwide stamps/overprints in general. Very little dealing with United States overprints.

Question:

Can someone out there give me any real factual information, or point me in the right direction, concerning the U.S. Kans/Nebr overprints and the differences between real and fake?

I’ve read several articles and booklets but they all seem to say something different.

I have 2 sets (1 each used and unused) that were bought early in my collecting career and I’d really like to determine if their real or not.
 

September 29, 2003 13.07 Knud-Erik Andersen

September 29, 2003 13:05 Ken S.

Expertization is not always a science. Experts do not always agree on an opinion. The same expert will not issue the same opinion on two different days. Your best bet is to become your own expert.

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

No idea Dave P, though I doubt that they would let them try it on the Declaration of Independence.
Arginsky appears to be a chemist so I'm sure he'd need some raw material as fodder.

September 29, 2003 Dave P

Jim W-S Do those print dating methods require a sample extracted. A bit galling if you find that something was genuine only now it has a b****y great hole in it :)

September 29, 2003 Richard Frajola

Jim W-S The more tools the better ... the devil will always be in the interpretation. Multiple wavelengths is a very good starting place. Looking at stamps under multiple wavelengths is far better than using any single wavelength. However, it means you have to know what to expect to see under each of those lights FIRST.

September 29, 2003 Dave P

RichardYou are absolutely right about forgeries being everywhere, I doubt there has been a year when I haven't discovered a "nasty" hidden away. I even got caught with a forgery with a forged certificate some years ago.

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Richard
This is obviously company hype, but it may work, I don't know.
Plus copy of new book:
Advances in the Forensic Analysis and Dating of Writing Ink

Advances in the Forensic Analysis and Dating of Writing Ink [Click for larger image]
Author: Richard L. Brunelle, Kenneth R. Crawford
Format: Hardcover
Published: January 2003
Edition: Illustrated
ISBN: 0398073465
List Price: $59.95

September 29, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 29, 2003 Richard Frajola

fake cancels
PS - for those not aware, Herst's partner in publishing the "Herst-Zaretsky" book on US fancy cancels (Zaretsky) was possibly the leading faker of cancels during the 1940-1960 period. Many of the ones in the book only exist fake.

September 29, 2003 anne

BTW, this is so much more interesting than prepping for my 4:30 class...

September 29, 2003 Dave P

Overprints and Cancellations
I think it depends upon how good the forger was. As I have said before, I was never good enough to be able to say that a GB overprint item was "good", but I could tell that a heck of a lot were bad. On quite a lot it is pretty apparent when the overprint is over the postmark, especially as relatively few (GB) postmarks are jet black. Perhaps the easiest sometimes are those where the forger has "completed" the postmark back over the overprint. I would say that with a good strong light, and a x 5 glass, aided sometimes by a UV lamp I would pick up at least 75% of cases where the o/print is over the postmark. The other 25% is of course the problem, when you have eliminated the wrong shapes, sizes and dates then unless you are a real expert sending it of to a committee is the only sure way. I used a couple of cheap IR official covers to see what a postmark over the o/p should look like, and the low values are good reference for getting the "feel" of a genuine O/p. With all that the only genuine high cat officials I ever had were those bought with a certificate, and I saw literally hundreds of fakes. Of course where the postmark is on top you stll have the problem of fake postmarks......

September 29, 2003 Richard Frajola

Jim W-S As I have commented elsewhere, there is "no magic pixie dust" to tell fakes and forgeries .... Last dated ink report I got from FARFA was off my 200 years! They said 1760's and it was 1960's.

September 29, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 29, 2003 Richard Frajola

Forgeries
I imagine most collectors, even those on this board, have stamps/covers that are forged or faked and just don't know it. Even the best collectors do (including virtually every single big name collector I have ever met). It goes with the territory of building a representative collection of anything (art, antiques, etc).

Chip G I do not believe that it is possible to tell by sight (or scan) if a cancel is over or under an overprint with any degree of certainty. It is NOT the way to determine if n overprint is genuine or faked.

Lotus I honestly don't care if you mark your fakes or not. I am sure I am in the minority here but it serves no real purpose. Most handstamps can be easily erased and virtually any other mark can be sanded off. No collector buying better overprints should depend on what somebody has marked on the back.

I recently saw a US #39 that Pat Herst had marked on back in pen "fake cancel" forever killing it. In my opinion there was a good shot of the cancel being genuine - Pat Herst probably was unaware of the correct cancels because so much of what he saw in cancelled #39's had fake cancels and he just didn't see enough covers of the period!

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Chip
You need to get yourself one of these.
Supposedly there is also a technique available to date ink.

September 29, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 29, 2003 Brian R

timing is everything
OK!....question answered, even before my post appeared through the ether.....

September 29, 2003 Brian R

Serious question--Do MNH collectors judge the existance of a blind perf as a significant negative? As a used spacefiller, I ignore them, they are so common on early stuff anyway. Even the last genuine, inverted jenny I saw, had one.

September 29, 2003 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Ignore
Please ignore the last 3 posts being made in my name, I,m sure the Moderator will delete them in time.

Yet to hear from the hardcore members of this board on my proposal!

September 29, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 29, 2003 anne

I'll try to post a little more about the specifics of my inadvertant forgery collections, but off the top of my head I'd estimate that several hundred of my stamp-buying dollars have gone toward them. I'm not including in this figure the cost of items I bought as forgeries for the purpose of building a reference collection. Some of them are just plain forgeries of the entire stamp. Some, however, are overprint forgeries. The three bar Farouk overprints of Egyypt are a case in point. Not only are many of the standard three bar o/ps not entirely kosher, but the vast majority of the o/p errors (double and even triple o/ps) are fakes. I can't tell the difference--I don't have the expertise or the equipment. The only one of the many I have--most of which I bought jumping up and down for joy at finding such neat things--that I know is legit came with a Charlie Hass certificate.

September 29, 2003 Chip G

Overprints and Cancellations
It was always my understanding that there is really no conclusive way to tell whether a black overprint is on top of or below a black cancellation. Unless something has changed with detection techniques in the past few years, I would not be so quick to dismiss or validate anything based upon this criteria alone. In this case, looks can be deceiving.

Also, Jim G - now you too????? It is properly described and his business.
C.

September 29, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Italy States
Paolo: It is on the way last week!! Hopefully, it will get to you soon.

September 29, 2003 11.30 am Colin Judd UK http://mysite.freeserve.com/Scans/
 

Colin

September 29, 2003 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

gary. Why should you be.

September 29, 2003 Nick I (lotus194) < >

I did not write that last post.

September 29, 2003 gary <bowacka@aol.com>

Ahhh, I see the carrot waver is back into spite mode. Anyone suprised???

September 29, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

New pic service
I notice they've switched over to the new picture service, from IPIX, anyone see any differences? So far, just the little logo in the lower right corner looks different. Everything else looks the same, including the size of the pictures.

September 29, 2003 Nick I (lotus194) <>

end of road
I have had it with you guys. You will not listen to me or my offers. So to hell with you all. I shall carry on selling all the stamps and covers I want and in any way I want to. You had your chance and blew it.

September 29, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 29, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Nick
This is not a put down but a literal interpretation of your question.
If you were to consider stamping the rear of your stamps does not translate to "you will stamp the backs of your stamps".
You can consider it and then not do it.
If you did backstamp the stamps and showed the reverse of the stamp in the auction descriptions, I would be happy.

Re forgeries
I gave up collecting mint Mayotte because nearly everyone I obtained was a Fournier forgery.
I could only find used Mayotte as non-Fourniers and then you have to worry about the cancel.
I didn't have the heart to tell a dealer at the last show I went to on 57th St that all of his Mayotte were Fournier forgeries.

September 29, 2003 Paolo B.

eBay item & else
Hi Alison, I'm impatiently waiting for that snail mail :-)
Hope all is fine!

Hi Knud-Erik, did you receive my postcard? How's your exhibit going?

Paolo

PS: I don't know how that large space came after my post. Must have erroneously copied and pasted an empty space or something.
Sorry Dave F. and thanks in advance for your correction.

Off to cook.
Paolo

September 29, 2003 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Olive branch
Rob V--I had every intention of answering your mail, but I did not realise it had an expiry date. The posts over the last 24 hours were made from a different location other than my home, and not one where my mail is accessible (but don't take my word for it though ask the moderator).

Why the furore this afternoon, I ask a simple question and hoped for a simple answer. If I was to consider stamping the rear of my stamps, will the Rotweilers on this board stop interfering with my sales and leave me alone?

No need for speeches, no need for insults, no need for clever put-downs or the like. Just YES or NO?

September 29, 2003 nomad55

I also have bought a postal history forgery - but no trickery involved. The dealer told me it was faked, I knew it was faked when I saw it. Included in the deal was a letter of "non-authenication" from the acknowledged expert in that area. Great reference item.

September 29, 2003 Paolo B.

RE- Poll
"how many posters and lurkers have bought stamps and only later found them to be forgeries?"



As a poster, I had experiences in both senses of the phrase, which have been accurately described during the years I have been posting. In short:
I either bought stamps as genuine and later found them to be forgeries or fakes (e.g. fake cancel, fake gum or reparations)
and bought stamps as forgeries (e.g. with negative certificates) that later revealed to be genuine.

Paolo
 

September 29, 2003 Rob Faux

fakes/forgeries
Anne I know I have a number of forgeries as yet to be identified, especially in German States. I have to find the time to pick them out.

I have purchased a postal history item that turned out to be faked. Learning experience, that.

R

September 29, 2003 Rob Faux

cousins, etc
Nick Ok, I've had enough. I sent to you an olive branch via email. You DID NOT ANSWER.

Now, you make claims that people here are ignoring you, are being impolite and are all in league against you.

You want people to treat you better and you claim you would try to respond better. Then you make general accusations that, in a forum such as this, cut EVERY READER who visits.

And, JUST LIKE YOU I'd like to think that others think of me as an individual who can think for himself - yet you effectively lump me in a wad with everyone else. Listen to yourself, then extend the same curtousy you claim to want to others.... or just leave.

And, YOU conveniently IGNORE those of us who try to gently and kindly encourage positive discussion. What happened to your response to a question that asked what you collect?

I prefer to give benefit of the doubt. I prefer to allow people of different opinions to freely disagree as well. But, you are in danger of losing any shred of integrity I thought you MIGHT possibly have.

Now, you will likely respond to me because this is not an olive branch. I wish you would have responded positively before.

This STILL does not mean that I like the approach others have taken in this situation. But, at least they have the integrity to respond to questions regarding their choices.

 

September 29, 2003 Brian R

This is the only time I regret, unwittingly NOT, ending up with a forgery.

September 29, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Forgeries
Anne - I have, on at least 3 occassions, bought individual stamps that were supposed to be genuine, which later turned out to be forgeries. All were bought when I first started collecting Spain and did not have much reference material to go by. They sat in my collection until I finally started gathering more books and literature on the subject and started weeding them out. 1 was from a show dealer and 2 from ads in Linn's.
On the flipside, I have also bought a couple forgeries, as forgeries, that later turned out to be genuine, or something other than a forgery (wrongly identified type, or similar). Everything probably has cancelled each other out in the long run.

September 29, 2003 prometheus

Anne
I made an early Mistake of Buying an Early German World wide collection in album.

Found that a lot of the Hard to get stamps were forgeries/faux.

As I Identify a fake/Bogus issue it is removed from book leaving more Sad holes.

But even the forgeries have fans sold some early South Americans for a couple of bucks to a Forgery collector.
I have since been told Most Early German Albums have a few fakes here and there.

I still buy Forged Postal History - Mostly by error on my part.

 

September 29, 2003 gary <bowacka@aol.com>

Being in the stamp business for over 20 years, I have seen literally 10s of thousands of forgeries through the years. The good, bad, and the ugly. I actually have a couple of plastic tubs full of them, kind of an informal collection (not organized, probably 5000+). Any new one I get, I throw it in the box. I have customers that point them out at shows (from my own stock!) and they go in the box. I do not sell them, it is strictly for reference. The only time I have a problem is when someone points out a forgery, then wants to buy it for a nominal sum. Usually they have a lot more knowledge of a particular area and it always seems to be a multi $100 item!! Carrying a worldwide stock, forgeries are a problem, as NO dealer knows them all!!

September 29, 2003 nomad55

egypt forgery
Hi Anne....Years ago I bought a box of miscellaneous stamps from an estate sale. Included was a Suez local, which I immediately thought "forgery". Later confirmed by John Hotchner.

September 29, 2003 anne

I certainly have, in both my Egypt and Luxembroug collections. I also get APS circuit books for Egypt and Luxembourg and routinely find forgeries that have escaped the eyes of the APS checkers. I've also found a few in my worldwide collection, mostly cheap packet forgeries. There are probably more album weeds lurking in my collection.

September 29, 2003 Bill Dempwolf <bdempwolf at austin.rr.com>

Bill

September 29, 2003 anne

JEAN de Sperati, magic fingers are miswired this morning,.

September 29, 2003 anne

Source:Varro Tyler, Philatelic Forgers: Their Lives and Works.

September 29, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Nick - If your items were indelibly marked in some way, and this fact is made clear in your descriptions, I'm sure no one would have further reason to contact your bidders.

September 29, 2003 prometheus

Thanks Bill W.
Thanks for the heads up Bill No rush ,

Nick - If you marked them what would anyone have to say, other than Great dealer.
I answered for NO one I was I was responding to One of the Points in your latest Post at the time.

I think you need to look at the discussions as a group Chat like a Pub not little conversations with just one person.
That's the Joy of the World Wide Web All can speak, as all can listen.
 

September 29, 2003 anne

Quoted from Varro Tyler, Philatelic Forgers:Their Lives and Works. Fournier's stock, all 800 lbs of it plus equipment, went first to one of his employees and after this individual's death, was bought by the Geneva Philatelic Union. This organization dontated the equipment to the Geneva Museum of History and marked the stamps as fake. They put together and sold 480 rrepresentaive albums of his work and burned the rest of his stock.

September 29, 2003 gary <bowacka@aol.com>

Bill This is Gary from Florida! Glad you got the 153. Posner bought the RW1 on the floor in Columbus I think (I saw him walking around with it) I want to say from Irv Miller, but I could be wrong. I doubt he'll get a nibble on eBay, but it is without a doubt, a "Posner" stamp!

September 29, 2003 16:03 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Why cousins should never marry
You people really do take the biscuit, I ask Mr Benson a question and George K answers, I write back to George K and Prometheus answers for him. I then write back to Prometheus and Brian R has a say. You lot should be politicians or attorneys or something of that ilk, you dodge uncomfortable questions or accusations by acting as each others spin doctors.

You loose more and more credibility as each unanswered question goes by.

Brian R--For the 101st and last time, if I stamp the back of my stamps will ALL of you keep your noses out of my business, and I do need to hear this from all of you Mr Benson, Duncan D, Alison R etc?

I dont really expect an answer!

September 29, 2003 Bill Weiss

GARY; Is that you, from Florida? If so, yes I did get the #153 and thanks! Yes, that RW1 is incredible, isn't it? It will be interesting to see if anyone buys it, although I doubt it will happen on eBay!

PROMO; Your 5c on postcard arrived today. I plan on taking it with me tommorrow to my auction viewing and show it around to several other dealers who are expert and between us, we will come up with an opinion and I'll get it back in the mail to you on Weds or Thurs.

September 29, 2003 nomad55

Books
What Bill W said is true. Authors of philatelic books seldom recoup even their costs. These books are a chance to give something back to the hobby that has provided so much pleasure and relaxation. Well, maybe sometimes its a vanity thing - and if so, its WELL DESERVED if you become the "source" or the "industry wide reference".

Such as Weiss with NYFM or Bomar with expos.

September 29, 2003 gary <bowacka@aol.com>

I saw that RW1 that Posner has in Columbus at the APS show. That is where he bought it. Simply AMAZING (yes that is a shout)! What a stamp!!! You did get the 153 NYFM didn't you?? Time for some work!

September 29, 2003 Bill Weiss

BOOK
MIKE W; Thanks for the question. The New York Foreign Mail book is $75., postpaid. Address is Bill Weiss, POB 5358, Bethlehem/PA, 18015. It also comes with a neat small handy booklet which shows all the cancels too and their rarity, and the booklet can be easily carried to a show, or whatever, for easy reference. My NYFM numbers are now the standard for most describers, except on eBay, where many of those sellers never heard of it. Most auction firms now use my numbers too, except those that are too lazy to look them up! It's a long struggle though, as even now, 13 years after publication, there's a few houses that continue to use the ancient Van Vlissingen-Waud numbers. As an interesting aside, I too wanted to continue using the V-W numbers and permission to do that was denied by the Chicago Collector's Club, who own the copyright to the V-W book. That always amazed me, that a club in theory dedicated to promote philately would stand in the way of progress. So what they accomplished by denying permission to use the old V-W numbers was that my system replaced theirs, and now theirs is obsolete.

September 29, 2003 prometheus

Ebay Radio
Anyone here listen to Ebay Radio ??

September 29, 2003 Brian R

If this doesn't sink in soon, I'd be worried for another reason. By now, those concerned about the welfare of others, are probablely planning a call to the mental health authorities in England.

September 29, 2003 prometheus

Groups might be working,
195 users have signed up for one of the stamp groups.
Not bad for week with little ballyhoo

Real question Millions of users 2500 who board/group why do they even bother to provide these services.

 

September 29, 2003 prometheus

Sorry Nick
I think most of my friends on this board look at it as a Hobby,
Your wonky business affects that hobby and thus we have animosity.

You know you really want to be on the fair side of this issue.
Now ,lately, you have just been looking for a reason Not too.

I am glad to see you visit every day more is better.
Have you and your friends started a Fakers and Utterers Group over at the Bay, you could have your Own little private Group.
There seems to be quite a few who would qualify for cards.

September 29, 2003 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

QUID PRO QUO
Prometheus--Just get your friends on this board to keep their noses out of my business please.

September 29, 2003 06:30 Jim Watson

Lavar,
Nice story about getting your mother-in-law's vote. That's the second most important vote you'll get. What about your spouse?

September 29, 2003 prometheus

Jim Watsom
my Ruler and Calculator make it 3.1893 sq inches Neat

September 29, 2003 prometheus

Jin Watson
Thanks for sharing those scans, (i should be back scanning tomorrow)
I bought this piece thinking it was a cut corner from a postcard and did not realize it was an entire until later,

NICK just backstamp your fakes please.
 

September 29, 2003 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Lies
George K--I have to ask you again to get your facts correct. Firstly I have never accused you personally of interfering with my sales by mailing bidders, I know exactly who the 3 people are who breach this particular ebay rule, 2 have admitted it on this board and the 3rd has not quite plucked up the nerve yet.

To date I have never admitted or denied on this board by whom or how the overprints on some of my stamps are done, only that I personally do not do them, and that I have more than one supplier, none of these statements are lies.

I am not committing fraud, if I were, ebay would kick me off and the UK members of this board would have me reported to the legal authorities.

Unlike Addie who makes a living from his sales, I do not, it is a hobby with me, so whether I sell 1 item per month or 1,000 items per month matters not a jot. I am just stating fact that your (not you personally, but your like) tactics to get me closed down appear to be having a negative effect, and I would bet you a £70,000 6d Purple SG.023 IR Overprint that should you ever change your manner when dealing with people like me, you might enjoy more of that success that so aludes you.

Just saying thats all.

Nick
 

September 29, 2003 George K

I could really care less what criticism I receive about my so-called "methods", which have consisted only of proving to eBay that people like you are committing fraud. Addie kept claiming business has never been better either, and that he had a world-wide repeat customer base of thousands, and now his "business" is up for sale.

September 29, 2003 04:37 AM Jim Lawler <jlawler at comteck dot com>

Jim L.

September 29, 2003 04:23 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a registered wrapper from Turks Islands to Nova Scotia in 1892. Miles of sugary white sand beaches!
 

September 29, 2003 09:46 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Kind Words
George K--Many thanks for your kind words reference myself and the items I sell on ebay. I would appreciate if you would only state FACTS and not what you perceive to be factual, that way you will have the inalienable right to the acclaim this board bestows on you. Stay away from exaggeration also when it comes to numbers etc.

I do not deny my wording on my sales might have been unintentionally deceiving to some customers some time back, and I have now addressed that issue, I think in a very satisfactory way.

Now being as you like facts, let me give you one or two:

1.Despite the damage you have tried to do to my stamp sales, business has never been better, by that I mean you have had little or no impact on my sales or my clientele.

2.Despite mailing my customers, potential bidders and the like, there is a distinct lack of postings on this board from those people willing to condemn me or my material.

3.It is a fact that I have only lost ONE sale since your intervention in my business, why would that be, surely the FACTS are there for all to see, I should be losing sales by the bucketload.

4.Since your intervention with the sales of lotus, there has been a significant increase in the postings on this board with disgruntled readers who dislike your methods, and because of the likes of you I would wager these numbers can only increase in their number.

5.I am not going to go away, not for you or anyone else on this board. I am going to continue to supply an affordable alternative to collectors less fortunate than yourselves, who cannot afford top dollar for rare items. When my customers no longer want my material, I will stop selling, simple as that.

You know what I think I really object to more than anything else, is someone who has never bought one of my items, does not collect the items I sell, sitting thousands of miles away in a country that has different laws and values, telling me what I CAN and CANNOT do, and what I CAN and CANNOT sell.

Now some of you (and you know who you are) only have my future customers and future collectors interests at heart (and this is our common ground). If you really do have any useful suggestions that would be helpful to both myself and potential customers I am more than willing to listen.

Just for the record, I post under my name and my name only, occasionally I use other email addresses, but I never ever post using fake ID's.

Nick

September 29, 2003 Lavar Taylor

Well, today we received a call from my mother-in-law up in San Francisco, who confirmed that she voted for me by absentee ballot. To understand how special this is to me, a bit of history is in order. When my (then future) mother-in-law-- who is Chinese and speaks relatively little English -- was told in 1985 that her daughter was marrying me, a non-Chinese, she (mom-in-law to be) announced that she would boycott the wedding and that anyone who went to the wedding would be her enemy. I have now transitioned to her favorite son-in-law (she has 3). This transition has required years of me repeating 3 phrases in Cantonese to her over and over ("the food is good", "thank you", "you are very beautiful") and years of me losing to her at mah jongg. I count getting my mother-in-law's vote among my major life achievements.

September 28, 2003 Michael Walter

Bill Weiss
Where may I be able to purchase one of your books? Can I buy one directly from you?

September 28, 2003 Bill Weiss

End of Night Posts
RICHARD W; I received no response regarding which dealer you refer to, but if you re-read my post, I was only talking about them being "top rung" in terms of being the top competitors for high quality "gems" in auction. That does not preclude the possibility that one of them could be less than honest, but I still would like to hear what you have to say.

BRIAN R; Thanks for acknowledging the reference to one of my books; "The Foreign Mail Cancellations of New York City". To anyone thinking you can get rich writing books, here's some inside info. This book was written and published by me in 1980. We broke even financially on it about a year ago. Only took 12 years! Needless to say, if I had put the money in a simple interest-bearing savings account, we would have been far better off. You don't make money writing books. You get to record what you've learned for posterity, get a little ego rush, and that's about it! Good-night.

September 28, 2003 08:20 Jim Watson

Tiny Covers
Pro,
I do collect/accumulate small covers. I try to find ones less than 10 square inches. The smallest I ever saw (and foolishly didn't buy) was just the size of a 1922-25 US definitive, about .75" x 1" - address on one side and stamp on the other. Here's three of them.

September 28, 2003 Paolo B.

A comment on "borrowed": I should have better spoken of loanwords (or emprunts , since I just checked the dictionary)... one might argue it is not appropriate a term. In fact, if one borrows something, for example an object, he'd expect to get it back. How can this happen with a word or the way of expressing a concept? Rarely but this can happen with these too...these words can return all the way back in the former linguistic patrimony, eventually through the medium of another language. It can even happen that a certain loanword, has become obsolete in the former idiom by the time it gets back.
Gotta crash, Paolo

September 28, 2003 Roger Heath

A solution
Brian R -
solution - [< L solutio loosen < solvere loosen]
I found a solution and loosened myself up at the same time. Couldn't find a pineapple field (I think they are extinct), so skipped the juice, everything is OK now!

Roger
 

September 28, 2003 Brian R

Roger
Go to the nearest pineapple field
Pick a nice one
Squeeze out the juice
Add 1/3 vodka & drink
Soon everything will seem fine :o)

September 28, 2003 Paolo B.

Roger CYE please.

BTW and between brackets, those "stolen" words can be authoritatively called "Lehnwörter" (borrowed words, if I am not wrong). There are different categories of it, borrowed for different reasons. e.g. from an ad-stratum or a super-stratum, including economical trade, technical specialisation, etc.) and "Lehnwörterkunde" is one among the most interesting subjects of philology.
There are some very interesting examples I could bring. One of these, maybe the oldest I know but not the smallest as for importance, refers to when the Romans, in 261 BC, had to build a fleet to fight the first Punic war. Rome was absolutely not ready for a war at sea. As a matter of fact, at that time, Romans did not have any maritime experience (representative of this was also the fact that they burned the ship that they found in the harbors of the "conquered" towns of Magna Graecia) and showed a kind of fear for the sea.
Therefore all the nautical terms had to be borrowed directly from the Greek language (through a possible, at least weak, Etruscan mediation, I would dare to add).
Another example is the word "bellum" that in Latin was used for "war". Since the adjective "bellus", in the same idiom, meant "beautiful", to avoid this omophony the whole romance domain which had Latin as sub-stratum and Germanic languages as ad-stratum (first) and super-stratum (later) "borrowed" the word werra (Old German) from which derived the French guerre and the Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc. guerra.

I am mostly interested of Romance Philology and "hermeneutics" (interpretation of old languages and dialects, e.g. Etruscan) with just a few thematic digressions, when and where needed, in the more general Indo-European context.
But then again just at hobby level and as an absolute beginner, because I was not made at school for this...I am trying to fill my enormous gaps on these disciplines, little by little and with, with self appeasing self study, though.

Paolo

September 28, 2003 Roger Heath

Chocolate
Dear Brian R -
I have one of those Swiss chocolate sheets and I went ahead and licked the front of the paper, tasted great. My problem is whether or not I'll eventually be able to sell it on Ebay mint never hinged. It didn't taste like it had mint, only chocolate. I didn't try the gum, though it's been suggested some gums are mint flavored. How do I describe this sheet without writing a misleading description? The chocolate specialist will probably return it as previously licked, the mint collectors will not buy without a certificate stating "original mint", and the fakers might rub a Certs on the back and call it "pretested". Help me, what should I do?

Roger in Kona

September 28, 2003 Bill Weiss

RICHARD W; I've been gone all day and still haven't read all of today's posts, but I am curious WHICH dealer you were speaking of from my list? Can you send me a private email (wrw@rcn.com) and let me comment to you privately. I will try to read the rest of today's posts in about an hour.

September 28, 2003 Brian R

Anne
This article is just for you ;o)

September 28, 2003 Brian R

Dave F
Get ready for some more viscious posts in French....

September 28, 2003 Paolo B.

LITTLE COVERS
Pro I think that Jimbo (Jim W.) is interested in those, in particular. I have a few "smaller covers". I have two small covers, both in 'visit card' format. One dates 1879 and it is a little franked envelope from Italy (Palermo) to Russia (St. Petersburg).
Here are
front
and
reverse.
Paul (Sveiki!) had helped with this cover, also regarding the Russian censor marking on the front. The 5c. rate to Russia is rather unusual.

Follows another small cover, less old but a bit smaller than the preceding, from Italy to Germany (censored as well):
front
and
reverse

Paolo

September 28, 2003 Roger Heath

prunbted
What the heck was that? Oh, printed. Go magic fingers!

BTW - Matt-in-Phoenix (ex-Samoa) collects tiny covers.

Roger

September 28, 2003 Roger Heath

Zusammendrucke
I’ve been out and a question I can answer has been bandied about.

Mauro - Zusammendrucke

Zumstein catalogue lists under this group stamps printed together of different denomination, different color, and/or different design (possibly same stamp but in different language).

Kehrdrucke = têche-bêche = same design, one stamp inverted.

My Amateur Collector catalogue which is published in Britain, uses the terms, têche-bêche and se-tenant for the above. It appears the Engish have stolen another two words from France and do we get thanks for spreading French around the world? Noooo!! Of course if the English had prunbted stamps with one upside down it would have been considered an error, rather than artistic license. I knew everyone was waiting for a controversial topic today. LOL

Roger

September 28, 2003 anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of tiny covers (for tiny minds? nahhhhh), philatelic translations, and chocolate, always chocolate. Anne

September 28, 2003 Prometheus <Prometheus@1Internetdrive.com>

Hello all
Brian send me your address (again) and I'll send you an olde scott's specilaized.

I have lots of the stamps to use up.

ALL Discussions
I really enjoy the multi faceted world of Stamps, so please continue

LITTLE COVERS What is the smallest postally used item you have/ or have see??

I bought a tiny little cover and card enclosed smaller than Half a Business card..

SORRY no scans decided to spend my money at the Antique Fair rather than at office depot, scanner next week.

 

September 28, 2003 Paolo B.

Mauro look here for "zusammendruck".
Paolo

September 28, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 28, 2003 Paolo B.

Bri Thanks for the clarification.


Mauro just found this title:
"Special Katalog 1985 Markenheftchen, Zusammen-drucke, Bundesrepublik, A. Holzer, 157 pp. (A catalog of booklets and combinations.)"
on this web-page
Paolo

 

September 28, 2003 Brian R

Humor doesn't translate through babelfish well.

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Mauro
Se-tenant in English is Se-tenant.
meaning joined together.
Such as when a series of stamps have a unifying image and are issued in a strip, each stamp being different but part of the overall image..
An example is provided here.

September 28, 2003 Paolo B.

It is not possible for me to enter in the detail of whom those forgers are, because I simply don't know.
It was told me, by an authoritative font, in vague terms, that those (since there are several others) are creations of a group of doctors (in medicine) from northern Italy.
Funnily, I replied facetiously to that piece of information, referring to the people whose interest is attracted by that stuff, stating that "pei coglioni 'n c'è medicina" slang[~ for the fools -- lit. "balls"-- there ain't no medicine -- slang, double negation that denies].
Anyway, where the hell else would one in his/her right mind expect to find a December 23, 1863 on that kind of franking combination for that start price, other than on a fake object?
Paolo

September 28, 2003 Brian R

It's all downhill from here, buddy! LOL :o)

September 28, 2003 Mauro Mowszowicz <salesATurured.com>

Zusammendrucke
Jim WS, Paolo B, thanks =) but what im looking for is a propper english word! the french one is Se-Tenant....
Regards
Mauro

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Brian
Legitimacy. :-Þ

Mauro
No idea.
Literal translation is printed together. Tete-beche?

September 28, 2003 Paolo B.

Mauro I think Zusammen-drücke (= printed together) refers to combinations of different postage stamps in the same sheet. I'd suggest to wait for a confirmation, though.

Bri -- What's a coy? A coglione?
Paolo

September 28, 2003 Brian R

BTW-- Kevin Baker if you are lurking on this site, you might have noticed, I nipped the scan from your site. If you don't want me to ever do this, please just say so.

September 28, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg <Ruttenberg@msn.com>

George K: Your last post
George: Could you drop me an email? I need to ask you some questions about your last post. I am in the middle of settling with a particular individual, and want to make sure I am not doing anything prematurely. If he is involved in the alterations, then I prefer to litigate against him rather than give him the benefit of the doubt.

September 28, 2003 Brian R

Paolo No need to be coy here. Just come right out and tell us what you think. LOL

September 28, 2003 George K

Frankly, I find it hard to believe there are many "natural" stamps left. The ones Alison is being bitten by are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg; most sit like little time bombs in peoples' collections, where they will go off when they or their heirs try to dispose of them.

September 28, 2003 Mauro Mowszowicz <salesATurured.com>

Hi folks, need some help, anyone knows the correct english word for german "Zusammendrucke"?
Regards
Mauro
 

September 28, 2003 George K

This is FRAUD, and I really don't understand how nicely this board treats this criminal. It's too bad that this is not a sexy enough crime to interest politically motivated DA's.

September 28, 2003 Paolo B.

Scum Alert
This item is fake (adhesives probably genuine, but all of the cancels are fake).
Seller recently changed ID "skandemberg" (to make it look like "skandenberg" who is a honest stamp dealer from Milan).
Paolo
 

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Richard W
To the writer, the meaning is obvious.
To the reader, the meaning is not obvious unless you make the statement explicit.
Why SG could get away with writing something is doubtful without explaining why it is doubtful is beyond me.
The stamp obviously exists, there is no doubt about it.
Whether is was issued and postally used is another matter entirely.
If they had written that is was never issued nor postally used or even if there was doubt as to whether it was ever issued or postally used, it would be far better.
But, then again, SG has never employed me as an editor.
Same goes with uncertain. There is no uncertainty as to whether such a beast exists.
Just uncertainty as to who made it and for what purpose.

In much the same manner as Nick's overprinted Channel Isles stamps.
There is no dispute as to the fact that they exist.
He is selling them and people are apparently buying them.
There seems little doubt that they are not original, since, the originals sell at in excess of £500.
It is also implied that they could be 1974 "infamous" (?) forgeries.
Also probably doubtful.
Did Nick make them? Enough doubt here to make them doubtful.

September 28, 2003 Richard W

degrees of dubiety
Jim W-S - Does that mean that "doubtful" is worse than "uncertain", status-wise? If it's all much the same, how do we describe something that is genuinely of unknown status, i.e. we simply don't know? I ask because maybe I need to alter these comments on my site, judging by Chris C's reaction.

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dang Christo, you've got me doing it now.
David B's (and I know it's not the correct spelling, even in Hebrew).

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Jim G
I won't be any less of a weenie tomorrow :-Þ

Richard
When I quoted SG's comment that the imperforate 5 f 1944 baitoushan was of "doubtful status", Dabid B's reply was that it probably "walked out of the door" of the printing office, or was scrap (waste).

September 28, 2003 Richard W

"Of uncertain/unknown status" - how do you all understand this? Does it mean what it says, or is it generally used pejoratively?

September 28, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 28, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Birthday Man
Jim W-S, forgive me, I haven't forgotten, it is just that I am late as usual. Wish you a wonderful day and upcoming year!

September 28, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Sorry, Hidee = hidden

September 28, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Rob FauxRegardless of money, I think everyone enjoys the hobby - whatever they collect and whatever they are able to afford. Myself am slowly getting around to accepting that if you haven't got a lot of money to spend, then at least spend it on the best quality you can afford. At least then you don't have to worry about the estate - (but I still need to teach the family about the hidee, intrinsic value).

September 28, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 28, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Richard W & Dave P

Be thankful you don't have to fill out US taxes.
Damn thing comes in a +150 page book.
It's no wonder that lavar is kept busy and that Turbotax is the biggest selling program in the US.

September 28, 2003 Richard W

tax returns
Dave - I thought of that. But then I thought - I find it easier to rough it out in pencil first anyway. In which case I might as well just ink it over on the paper and send it off, rather than go to all the trouble of filling it in again online. Anyway, if you find depreciation of equipment tough, you ought to see the "service cap benefit" designed for ministers of religion! I really must stop posting here and get it done ..

September 28, 2003 Richard W

Chris - forgot to say - maybe naively, in my book "of uncertain status" or similar means literally just that, & certainly doesn't mean "definite dud". But if I'm out of line here, maybe others will tell me so?

September 28, 2003 Dave P

Richard W I sypathise, I am supposed to be trying to finish my tax return. Have you tried doing it over the net? I thought I had cracked it, but then couldn't find how to put in equipment depreciation. Back to pen and paper :(

September 28, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Let's try something new
Nick - Aside from selling, do you also have an area of special interest that you collect?

September 28, 2003 Richard Warren

Now back to that tax return.

September 28, 2003 Rob Faux

doubling
Richard W Not a problem. Like you, I'm doing other work with periodic brakes. Don't have references nearby, nor the actual stamps. It's worth continuing to discuss as I know I have much to learn.

Rob

September 28, 2003 Richard Warren

Sorry if this is ill considered. Right now, I'm really meant to be doing my wife's tax return (deadline 30th Sept in the UK). Not that our finances are complex or huge, but because she's a minister of religion (yes, for real, not a tax scam), so they send this archaic, stupid form with complex expenses to enter. I hate doing this. So I keep taking a break at the pc ...

September 28, 2003 David Benson

Chris, my view too, strange what people will pay huge amounts for, just a mistake in turning back the wheels, not genuine usage.

David B.

September 28, 2003 Chris Ceremuga

Burma & Hong Kong
David Benson, Hong Kong cancel dated 21st is genuine probably posthumously backdated - at least that's Patrick Pearson's & the RPSL's view of it. But I recall seeing one in a Spink HK auction described as such and still est at HK$20,000-25,000


Richard Warren, on one of my blocks of the 3c the impression into the paper is very strong = 100% certainty it is typo, on other blocks & singles it is varaible but mostly quite weak, but the microscopic characteristics are definite. State crest issue - can locate only 1 single at the moment - looks typo, but need to look at some multiples.

Marks between stamps on a typo printing block: This would be due to the hollow areas (depressions/valleys) between the stamp cliches not being deep enough, so dirt & ink accumulates and fills the shallow valley, so that area of the plate is then able be inked & then to touch the paper and transfer some of the ink. That is why those marks may be inconsistent & transitional. Some marks could also be constant if its actually the result of the metal/wood plate surface etc not being hollowed enough between the stamp impressions, or deformed during printing due to the pressure.

With the imperfs/proofs saying that something is of "uncertain status" or "unknown status" throws doubts on the authenticity of the item or its provenance. Which I think is being unfair on those Independence issue items.

When I get time to finish some research into the Farmer issues I would have some comments about that matter too as to me it looks like the whole theory of "illegitimate reprints" is an unsubstantiated fantasy, and that one is really merely dealing with different original printings done duering the correct period, and so I consider some of the imperfs etc to be genuine (but from proof or printer's archival sheets - so not issued). But I still need to get more perf sheets before I start arguments on that topic.

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Brian

Interesting auction.
The sellers feedback is equally amusing.

September 28, 2003 Rosemary

Rosemary

September 28, 2003 12:30 Dave F. (moderator)

Tommy Ato: Sorry, I am not going to argue with you. I have deleted your posts.

et Georges: Vous aussi.

September 28, 2003 Rob Faux

Russia doubling
Chris & Richard W Ok, are you certain that issue is litho? It's an old scan and something I looked at a while ago.

As far as poor print quality - well, yes - technically any doubling is 'poor' printing quality as it was not intended for the final product. I've seen litho printing in practice and have seen the lines Richard refers to. I would expect to see this sort of doubling more often on this issue than I saw when I went through a sizable stack of them. This one stood out from the rest because it was there.

That's my only point. Again, I'm not an expert, just a guy with just enough information to be dangerously wrong....

Rob

September 28, 2003 David Benson

Jim, not on vacation for another 5 hours, would have been leaving in 2 but someone (whose name I will not mention) did not finish packing the last of the Ebay sales, 19 to go plus whatever is in the mail this morning). Doesn't matter as it is 1 1/2 days travel and makes little difference.

Chris is right of course it is a bad fake. Chris, did you see the genuine with 1 day before usage, very unusual but possibly posthumously cancelled with the wrong date.

David B.
 

September 28, 2003 Rob Faux

Tommy Nor am I looking to argue with you either. I'm merely saying this. If you wish to continue to have a site to discuss such things, what is wrong with giving Dave F registration information so that he (not I or anyone else) can contact you if there is something that you write that may be misconstrued as an attack? If you don't wish to have such a site, then why are you here? I think Dave is trying to provide a forum where all individuals can feel safe to post. Personally, I don't enjoy reading posts like Georges calling people sh*t in French. Nor do I enjoy seeing David B calling out Addie to taunt each other. Nor do I enjoy seeing Nick taunting others... Does that mean I dislike any/all of you personally - not necessarily b/c I don't know any of you enough to decide or announce to the world. But, I do know I don't like the actions.

Perhaps both Dave and I are too much the idealists? That must be it.

 

September 28, 2003 noon Ferd W.

Litho Question
Richard Warren- Have you contacted Leonard Hartmann, the book dealer,rumor has it he writing on Litho. items,and may be able to suggest a source ! Good Luck. FW

September 28, 2003 19:57 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Being lotus
Tommy Ato--Come on admit it, we are the same person, and if you like you can use my email for your postings.

Come on Tom play the game, give out your address, you know you really want to!

The real lotus

September 28, 2003 Richard Warren

As for the independence set being typo, I do understand what you are saying about ink edges etc, but my main point is - if they were printed from a relief block, how come we see these kinds of surface marks that I've documented, which don't seem to be consistent, but seem to develop as printing progresses? Surely they just have to be stray bits of ink on a surface plate? I have to say that on my sheets of the 1c and 3c, I just can't see the sort of faint "embossing" on the reverse that we always associate with the pressure of a relief block into the paper, but of course I take your word that it's visible on yours. Do you have any similar thoughts on the "state crest"?

September 28, 2003 Brian R

LOL...I think "intertaining" is my new word for interesting and entertaining.

September 28, 2003 Chris Ceremuga

Russia, Hong Kong & Burma
Rob Faux,

Russia 7500R - I agree with Richard W that it is not a double impression, but merely poor printing quality

Hong Kong 1891 Jubilee overprint - unfortunately a poor forgery


Richard Warren,
I had a quick look at some of the Burma Independence 1c & 3c etc that I have - I am afraid I have to disagree with your theory that they are litho printed. To me they are reasonably clear examples of fairly primitive typo printing. The pressure used appears to have been fairly weak, but the typo impression in the paper is still very definite on some stamps, as are the microscopic details of the ink edges. As far as the imperfs & proofs you mention on your website I feel you are being too harsh. All printers would always do some sort of "proofs" once the plate was prepared before the start of the printing run, either/both to inspect the quality & operation of the press so any adjustment could be made (in any color the printer felt like using or had handy) and/or for approval of colors by higher authorities. I can add that on modern printing presses when stamps are printed often a "proof" run is done of 100s of sheets! Also either unfinished (imperf) or finished (perf/roul) sheets would be normally kept by the printer for records or his "archives". So I am sure those imperfs & proofs of this issue are genuine & legitimate. Forgeries of course exist as well.

September 28, 2003 Brian R

Chosen for: The interesting item.
The sellers choice of category to list under.
A level of spelling prowess you'll appreciate.

September 28, 2003 Rob Faux

Wandering perfs
Clark If I recall, the perforating wheels each could be 'locked' into place. If one didn't hold in place while feeding, then it could have wandered a bit?

But, I think it more likely that this may be feeding of multiple sheets at a time. With multiple sheets the edges of the lower sheets may slip a bit?

This is only speculation points for discussion. I really don't know.

Rob

September 28, 2003 Rob Faux

Jim W-S Seasoned? Is that what this is? I wondered why I was so tired.... Second year they add the advising load, the committee load AND you are (unfortunately) much more aware of what else needs doing... And, I'm not bright enough to lay off when I see something that needs doing. :)

I'm probably more seasoned than most second years b/c I had two years as a contract educator at a state school, and time as a trainer in business. But, the whole academe thing in its fullest is still pretty new.

Richard W Interesting. I will say that the doubling appears pretty consistent on the left half of the stamp with it becoming less pronounced as you go right. There is also a double impression listed for this stamp by Scott's (not that this means huge amounts since they are not specialized in the area). I have not looked at the stamp in a while, so don't know what else to say. But, will look at the links you provided more carefully later.

Christo I agree that we do forget also that there are people for whom large amounts of money to me are small amounts for them. And, of course, there are some sellers who do forget those of us with less money -but there are many that do not.

Tommy Did it ever occur to you that having the email address might allow Dave or others the chance to privately ask for clarification of statements, etc. without making a big deal of it publicly BEFORE removing said posts? If you register with Dave you don't have to provide the email on each post & he might be able to clarify and ask for voluntary moderation.

September 28, 2003 Richard Warren

Tommy A - you don't deny being Lotus, then?

September 28, 2003 1111 Clark (reperf)

Wandering Perforations
When discussing late 19th and early 20th Century Bureau perforating equipment, it has been noted, especially for flat plate coils, that the rows of perforations should always be parallel. Apparently, the perforating equipment for the various Bank Note series did not follow exactly the same set of rules as shown by this J22 partial plate strip. Today, I received an email indicating that this strip is, in fact, not unique and there exists at least one other similar to it, having the same plate number and plate position. Any theories or explanation?
 

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Brian
You might get a kick out of this page beware of popups though.

Richard W
Ethics are societally or personally defined.
There are those who believe that if what they do, does not break the law, then it is OK.
Despite the fact that they would probably not like to be at the receiving end of their own actions.
The "do to others, as you would have them do to you", does not enter their philosophy.

Rob
Hi, how does it feel to be a seasoned educator?
BTW, David B is on vacation for the next two weeks.
Though I doubt the fact will stop him from posting.

September 28, 2003 Christo van Zyl

With respect to Lotus, well I believe in one thing, and that is to do the thing which is morally the correct thing to do. I don't like to see the uninformed getting taken for a ride. So I would support people emailing your potential sellers, alerting them to the fact that some of the stamps you are selling have fake overprints. I prefer not to spend my hard earned money on bogus items, I would rather spend it on the real maccoy! This to me is almost similar to your neighbour. He is away for the weekend, and a fire breaks out. Would you just let it be (not call the fire brigade) because that is interference/meddling in someone elses affairs?
Sorry, this is getting a bit long, and I need a bite now..

September 28, 2003 Richard Warren

But I'd be very interested in any comments from others on this!

September 28, 2003 Rob Faux

September 28, 2003 Richard Warren

More importantly, Bill Weiss - I was surprised to see one particular name in your listing below of "the very top rung of dealers" (in connections with gems), as I know for a fact that this particular firm has been on the receiving end of some heavy correspondence from offended parties in connection with their habitual internet retailing of trashy topical illegals. Not that I know anything much about US dealers, not often buying from them, I admit. But I'm surprised and suspicious when it seems that a dealer is working both ends of the market, as it were, simultaneously handling (apparently) fine material at high prices at one end of the office with rip-off cheap junk at the other end. A dollar is a dollar, I know, but I can't quite believe that someone can successfully split their personality this way, ethics-wise.

September 28, 2003 Brian R

Bill W It looks as like somebody bought your book. :o)

September 28, 2003 9:53 Dave F. (moderator)

"Jorge Castiglione": Please add your name to that list.

September 28, 2003 8:55 Dave F. (moderator) <stampchatid@pacificanalytics.com>

unregistered IDs
"Tommy Ato" and Jerry K.: Would you please email me at the address above about registering your ID's on here.

September 28, 2003 Brian R

Tommy Ato I'm still waiting to hear something constructive, or even just positive, out of you. Any seller who puts up their wares up on a public site, is and should be, open to scrutiny. It's a two way street, to post a "hey get a load of this" post, because if your wrong, the laughs are on you. The benefit we all get is the knowledge that follows. YOU might not like John's post about the RW1, but look at all the interesting info on RW1's, and gem stamps in general, it inspired. Little 'ol Scottless me pick up some info!

September 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Wow, you guys were certainly busy last night, took me nearly an hour to catch up.

Jim G (not the Hungary one), I poke fun at your collecting of MNH at times but it is purely in jest.
I think you have a great collection and more power to you for researching before jumping in at the deep end.

In my thematic collection, I have found it necessary to research a lot of different countries and different areas of philately prior to making buying decisions.
The knowledge shared by the people on this and other boards has proved invaluable.
Extending from tip-offs where sellers have made no mention of the theme to values of uncatalogued covers.
From fakes and forgeries to unmentioned gems.
From differences between a boat, a ship, a bark and a bite.

September 28, 2003 Victor Horadam <horadam1@airmail.net>

Interesting reading, especially regarding the concept of pricing and gems. I all goes to show you that catalogue values are only that - values for the typical stamp like the one listed. While the price paid is a more complex calculation which considers the quality of the actual stamp in question, the true rarity, the economics of the buyer, and the condition of the economy at that time.

September 28, 2003 05:13 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a registered airmail cover from Hong Kong to Scotland in 1946. Take a walking tour of Sheung Wan!

September 28, 2003 Dave p

Re the Ebay UK statement about the law and forgeries, I think this is taken out of context slightly. I am willing to be corrected, but I think it is only trade (and possession) of current instruments that is covered under the act they refer to. It is illegal to even posess a forged US dollar bill for example, but not a forged confederate one. There are similar harsh restrictions when it comes to hallmarked precious metal. For anything else (ie forged collectibles) possession and even production and sale of forgeries is not prohibited if it is not done to deceive. However a sale with even a hint that an object "might" be genuine would probably be an offence under criminal law and actionable under civil law. If anyone knows better please chip in. I am, to say the least, somewhat rusty on the subject. Doubtless the law in other countries will differ.

September 28, 2003 David Benson

Dave, and while your there patting Paypal, give them an extra pat for including PAY on MyEbay, it takes the hassle out of multiple payments to the one seller,

David B.

September 28, 2003 03:54 AM Jim Lawler <jlawler@comteck.com>

Jim L.

September 28, 2003 Dave P

Paypal
It seems that paypal do listen to criticism. From next month the sellers protection scheme is to be extended (to a limited degree) to UK sellers. It will also be possible to have "confirmed" addresses within UK and Canada. Limited, but a step in the right direction. Well done Paypal (gosh, did I say that!).

September 28, 2003 03:26 Bjorn Munch

Multiples of catalogue
Also modern stamps can go for multiples of CV, here's one extreme case of a 1960 definitive which sold for 150x CV. Apparently this stamp is very rare in "luxury" quality.
 

September 28, 2003 Roger Heath

Comin' at you
Ahoy Lavar -
Here's a great painting of the full rigged clipper ship Golden State coming down wind straight at the viewer. This is on the web site you linked to, great site in every aspect of sailing.

Roger
 

September 28, 2003 Roger Heath

PMG
Lavar -
While you are licking the Stamps of State, I'll be unseen under the table licking your shoes, and collecting "fees" for the special surcharges and overprints we'll be printing to balance the budget. We need a tough Gov, and administrators who know how to make The Man feel like a man.

To show you how I can help in other areas of your administration, here's the poop on the royals. A bark (ship, not a doggy sound for the information of landlubbers) has square sails on all masts except the mizzen (the rear most mast), which is rigged fore and aft. Therefore, a 4 masted bark has 3 masts with square sails, and a mizzen.
Then one needs to consider the sails from deck level to masthead. The lowest square sail is the main, next the gallant, then top gallant (sometimes divided in half for ease of handling (such as a 4 master, hence double t'gallants), then royals, finally skysails (very rare on any other than the top of the line full rigged ships). The illustration also shows studding sails mounted on the gallant and top gallant yards, extending outboard, thus increasing sail area in light conditions.

One of the most interesting aspects of commercial sailing days is that captains saved all their new sails for rounding Cape Horn or other strong, windy locations. They were new and the strongest sails. Who would put up old sails that might blow out, just when full power was needed? The tatty sails were saved for the light air areas, where if a squall them out it didn't matter as much if sails blew out. They could be repaired and sent up again during light conditions, but not heavy. A ship could lose crew if it was necessary to change sails during stormy conditions. Captains didn't usually take that chance.

This working in Sacramento is going to be fun, and since we'll have all the philatelists on "our" side, we can go after the yachties in Marina Del Rey uncontested. They won't be able to say, "You don't understand us." We will be thinking square rigged rather than fiberglass, so heck with them.

Sail on Lavar,

Roger

 

September 28, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 28, 2003 Lavar Taylor

No wonder I can't do HTML, it's after midnight. Front

September 28, 2003 Lavar Taylor

Back

September 28, 2003 Lavar Taylor

The ship "Kommodore Johnsen" was built in 1921 and given the name Magdalene Vinnen. The ship was rigged as a four-masted barque carrying royals over double topgallant sails [do NOT ask me what this means, I just copied this from another website]. In 1936 the ship was sold to Norddeutscher Lloyd Line and used as a schoolship in the Australian wheat trade. (To learn more about the Australian wheat trade read here .) The ship was given to the Soviet Union in 1945 as war compensation and renamed the Sedov. The Sedov remains in use today and is currently the largest sailing vessel in the world.

September 28, 2003 08:17 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

2 out of 3 ain't bad
Anne--Not true that am messing you about, since your (the board collectively) interference in my affairs first started, have I not:

1.Ceased to use the word probably.
2.Used the words "forged overprint" on all my sales since.
3.Only quoted cat value preceded with the words "for reference purposes"
4.Stopped making reference to the Swastikas possibly being 1974 vintage.

Does that sound like someone messing you about, remember I did not have to carry out those changes, I have ebays mail still that confirms they see nothing wrong with my descriptions. Mind you before any of you get carried away with your success in "changing me", I only made these changes for my customers benifit, not yours, as I have stated many times before, had you wrote to me in a friendly manner instead of the way you choose to do your business I would have made THOSE changes immediately without a fight. So please do not add me to your list of so called successes.

So at least two of the people involved has admitted to breaching ebay rules by interfering with my auctions and come clean (come on No.3 you know you want to come out of the closet, remember I know who you are, you know, and so does ebay), shall we all condone this practice then, or do what you do best and sweep this one under the carpet and never talk of it again? Next time you ask me to stamp the rear of my stamps, in the same breath ask these people to stop breaching ebay rules!

Just so you know, my contact at ebay tells me any complaint that comes in with the name dbenson attached to it, is treated pretty much the same as any advice the guy who shouts at traffic in the high street might give you.

Benson-Go on then, I am dying to know, what is wrong with the inverted swastika overprint?

Swastikas-What laws am I breaking with the Swastikas, I do not know or claim to know what year they were made. My supplier tells me he thinks they were struck during the War, mind you he would say that would'nt he. Look it is impossible to own a genuine Swastika overprint being as the only set is in the Jersey Museum, so what is so wrong in giving collectors an opportunity to own a nice copy. These stamps can never resurface in future years with an owner claiming them to be real. I go to a great deal of trouble to buy these copies, and do not always make a great deal of profit on ebay with them, but they ARE very popular. Point to note, just about every sale of these stamps I sell I get the same question asked "can you get hold of the 1d & 11d value for me". If I could get hold of them I would clean up, but the fact is, the 1d and 11d were never overprinted and I have never, ever seen a forged copy either. If only what you say were true, I could roll off a few copies and almost retire!

1d Blacks-How dare you attack my 1d Blacks sales. Whenever I sell one on cover or piece and it is not "tied" I mention that fact. It reduces the final price I get by up to 2 thirds doing this, but I do not rip off my customers no matter what you think or say.

Sorry for the long post, got carried away.

Nick

September 28, 2003 anne <abt1950@granddaughter of immigrants.com>

Seconding Roger
Well put, Roger.

September 28, 2003 anne <abt1950@immigrants>

Seconding Roger
Well put, Roger

September 27, 2003 anne <abt1950@asbestosovercoat.com>

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of a placid but philatelically interesting board, better health to Eddie, and forgeries marked as such on the back. Anne

September 27, 2003 Roger Heath

John's Post
John -
I think in the morning you will be asking David to remove your post so it doesn't sit in the archives making you look foolish for more than one night.
I don't understand why you would make such an uncompassionate post concerning Alison's situation, it was down right rude and I think you should apologize to her. I can't believe you didn't need some friendship, compassion, and comfort when your wife was ill. So why don't you offer a few hints on how to get through the tough episodes, rather than seem so callous and tough? You certainly could email Alison and express concern and help, since you seem to be that kind of guy, but....... you just put your foot where it doesn't belong.

I think you're also very rude to any Mexican who comes to the US to better his/her life, as my father brought his family from England to find us a better life. Every time I see comments like these it makes me puke, that someone can have such a prejudiced attitude towards people born in another country. The incredible irony is that most Americans (?) treated my Dad like royalty because he had an English accent interpreting it as "classy". They never knew he was a Midlands working class trained auto assembly line mechanic doing his best to survive after being forced to leave school by his father when he was 14.

And as for Dr. Jerry, why don't you also email Alison with your helpful suggestions rather than use a public forum to belittle someone's attempts to get through life. Geees!

Roger

 

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

MAGNOLIA!
JOHN; I decided before retiring for the night to check here one last time because I had the uneasy feeling I was being picked on, and I see I was right. I don't know what got you upset at me, and frankly I don't much care. Trust me when I say that our auction will do fine with or without you. I have found you over the past few months to be supportive of sellers who lie and cheat and much of what you post makes little or no sense. I do not feel that I did anything to rile you up other than to expresss my thoughts on gem quality stamps and their true value - which you somehow took offense to. You are intolerant of those who don't see stamps the way you see them, which is generally CHEAP. You criticize dealers whose prices seem high to you, yet doubt prices that seem too low, in other words, if it's not the way you want to see it, you are annoyed. Amen and good night.

PS Anyone who would openly criticize a person who is lovingly caring for an ill child is someone I feel truly sorry for. The real meaning of life has sadly passed you by.

September 27, 2003 Michael Walter

Jim
I'm like you in the fact that I pick a series and collect that series until it is complete. As Far as the 19th century issues go I only buy things that allow for certification after the purchase and I stick with sellers like Posner and William Lang, You might pay a little more but you can be assured that it is described correct.

September 27, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 27, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

John in Ms.(where we have our share of Mexicans living off the system too)

September 27, 2003 Michael Walter

Jim Griffith
Jim -I collect only Gem U.S. issues myself. I do collect used stamps prior to 1870. I just looked at your site. 6 years of collecting -looks pretty good to me. I liked what I saw

September 27, 2003 21:15 Dave F. (moderator)

Some cllarification
I think discussions about margins and gum skips (and winter and summer gum) are highly appropriate on here. Excellent points have also been made about gems, catalog values, and the like.

It's about learning more about philately. These posts and others like them help enormously.

I just do not think it is appropriate to criticize how another person has chosen to deal with a life-changing incident, especially on here. I would like any criticism of what Alison shared on here earlier to please cease now. Thank you.

September 27, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 27, 2003 Jerry K

I know what nurses make and or charge.But if the boy is that bad off,he should have been on S.S.I. a long time ago,and as a single parent you should know that along with that comes Medicade.Which by the way he should elidgeable for.But it still seems that your looking for an easy way out.I raised 2 children on my own after I lost my wife some 30 years ago.And I did a decent job of it,and worked 6 days a week.Hell with all the illegals in Co.who are drawing of the system I'm more than sure that you too could get some help somewhere.There are others whom are qualifide to give shots.I know this to be more than true.Because one of my girls had the same problem and now leads a fairly normal life,at 31 yrs old.

September 27, 2003 Michael Walter

Children
My secret that got my children (two boys ages 6 and 9) into collecting stamps was letting them collect topicals with subjects two young boys like. Fast cars, tanks, airplanes, etc. They do not like stamps that picture "those old guys". I figure let them collect what they like and can relate to and as they grow older so will their collecting interests.

September 27, 2003 Michael Walter

Alison R/ Help?
Alison -I have two young children of my own and they are my world. I would not know what I would do if I were in your shoes. I took care of my father who had M.S. for the last 15 years of his life. I do understand about the medical bills. I'm with you in asking Jerry: What help? Medicare and my father's veteran statis took care of alot and we still almost ended up broke. I'm sorry for going off the topic of stamps, but feel like that must be said.

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

JERRY K; I'm not quite sure who you are or what your beef is, but just a quick comment. The fact that today's youth are uninterested in stamps (as you say) is not that folks like us are discussing gems or margins, because I assure you, kids aren't watching this board. Generally, I think who watches this board is adults who either would like to become more informed or others who feel a need to spend some time helping others. Kids are not exposed to stamp collecting because their parents feel more comfortable sitting them in front of a computer starting at age 4 or 5 so that they can watch the pretty color cartoon-like pictures dancing in front of their eyes. I have a 5-year old grandson. He will look at a stamp for a minute or two, but happily sit in front of either a cartoon show on TV or on the computer

If you have better ideas, by all means, tell us what your secrets are.

Now I am done for the night. Have a rough day tommorrow playing poker!

September 27, 2003 Roger Heath

Cat values and neat cards
Interesting reading -
I think catalogue values are a genric price for insurance companies and stamp traders. These people need a value to make "all things" equitable. It is obvious that most of what I own are not full catalogue value, most of what is offered on Ebay is not full catalogue value, but this doesn't matter. We're collecting what interests us within a budget that allows us to continue. I would be a lot smarter about "gem" quality if I had the money to buy gem quality, but owning only 10 stamps would make me feel like a stamp "investor", ggrrrrrrr!

I received this and this, this week. Along with others, I have an offer for this. When I get all 11 (there may be more) cards from this correspondence, I think I've collected some neat items, where the catalogues can give no indication of value except for the 5 & 10 centimes stamps on cover, which is completely meaningless. I look forward to researching the story of this German Sergeant paymaster. The dates extend from his stationed in Germany in 1899, (missing 1900), receiving cards in China during the Boxer Rebellion 1901, and continuing through his return to Germany in 1902. Translations will be necessary. When I have received all the cards, I think I have an interesting one frame exhibit, that won't have cost $500.

All for now, be good to each other, <[; >P
Roger



 

September 27, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Throwing in the towel
Jerry: I mean throwing in the towel on the stamps resale business. I am not sure what you mean by find a Nurse? A Nurse at $20-$40 bucks an hour? What help? There are only two Nurses, in the Rocky Mountain States Region that are trained in Hemophilia care, and they both work for the Rocky Mountain Regional Hemophilia Center, and they are both great resources, but they are not going to babysit while I am in trial in a courtroom and unreachable So, What are you talking about? The "help" that is available for medically disabled persons is medicaid (federal) and cover Colorado (state). My point was that I would rather file bankruptcy rather than palm off forged and altered material on the collecting public, like some of Lotus' resellers.

September 27, 2003 Jerry K

Jerry Katz
 

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

SEE, I was too LOW on two out of 3!

MIKE W; Your eyes aren't deceiving you but the stamp is still a #35. The Type V 10c can have up to two pearls at the sides, but never 3, and sometimes none on the left side.

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

ALAN KATZ
JIM G; Your confusing Stu Katz (who sells for both himself and Langs on eBay) with ALAN KATZ (Ventura) who does not sell on eBay. Personally, along with Champagne, I believe A. Katz has the best "eye" among all professionals, although that being said, all of the top rung dealers have excellent eyes for quality.

September 27, 2003 Michael Walter

possible deal of the day!
Bill (or anyone) Are my eyes failing me or do I see pearls on both sides of the shells? 35? I can't tell too much from the scan. Could this be a 32 or 33? What do you think of the bottom perfs? Reperf or not? I do see pearls on both side which are not common on a #35.
 

September 27, 2003 Chip G

Quiz Answers (sort of)
Don't want to let the gap between my quiz questions and the answers get too big, and I'm going to bed - so, here's the answers to the What did I sell for? game:

Contestant number 1 - I am a copy of Scott 311 with a catalog value of $55 and I was lot 70 in the Brody sale at Shreves in December 2002. I sold for Click here to find out (scroll to lot 70).

Contestant number 2 - I am a Never Hinged copy of Scott 310 with a catalog value of $1100 and I was lot 347 in the Premier sale at Shreves in May, 2003. I sold for Click here to find out (scroll to lot 347) - You should also look at some of the other items on this page !

Contestant number 3 - I am a used copy of Scott 117 with a catalog value of $150 and I was lot 220 in the Premier sale at Shreves in May, 2003. I sold for Click here to find out (scroll to lot 347)

For those of you playing along at home, the total catalog value was about $1300. Total sales were about $10,000 - Plus another $1000 for the buyers premium, plus agents fees, if the buyers used an agent.

No, I did not purchase any of these, I like my stamps on the original envelopes these days. Good night all, talk quietly amongst yourselves in my absence.

Chip

September 27, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Corrections
That was a #351 from Papermagic. Also, received undisclosed forgeries from Abraham Siegal (a Western Ukraine cover), Matthew Roth, Minnesota Stamp Company and Pessers ("expertized" Albania reprints).

September 27, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Forgeries, altered stamps, trying to make an ethical living
Clark (Reperf): Thank you for your kind words. It is hard, and at times I think I am going to have to throw in the towel and file Chapter 7 and go on Medicare to take care of Eddie. I have been bull headed in the past, as Ricard F. has pointed out. He has been wrong a few times, more often than not I was wrong. I have decided this summer that I will promptly end all questionable auctions, upon notification, and if I am bankrupt as a result so be it.

Here are some interesting statistics regarding problems with wholesalers and forgeries: In the last three thousand or so transactions, I have had 7 returned for bad certificates. Two were from Anglo-American wholesale lots and were specialized Germany materials. He promply made good on the problems. One turned out to be a fake $351 coil line pair from Papermagic. The rest were from Roecy (a reperfed #122, a C-15 with small surface scrape and two regummed $5 Columbians; we recently settled potential litigation and I will not take anything from him wholesale again not under any circumstances. I do want to point out, however, that I have received much quality material from him in the past, especially cover collections). Regarding other sellers, I have received undisclosed forgeries from the following: TongDoc (Davitt Felder), Apfelbaumin (no surprise) and Scotia Philatelics (ColinHarding on ebay).

September 27, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

LONG Island Philatelics
Someday I may learn to proofread BEFORE I hit the "submit"!

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

GEMS
JIM G; What most folks who do not frequent the world of gem quality stamps do not realize, and what Clark touched on below, is the small percentage of gem quality stamps exist in relation to inferior copies. These gems are only getting more difficult to locate as time goes on, and there are PLENTY of collectors, like you, who understand how tough aquiring gems can be. So now imagine the very top rung of dealers who regularly try to stock such gems because they have cutivated a client base who want the gems. You only mention a few. Here are more; Century Stamps, Valley Stamps, Princeton Philatelics, Lon Island Philatelics, Steve Malack, Chris Rupp, Alan Katz (Ventura), University Stamp Co., Steve Crippe, Alan Cohen, Champagne, Litle, Posner, Langs, etc. And those are only the BIGGER names. THen there are guys like Piller, Shreve, Trepel, etc. who buy for specific well-heeled clients quietly (or not so quietly). So when a true gem quality comes up, as you correctly point out, the bidding usually starts at ful Scott.
BTW, the huge Duck stamp (RW1) we are discussing can be found if you scroll down to earlier today where someone (John) posted a link. If you take the time to look at it, you won't be sorry. It's the finest I've ever seen.

September 27, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 27, 2003 Lavar Taylor

BTW some excellent posts today. Enjoyed almost all of them.

September 27, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 27, 2003 prometheus

All and none
DD - Bad refill bad

JWS - I agree eith most of your points.

Bill W - As usual lots of excellent Info.

ChipG- Sorry too new to play that one.I hope to be a Hopefull Seller.

Lotus- I still have that Handstamp(it would have been there by NOW.)

David B- Do they ever enforce their Own rules over there. ?

NOIP - We have three Amigos ?

Jim WS - I found a Great Mt ST. Helens postcard today, and some used on airmail covers from Phillipines to Illinois meyor Volcano stamps.

Was is someone here who likes Special Delivery Postcards??

Also Got a US Government Printing Style Manual, Has every country in country, Plus all kinds of excellent reading on exactly how forms , and papers should look.

More perfins out of a pickem box,
and lots of Doanes.

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

JIM G; THank you very much! THe other thing folks like John do not realize is that quite often, these seemingly high prices are, get ready.....paid by DEALERS! Matter of fact, by far the biggest buyers in public auctions are dealers, unless it's a BIG name sale, which tends to bring out collectors.

JOHN; I hope you do come to my sale next Saturday. It will be quite an education. What you will find will be very few people attending, yet LOTS of bidding - especially on high quality stamps - from a few of the people sitting in front. These will be the professional agents, mostly bidding for DEALERS, who will often buy the best stuff. These few agents may be representing up to 100 different bidders, although I don't expect that many this time - perhaps 50 or so, and while not much bidding may come from the rest of the room, plenty will come from the agents.

September 27, 2003 18:27 Clark (reperf)

High Start Prices
One of the benefits of the on line marketplace created by the internet is the ability to expose really unique items to a much larger audience increasing their value. Conversely, as more ubiquitous items are exposed in the marketplace, their value will actually drop as buyers become aware of how common they are. As applied to stamps, the high ratio of faulty and/or inferior stamps to really choice stamps is becoming more and more evident. I would expect the best stamps to continue increasing in value while inferior and/or damaged stamps could actually decrease in value.

One problem with the eBay marketplace is the prevalence of over-describing or selling faulty or altered stamps as sound. Sellers of such items can (and do) sell them at a lower cost than sellers of better, sound stamps. Sellers who accurately describe stamps are being hurt by sellers who over-describe, at least in the short run.

I am beginning to see the wisdom in posts by Bill Langs about starting auction items at a compensatory price and placing unsold items in his eBay store. On the other hand, for junk items, it is probably a waste of time to hold out for a good price.

Unfortunately, some junk items are purchased by a certain group of eBay sellers and "recycled" as "better" items. Some if this is simply related to inexperienced sellers failing to provide good descriptions or scans. Other times, it is because the starting price was too low, and no one happened to bid. Unless one is selling items wholesale, pricing them correctly to get them directly into the hands of collectors may be the best approach, even though fewer sales take place, revenue could be maximized.

AlisonThank you for sharing your concerns. I admire your courage and forthrightness. I have been wondering for some time whether it would be possible to generate a compensatory income from selling on eBay while remaining honest and ethical. You are helping to show that it can be done. Hang in there!

-reperf

September 27, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 27, 2003 John@ Magnolia Stamps

John

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

Guessing
OK, I will be the guinea pig and make my guesses;

#311 used - $350.00
#310 mint - $5,500.
#117 used - $1,200. (And I might be too low!)

September 27, 2003 Richard Frajola

High Start Prices
Chip G I was just about to write something and saw your hilarious post (that I agree with)!

Another point that has been seemingly lost here is that the time value of money is not equal with all buyers. To some (many probably), paying $100 for an item that if they spend 6 months trying to find cheaper they could get for $35 is just no bid deal to them.

When I buy outside of my "normal" areas, I am sure I often overpay because I just don't have the time to spend looking. If the item is the quality I desire, I will usually pay 35% or more than what the item is "worth" - I understand fully what I am doing.

That is onbe of the reasons I now use "buy it now" on m,any of my listings. As a buyer, I take advantage of it frequently.

September 27, 2003 Jerry K

Enough is Enough
Chip

I will have to agree with John it does seem foolish to pay 4x what a stamp is worth and borders on the line of arrogance.But as a wise man once said a fool and his money are soon departed..So bid all you want and see how much your benefactors will get for it at an estate lot!I did not see anything posted about e-mailing bidders on these 2 lots.And yes I will agree with you that the stamps are well described,but I must say that they are over priced.

Allison

It seems to me that you have enough to do with a sick child and working 60 hrs a week,Let alone complaining constantly about lotus and a few others,From the sound of your last post it seems that there is some other problem other than the fact that he is selling fakes.Fear of an item only makes it STONGER!

Jerry Katz.

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

4X Catalog RW1
JOHN (Magnolia); There you go again! Why is it that ou have such a hard time believing that there are folks who would gladly pay 4X Scott for a truly great stamp? One problem you seem to have is that you don't pay attention. If you would bother to check public auction realizations you would find LOTS of stamps, in very high quality, regularly sell for multiples of Scott value. I myself have sold single great stamps in public auction. Here's just one quick example. A few sales ago we had a fabulous 1c 1869 (used) which catalogs $160.00. This stamp had HUGE margins and, of course, a certificate. Despite this cataog value, the owner had paid $900. for it in a Bennett auction about 3 years ago. I put a start bid on it of $500., when the smoke had settled, it brought $2,200

+ 15% = 2,530!! This is over 15X Scott value! While this was probably a price record for that stamp, such large multiples of Scott value are not uncommon, they just don't affect you, so you tend to ridicule them. If Jim Griffith were present, I am sure he could vouch for what I'm saying, as he seems like the type of collector who is on top of price realizations in public auction. My advice would be not to be so quick to mock the prices that seem so high to you, particularly on very high quality stamps. By your own admission, you obviously don't know a heck of a lot about such great stamps, and it shows by some of your comments.

On the other hand, some months ago you questioned me when I said that US #1s can be bought for under $150. if not four margins, so to prove it to you, I sent you tearsheets from my latest auction, which lists TEN copies with start bids under $100. Despite me proving you were wrong, you never bothered to acknowledge that, indeed, I showed you ten copies that have start bids under $100., therefore your challange to me was incorrect. When your wrong, your wrong.

September 27, 2003 Chip G

Lets Play a Game!
Let's play - what did I sell for?:
Catalog value $55.00?
NH, Catalog $1100?
Catalog Value $150
So, total catalog value of these three was about $1300. What was the total (with or without the 10% premium, your choice). Answers to follow.
Chip

 

September 27, 2003 Chip G

Hopefull Sellers
John: I think what I am concerned about is the "Well I wouldn't, so anyone else who would is crazy" attitude I see floating around with some of the "look at this lot" posts. On the one to which you pointed (JWS grammar police), the stamp is well described. It is the best of its kind in the world. Just because you wouldn't pay the price is no reason to say that you will send an email to anyone who does calling their sanity into question.

Yes, I would (and have) paid 4X and more of catalog value for items. I am sure that Jim G. has also. Virtually ALL of the pre 1920 stamps he has in his collection are worth multiples of catalog. Is he crazy? I don't think so.

Put the high horse back in the barn and instead of writing: "And if this one even gets a bid!I'm going to contavt the bidder and make him an offer that he can't refuse," Why don't you say "I found four of these in a dollar box. Anyone want one for $150?"

Insead of following it with "or this one," again implying scorn upon any who may want such a stamp, why don't you ASK "is this worth 4X catalog?" and then listening when people tell you that this may be the best RW1 in the world and quite probably worth it.

Both items are properly described. Gem stamps sell for 4x and greater catalog. Rare first flights may be worth $1000, and then may be found in dollar boxes.

How many of these board posters have talked about finding rare varieties (US imperforate coils, US Scott #500, unnoticed gems, etc.) in mixtures or dollar boxes. Does this mean that no one has the right to sell such an item for anything they want to? Does it mean that no one has the right to purchase such an item without you pointing your finger and going, in the words of Bugs Bunny, "What a Maroon!" I don't think so.

Like Ed, I hope that everyone takes an extra beat before jumping on an auction that is PROPERLY DESCRIBED with a price you don't like. Hit the back button and give yourself a pat on the back for not being sooooo gulible as to pay top dollar for anything. If you don't think that a suit of clothes is worth $2000, don't shop at Armani. However, leave those who do to the peaceful enjoyment of their purchases.

Lastly, as a rule, the better the condition, the better the value retention or appreciation. My mother, and Richard F (who is not my mother), will tell you to always buy the best you can afford. Cheap junk will always be cheap junk. The best will always be the best.

Note to John and moderator - I really did not mean any of this personally, I am just a bit frustrated and John's post was the catalyst for my tirade.

Chip

September 27, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

Lotus
Mark, Bill and Anne: Thank you for your kind words. I am just trying to point out that these petty schemes that people like Lotus concoct have searious financial consequences to others. Look at his past three month sales by viewing his feedback. 95% of what he sells are the fake official overprints on QV and KEVII and the fake Swastikas on KGVI and an amazing number of penny black on cover where the stamp is not tied -- how does that happen so often to one seller, especially since he does not sell hardly any other covers.

Colin: You are wrong that Lotus' auctions do not violate ebay rules. All his Swastika auctions are in violation. Before I convinced Dan Neary to change the policy, any stamp with Swastika overprint or cancel was forbidden. Now, the policy has been modified to permit WWII era philatelic items with Swastikas in overprint, censor tape, cancel, cachet, postcard design, watermark in envelope, etc. etc. Lotus modern Swastika creations are not WWII era, and therefore forbidden.

September 27, 2003 6:23 p.m. c.d.t. John@Magnolia Stamps

John

September 27, 2003 4:04 Mark Bardell

Turbo Lister
Evening all ( sounds like Dixon of Dock Green ! LOL ).

I just wanted to point out an observation when listing by Turbo Lister. At no time during your listing do you see the disclaimer that Ebay has put on their normal stamp listing pages. I.E. the fact that you are 100% certain that the stamp you are listing is genuine. The only time I see it is when it comes to relisting my stamps, as I then have to go through the Ebay "relist item" process.

I totally agree with Anne has posted below, the fact that should Mr. Lotus mark all his forgeries so, then I'm sure we would move on to pastures new.

Alison

I know that you didn't post looking for sympathy but, your situation with your son, which you are courageously (sp?) working with, really does put perspective into the fact that, day in, day out we argue about whether a small piece of paper has "forgery" stamped on the reverse or not. Or whether that same piece of paper may have had new gum applied. You have my admiration in being such a caring, patient and obviously loving parent.

Mark.

Mark

September 27, 2003 David Benson

Duncan,
very good points, especially blaming Ebay for the mess which is 100% correct.

The only way to solve it is for Ebay to fix up its own mess and that is by complaining to them direct.

David B.
 

September 27, 2003 Fred Williams

Refilling Ink Cartridges

Great way to waste money. You pay for the kit then you pay the repair shop to fix your gummed up printer.

 

September 27, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

The Bad Boy

Anne

Good post about resolving the Lotus Affair. I think that just about everybody has figured out that if Lotus would just mark his items as forgeries and mention in his offerings that they are modern, there would be nothing in dispute. That puts the ball in Lotus' court. And let me repeat his response...


"Anne-As long as moderators and diplomats like yourself exist, there will always be hope in this world. You have always spoken with a clear head and mind (despite being against a seller such as myself) and have offered solutions rather than the point scoring, which is so popular on this board.

"However for the time being I think we should put lotus and his nefarious practices aside for a moment."


Looks like you got dissed big time.

See, he's been caught doing something bad, involved in creating forgeries and then misleading his customers, and he's in the role of Bad Boy. Now he finds himself in a contest of wills and won't back down an inch, he sees that as a defeat. Notice his reference to point scoring? Its his picture of what's happening.

Reminds me of the looney neighbor, you know the one... junky shack, muddy driveway, the area looks like a junkyard... the guy who puts up homemade signs about freedom of speech and assembles an arsenal of guns to defend his property...

He hasn't got a clue that he's defending something that nobody wants!

Anybody could provide modern overprints on old stamps, there is nothing special about Lotus' offerings. And the only way to prevent their sale on eBay is to promote effective enforcement of eBay's own rules. There's little to be gained by taking these guys on one at a time. More to the point, I fault eBay for letting it get this far.

Y'all out there who want to be part of the solution, use the link at the top of this forum to report bad sales when you see the rules broken.

Notify sellers if you see an obvious mistake. I got a nice thank you for doing that. But for the repeat offenders, use your head, they are not gonna change unless they are forced by eBay to comply.

That said, however, I do have to admit to jerking Lotus' chain once in a while, hoping that someone from eBay or APS stops by here and sees his reaction.

Dana

Thanks for responding. I wonder how many folks are lurking out there? I know one guy appeared out of the ether to help me with a question, then disappeared into the mist again. There have been a lot of helpful links posted here lately, so many that it's a challenge to keep up. All very interesting.

Next Topic: printers and ink

A bit off topic I guess, but since we share printing tips quite a bit here... has anyone been successful in using ink cartridge refill kits? I tried refilling a black HP cartridge and all I got was a leaky mess. Do the refills actually work?

Duncan

September 27, 2003 Mauro Mowszowicz <salesATurured.com>

Venezuela
Bill Dempwolf, if you need any help to translate from English to Spanish just email me
Regards

Mauro

September 27, 2003 David Benson

Bill, my mistake, I thought it was the earlies you wanted info on. The later overprints haven't had much study (as they are not very interesting) but try the webmaster he might have references or knows someone who has studied that period,

David B.

September 27, 2003 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

September 27, 2003 14:10 Dana Krueger <dkrueger at kfl.com>

Best regards, Dana (regular lurker, occasional poster)

September 27, 2003 David Benson

Bill, there is a God,

The webmaster has added an automatic TRANSLATE ME at the top of every page and he does show the overprints and describes the positioning of each type.

David B.

September 27, 2003 David Benson

Bill, the only way is experience and comparison. They are difficult because of the wear of the overprint plates. If you have enough of them, then close comparison of the measurements and vagaries of type will help identify the good from the bad.

If you write to the webmaster he may be able to help you with blowups of the overprints.

David B.

September 27, 2003 Bill Dempwolf <bdempwolf@austin.rr.com>

Bill

September 27, 2003 David Benson

Nick, if you are complaining about me sending emails to your buyers, the only emails I have ever sent is to ask them to view and visit this chat. I ahve nothing against the collection of forgeries, only about those who make them and sell them without divulging the fact that they are freshly made,

David B.

September 27, 2003 Dave P

Nick/lotus Did you see my post here yesterday about one of your buyers reselling a GB official forgery as genuine?
I have no idea of the nature of others emails to your buyers, if they suggest they should not collect forgeries I agree with you, it shouldn't happen. On the other hand if they are pointing out that these forgeries are very new, should you complain, after all you should be giving all available information to your bidders, shouldn't you?

September 27, 2003 David Benson

Bill, this would most probably help you better than any catalogue,

p.s. Spanish is a necessity

http://www.mystamps.net/venezuela/fraudes.html

David B.

September 27, 2003 Bill Dempwolf <bdempwolf@austin.rr.com>

Bill

September 27, 2003 21:13 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

The 3 Amigos
A lot of sense has been posted on this board today concerning this situation, and if it were only that simple I'm sure we could all go out own seperate ways.

The problem is, there are 3 of your number, who even today, one has interfered with one of my auctions.

Just remember I did not come to this board to interfere with your business, you used this board to interfere with mine.

I only post on this board when one or three of you start playing your little games. So leave me alone and I will do the same. I only visit this board on the days I have had one of your attentions that has been pointed out to me by one of my buyers.

The three of you are very quiet today, when normally you have so much to say! All of my auctions are now over so you cannot be too busy!

Lotus

September 27, 2003 David Benson

Just sent a note to Trust & Safety UK pointing out a forged inverted Swastika overprint. Let you all know of the outcome,

David B.

September 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Bill D

BTW, you still owe us an answer to the Hawaii, Japan, New Zealand, Tahiti problem.

If anyone wants an experience, visit the eBay Beanie babies chat board.
Dark glasses are recommended.
It's easy reading, most comments do not make it beyond a single sentance.

I have personally met with a number of posters to this and the other chat boards.
And, in each case, have immeasurably enjoyed the experience.
I don't think anyone has malicious intentions to defame, remove the livilihood, or otherwise insult other persons involved in philately who conduct themselves in an honest forthright manner.

However, sometimes the frustration created by persons not conducting themselves in a forthright honest manner can lead to outbursts, which while offering immediate psychological relief, may be misinterpreted by others.
I plead guilty to such behaviour myself.
I admit to emailing newbie sellers who haven't a clue and pointing out their mistakes, hopefully in a helpful manner.
I admit to emailing sellers who use a reserve price and telling them to state what it is, up front, so I don't waste my time trying to achieve it.
I have never emailed a buyer, even to just tell them to visit a chatboard.
I have emailed seller and pointed out that the addition of certain words might help their auctions.
I have emailed ebay about sellers who appear to be shilling, but only after a lengthy study of their auctions.
I have also emailed ebay about sellers who use word spamming, particularly when it is hidden in their html files and doesn't appear on the screen.

I have also attempted to ridicule those sellers who know what they are doing but apparently don't care about the consequences as long as they are monetarily beneficial.

My apologies for long post.

September 27, 2003 Ebay

I just checked Ebay.UK and they have this in regard to counterfeit stamps,

Counterfeit Currency and Stamps
UK law strictly prohibits the sale of counterfeit currency and stamps, and equipment designed to make these illegal products. These laws ban not only counterfeit paper money, but also counterfeit coins, bank notes, bonds, money orders and other securities. UK law also protects foreign currency and stamps from counterfeiters. Therefore, these counterfeit items may not be listed on eBay.

What about replica coins for collectors? Any "reproduction," "replica" or "copy" coin (UK or foreign) must be plainly and permanently marked with the word COPY.

Community Watch
eBay Community Watch - Community members can report prohibited, questionable and infringing items to eBay.

If Ebay.UK gets a lot of complaints about counterfeit stamps possibly they may do something about it.

I have never written to Ebay.UK but will try and see what happens.

David B.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 

September 27, 2003 12.50 pm Colin Judd UK http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_stamps
 

Colin

September 27, 2003 Bill Dempwolf <bdempwolf@austin.rr.com>

Bill

September 27, 2003 anne

What's needed here is a retreat from the yelling, name-calling, and inflammatory language. If we can keep that private, we stand a much better chance of a mutually beneficial solution. Philately is really only a small sandbox. Sand thrown in one part of the sandbox is going to hit someone in another part (I won't even go into the feline pollution problem). We don't have to like each other to play nicely together. But we do need to stop throwing sand in each other's eyes.

September 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Bill D

I have been doing some searching around and it would seem that the 1989 version of SG South America is the most recent edition.
Of course it is out of print and I didn't see a copy at any of the major philatelic booksellers.
My copy was obtained in a hard fought struggle on eBay terminated with a successful snipe.

If you go to Gibbons' web site and click on bookshelf, type in Venezuela, you will get 4 books.
The first appears to be in English by C.W.Wickersham entitled "The early stamps of Venezuela" for $ 160.
Published in 1958

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

DAVE P; I wholeheartedly agree with the content of your post. Matter of fact, it should be adopted as the permanent set of guidelines for posting inaccurate eBay listings on this board. The only gray area, for me personally, is the concept of always notifying the seller first. I have found that the dishonest sellers who ARE trying to pull a fast one, merely ignore you, or, at worst, argue with you. Thus, nothing was gained by notifying them first and all it did was waste my time. I have found BUYERS to be much more responsive to info that they were not aware of, and by forming my comments to them as a question, rather than a statement, it has usually resulted in the desired outcome - to keep the buyer from being hurt financially.
Further, some sellers (someone noted that Anthony's has been notorious for misdescribed material) would likely be oblivious to honest attempts to correct their listings simply because, as alleged here, they may know full well what they are doing and do not care.
Last, you are really right about this board being somewhat lax in telling others about GOOD experiences in eBay buying. For myself, I buy a fair amount on eBay, mostly covers, and there are some very competent sellers. Dr. Robert Friedman comes to mind, as does Arden Valley, and I have been happy with everything I've bought from them.

AND, on another matter, my heart goes out to ALISON, who did not need to share such personal info with this board as she did below. Hopefully, folks like Nick might now have a clearer understanding of what makes other folks tick and respond accordingly.

September 27, 2003 Dave P

Just my half-pence worth.

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

Various
Ed B; If you are now gone forever, then so be it. Surely there are examples of some on this board who at times may be a bit overzealous, but I would bet all the tea in China that the basic intentions of most here are honorable. They (we) are trying to save folks money by buying misdescribed material, whether it be Nick's fake overprints or a stamp that's described as a better one than it really is.
You seem like a decent guy. Why would you condem folks who are trying to do something honorable and at the same time try to use a defense for Nick that defies logic? Of course no one here has literally seen him produce the fake overprints.....BUT he has already admitted that he buys the raw material, sends them to someone who DOES apply the fake overprints, than back to him for relisting as something different than the raw material. Hell, someone like me has absolutely nothing against someone like Nick, who, like you, comes across as a very interesting and sensible guy. I assure you that if Nick were to take Anne's efforts at mediation seriously, that this board's participants would accept Nick in a heartbeat.

Last, I disagree with your summation that this board is only used for negative comments about sellers. Lots of interesting and important topics are brought up here, and lots of sound advice and instruction has been discussed. I myself, just in the past two weeks, have discussed in depth how to identify regumming, reperfing and other subjects that are helpful and informative to novice and intermediate collectors. In fact, if I had one wish for this board, it would be for a lot more of the lurkers who do read the board yet don't ever post, to come on in and say something, whether it be supportive or critical doesn't matter, but at least we would know whether they find it helpful in any way. Any takers??

September 27, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg <Ruttenberg@msn.com>

My irritation with Atdinvest, Riny, Lotus, Percy C. and others who create or recycle modern forgeries and why I am unwilling to give them a "pass'
I used to have a more live and let live attitude, and as long as sellers like Atdinvest and Lotus disclosed they were selling forgeries, then so be it. But, I have changed my position because of the way the hobby is being harmed and how this is affecting me personally.

I have mentioned before that I am a single parent with a special needs child (Eddie has severe hemophilia). The average cost of medical care for a hemophiliac child is $150,000. With deductibles and 20% copays, it should not take a genius to see what I am up against. Without the care, he will end up in a wheelchair for most of his childhood -- like the hemophiliacs of my generation. It is extremely difficult for me to be a litigator while he is so young because I cannot suddenly leave the courtroom if Eddie has a bleed and I need tend to administer the blood clotting factor (I am trained to do the transfusions, and amazingly I know more about the disease than most area medical personnel since it is a relatively rare disease. If I am not readily available, then it is an expensive ambulence or flight for life ride to Children's Hospital). I work at home, doing legal briefs and research for other attorneys, and do the ebay thing to help make ends meet. I have been working 60+ hours per week.

I take big box lots off dealers' hands, either on time payments or on consignment and break up into little lots and sell for (hopefully) a small profit. However, in collections, there are increasing amounts of junk thanks to Addie, Lotus and his kind. "Rare" Third Reich covers turn out to be Addie creations and all GB, Specimen and Third Reich overprints are suspect thanks to Addie and Lotus. "Rare" imperf pairs and multiples in collections turn out to be Addie creations. Increasing amounts of fake grills, cleaned cancels, reperfs are showing up, thanks in part to Percy C. and his gang. There is a new "improvement" factory in Florida that is a new concern -- the regumming fairies. They regum US Classics, such as Columbians, Trans-Mississippi, PanAmerican, Panama Pacific, Louisiana Purchase and other classics from this era that provide a premium for MNH (and are not so old as to be suspect for being MNH). They sell their goofs (when the fake gum is uneven, mottled or too thick) as "disturbed gum." I have a whole notebook of this crap. Thus, thanks to these type of people who are dumping this garbage on the market, it is harder and harder for someone like me (who is not on the level of Bill Weiss or other long time professionals), to make even a modest living in order to make ends meet. It is very frustrating, and this is why I get so angry with Lotus and others like him for creating the problem (the fact that his customers then resell as genuine makes the situation worse.

Ed B: You miss the point about "guilty until PROVEN innocent. There is enough evidence, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that Lotus and Percy C. are legally responsible for the altered stamps -- whether they personally altered them or not. If that were not true, then Percy C. would not have been booted off Ebay.

September 27, 2003 Roger Heath

Presumption? Wrong Channel?
Ed-
I'm not being argumentative here, but when a person says, "I didn't do it. Of course I know who does it, but I'm not telling." "Yes I make a profit from it, and I feel bad for the future "customers" . "I'm not going to change my ways because this Board is trying to force me to do something I'll do all in good time if everyone gets off my case."

If Lotus stopped reading this Board he wouldn't know what we were talking about, therefore, he can taker full responsibility fro his decision without feeling he was coerced. We won't exist in his mind any more. It seems our bickering and comments make him resolute and unyielding, well he should take what the ?'s advice. "If you do not like what is showing on the television screen turn the damn channel and shut the F... up."

Roger

[moderator's note: The original post to which Roger referred was deleted. The essence of that message is captured in Roger's post.]

September 27, 2003 1800 BST Ed.B

I don't think Dave F had what goes on here at present in mind when he set up this board. I certainly do not want to be associated with it so I wont post here anymore. You might say that I contributed very little here. You may be right but remember there are many lurkers who don't post at all but read the board who could be driven away. Where will that leave you, talking to yourselves.

September 27, 2003 1745 BST Ed.B

Brian R: If your comments to Bill were about me as one of the defenders of Lotus you got that wrong. If you had bothered to read my post I had said that I did not condone his selling practices. My point was this presumption of guilt without evidence to hand. IMO, in this case viewing scans on a monitor is not exact evidence that he manufactured the fakes.

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

Ducks, etc.
BRIAN R; Somehow I doubt that we are twins! Perhaps mentally? I believe I am substantially older than you, taller than you, and - a much better golfer! (Not to mention poker). Although surely you are good at things I am not!
Regarding the Duck question - man, you really need a Scott Specialized - they say that from RW2 onward, the used price is for signed copy. It was technically illegal to deface RW1 although both signed & unsigned do exist.

How about the intelligent post from "what the" below? If it were as simple as people not telling other people what to buy and sell, he might have a decent point, but surely he must know it's not quite THAT simple, doesn't he?

September 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dave P
Thanks.
I have not had the time to personally as yet.
My television class is resulting in a very busy semester.
However, Greg Ioannou provisionally plated it from the image as plate 5.
I might add that it was a wonderful gift from Richard F.
Who postdates me by a few days.

September 27, 2003 Richard Warren

Strangely depressing to return after a longish interval and find lotus still banging on in the same vein ... Always just about to concede to some reasonable request (e.g the rubber stamp), but then always finding some convenient provocation as an excuse not to ...

September 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Bill D

Have you tried Volume 20, South America, of the SG catalogs.
Mine dates from 1989 but I think there is a more recent one, though not listed in SG's current catalogs.

Gibbons had a whole bunch of Venezuela in their "bookshelf", mostly by Hernandez Ron in Spanish.
I have never seen any of them.

September 27, 2003 Dave P

DP

September 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

A contribution to today in postal history.

A piece of postal history which has above normal significance to me.

September 27, 2003 brian

Chip G That confused ramble I ended with, was an attempt to ask, if you knew when the Duck stamp signatures became a requirement?

September 27, 2003 brian

Chip G That confused ramble I ended with, was an attempt to ask, if you knew when the Duck stamp signatures became a requirement?

September 27, 2003 Brian R

LOL! Bill W Are you sure we're not separated twins? We seem to think alike, at the same moment, a lot lately.

September 27, 2003 Brian R

Chip G OK, I'm fascinated. The RW1 was only available throught the PO window, applied by only by them, for the majority of its legal run? They didn't have to be signed (I've got a signed RW6, so sometime between 1935-39).

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

Lotus
Ed B; Perhaps you haven't been following this situation with Lotus from the beginning. He has already admitted that he knows full well that the fake overprints are being applied to stamps that he has bought. All Alison was doing, since she is an Attorney, is point out the similarity in Nick's arguments with criminal cases she has handled. There is a big difference between accusing someone of guilt before it has been proven and talking about that guilt after they have admitted to it. Nick admits it, but just twists words to suit himself.
For myself, I find him to be a bright guy, who could easily make a good living on eBay (or elsewhere) by doing things in an honorable way. I personally do not mind his selling of fake overprints so long as he identifies them as such and so marks them soas to preclude any future owner from selling them as genuine. In my opinion, Ed, YOU were too tough on Alison.

September 27, 2003 Victor Horadam <horadam1@airmail.net>

All, from sunny Dallas.

September 27, 2003 Bill Dempwolf <bdempwolf@austin.rr.com>

Bill

September 27, 2003 1440 BST Ed.B

Using your words I think you are a little self-righteous when making comments such as these. I know my justice system isn't perfect by any means but with comments like these I have more faith in my system than yours.

September 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

RW1
CHIP; Congratulations on what I feel is a great post below. I couldn't agree with you more. I have had this argument with Sarge in Frajola's board before. The start price or asking price of a seller is totally his own business and any prospective buyer may accept it or reject it. In the case of the RW1, that stamp being offered is easily the largest-margined copy I've ever seen, and a smart guy like Posner knows that as well as I do, and he's going to try to get a record price for a record stamp, and while I have doubts he will do it on eBay, I believe he will probably sell the stamp to some collector who understands that to find such a huge example could literally take a lifetime and rather than take that lifetime, he will write the check for $3,500. and then own perhaps the greatest RW1 that exists.
Your primary point that no good comes from noting to this board what looks like silly start bids is right on target. I see such silly prices and I just shake my head and hit the "back" button.

September 27, 2003 Chip G

RWI duck
Here's one from last September. Add the fees and you're up above $1400. The one on ebay is much better looking than this one, in my opinion.

September 27, 2003 Chip G

Hopeful Sellers
John/Magnolia The two lots you pointed to are not outside of the range of possibilities. While the sellers may be "hopeful," I think that you insinuated that the amounts they wanted were unreasonable and that someone bidding on either of these two lots would be wrong. Some facts, starting with the duck stamp:

The first duck stamp was issued in 1934. For 50 out of the 52 weeks, a hunter had to bring their license to the postmaster and the postmaster had to apply the stamp to the license. Sales to collectors were prohibited untli June 15, 1935 and only went on for 2 weeks before the stamp was taken off of the market and replaced by the 1935 issue. Additionally, the first stamp did not have to be signed. The vast majority of uncancelled RW1 stamps were actually used and soaked off of the license. Very few original gum stamps exist, and fewer never hinged ones than that, and fewer still with the margins in the one offered. (note to all - any gummed copy of this stamp MUST have a certificate. An original gum copy can easily bring over $1000 - check the auction results and you'll see.

As for the Midway cover, I know less about this, but I do know that some of the most valuable Prexie postal history items have been covers carried on the Pan Am Clipper from islands, such as Midway. No idea what the first flight market is these days, but there is nothing wrong with that person asking the price they want.

I am personally bothered by some of the posts that point out high openings. If an item is described correctly by a clueless seller, there is nothing to be gained by showing the world how rediculous the price is. Better is to do it privatley and leave it alone. They have all rights to ask that price. If the item is described correctly by a seller who does have a clue, there is even less to be gained. They probably know the market better than you do. Only in the case of an error of description, or attempted fraud, do I believe that a seller should be pointed out.

The insinuation in some of the posts that one would have to be a sucker to pay some of the prices is not true. Remember, anyone who paid over the face value for the >$1 Columbians for decades after they were issued was probably thought of as a sucker at the time.

Chip

September 27, 2003 13:37 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

EXTREME IRRITATION
Anne-As long as moderators and diplomats like yourself exist, there will always be hope in this world. You have always spoken with a clear head and mind (despite being against a seller such as myself) and have offered solutions rather than the point scoring, which is so popular on this board.

However for the time being I think we should put lotus and his nefarious practices aside for a moment. I am very worried about Alison R, I mean are those (see below) the rantings of a well balanced individual, or of someone who has had one OJ case too many.

For anyone just joining this board I would like to put the record straight. I am being accused of misdescribing items that I sell on ebay, I never shot anyone or beat anyone to death, honest.

Wow, is your therapist aware of these outbursts on this board.

Can I just ask, when a criminal scumbag finds he or she has you defending them, do they automatically plead guilty, or do they normally end it all before actually appearing in court?

One last question Anne, what do we do about those of you (although not you personally) that continually interfere in auctions by writing to bidders in order to spoil an auction, just thought I would ask?

Nick

September 27, 2003 Alison Ruttenberg

My extreme irritation with Lotus and his disingenuousness
Anne: The problem I have (and suspect that others are having) is that Nick is being so self-righteous and disingenuous in his denials of personally applying the overprints. Any idiot can do a side by side comparison of the used stamps he purchases on ebay without the overprint, and the lots he sells after the overprint fairy has paid him a visit and see it is the same stamp. He claims that no one can "prove" that he personally applied the fake overprints. This is true. But, obviously, he knows who did; he "caused" the overprints to be placed there (in a legal sense) because he knows who did and delivered the unoverprint stamps to the overprinter. This could be proven beyond a reaonable doubt in any court of law, just by the side by side comparisons of the stamps. Yet, he adamently refuses to tell his customers that he is the one who is commissioning the fake overprints or causing the fake overprints to be applied. Even though he might not personally put the fake overprints on the stamp, he is legally responsible for the fake overprints appearing on the stamps he sells.

He reminds me of too many criminal clients. Criminals are masters at parsing the facts/ editing the facts to make it seem like they are innocent victims or are not in fact legally responsible. Example one: A client beat and caused serious injury to a person. That person was later removed from life support, over the objections of my client, and he died. My client adamently insists he did not "kill" him, the doctor who removed him from life support killed him; therefore, why oh why can he be convicted of murder. It just isn't fair!! He did not kill anyone. Example two: Another client entered into a conspiracy with two others to rob a cab driver. The plan was to rob only, no weapons. Completely unknown to my client, and in complete violation of the "plan," one of his buddies had a firearm. During the robbery, this other man shot and wounded the cab driver who later died. My client insists that his is guilty of robbery only, not murder. It just isn't fair!! He did not shoot anybody, and no body can prove he did!

September 27, 2003 04:02 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a picture postcard from Montenegro to Germany in 1906. Royalty reviews the Troops!

Anne,
Amen!!
Bold intentional!
 

September 27, 2003 Anne <abt1950 at the big slow .com>

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of apples and honey, and finally figuring out how to detect a reperf. Anne

September 27, 2003 Roger Heath

Ebay test auction.
Busy day, but saw this. Long time no see! I ownder what they are testing, other than the small image created by Ebay pics! );>)

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2953965467&category=40388

Roger

September 26, 2003 Jerry K

I know what you mean about Nutmeg.They pulled the same stunt on me!

September 26, 2003 John@Magnolia Stamps

Jacks Comments
I thought it was funny the way he commented about Levitt.I allways held them in high regards,untill this past winter when I drove 150 miles out of the way to show him some stamps that I had for sale.Even though I cursed them for 2 days,I had something to laugh about for the rest of the year, I had $27.000 in c.v.all pre 1900 nutmegs big offer $400.00 I guess they figured that since I drove all the way up there I needed the money,I sold 2 stamps out of the book later in the week for over $2.000 So I can understand why he would not trust a childs w.w. collection to him...

September 26, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Talk about a hopefull Seller! And if this one even gets a bid!I'm going to contavt the bidder and make him an offer that he can't refuse,or this one

September 26, 2003 2130 Clark (reperf)

Second Bureau Coils
Time to work on the "collection" again. These are some pre-eBay acquisitions ("Gee, officer, someone dropped them into my shopping bag") of the type found under the flaps of boxes and under junk lots. Real rear of the book material. But for those with more expensive tastes, consider this unused "coil pair". An instant rarity like this one doesn't come along every day (one hopes). Worth the entire 2 cents.

September 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Nick

I have absolutely no control over what people write on this board.
Amazing as it may seem, free speech, or free writing, is not prohibited by American law where it does not surpass the realms of breaking the restrictions imposed upon it by decency, whether those laws go back to the seven main phases of the EEOC that I reffered to earlier.
Namely, it bears upon the color, race, national origin, gender, age, disability or religion of the respondant.
None of which I have alluded to, in my comments on your auctions.
Neither have I contacted the buyers of your auctions.
I have implied that your auctions are selling material which is not what they purport themselves to be.
Your replies have given me no reason to change my mind.
Unless you change the auction descriptions or the physical make-up of the stamps, I see no reason to change my opinions.
I do not care if you personally do not make the overprints.
The fact that you apparently buy unoverprinted stamps which miracuously appear overprinted within a short time, testifies to your complicity in an unethical ( or perhaps sometimes illegal ) activity.
You have perhaps, singlehandely managed to make GB official stamps worthless in the eyes of the non-expert collecting public.
I hope your ill-gotten gains enable you to collect those stamps which deception would otherwise not have put within your grasp.

September 26, 2003 Jack <jack(at)stampxxx.com>

Go ahead, censor me...
Bill Weiss, there are plenty of people on the internet like Anthony's. Those dealers view Ebay as a dumping ground, or a place to "overdescribe" their goods. I use the term "overdescribe" generously compared to what many of them actually do. They would never pull that stunt face-to-face, or in a "philatelic" venue for fear of action. Of course, they can readily hide behind their "return policy". If Ebay were to seriously participate in philately, they would add a "number of returns" to the feedback page.

Anthony's has a LONG history with hyping stamps on Ebay, most of us
wouldn't bother to bid with them, but they get the occasional newbie
bid that keeps their listings going.

Just as I would not trust Levitt with even a child's worldwide collection, I wouldn't trust Anthony's with a duplicate list of what
is offered from the KC "cave". Plus, the S&H is ridiculous!

Amazingly, even people that rival or exceed DO's sins are STILL not
only on Ebay, but in the business!

September 26, 2003 9:08 pm Jim "jaywild"

September 26, 2003 Rich <rich@icontech.com>

Lotus
Nick....I just searched the board and the only time imbeciles, bottom feeders,and idiots were mentioned was when you wrote it. If you don't believe me ,just hit "ctrl F".Apparently you feel like everyone is picking on you.
Rich

September 26, 2003 Bill Weiss

10c 1851 Stamps
BLUE RABBIT (What kind of name is "blue rabbit"?); The first stamp is a type II (Scott #14) and the second is a type I (Scott #13). It is annoying to me to see such experienced sellers as Anthony's misdescribing stamps like this and if I had more time would do something about it, but as I'm getting close to my own auction, I can't.
Here is a tip about the US 10c type II (#14), it virtually ALWAYS has that small dot you can clearly see in the top left directly over the oval around the numeral "X". Once you see that spot of color, you can be sure 99% of the time that the stamp is #14.

What's even more annoying about Anthony's misdescription is the fact that anyone can plainly see that the lower right shell is not complete at the bottom, therefore it can NOT be a type I (#13). Anthony has been in this business for as long as me (over 30 years) and so should know better. If I have time I still may try to help the buyer if it gets sold.

September 26, 2003 Mauro Mowszowicz <salesATurured.com>

Italian roman states
Paolo B, that's a nice example of a "testa di ca**" bidder, if you know what i mean =)

Regards
Mauro

September 26, 2003 7:45 PM Blue Rabbit

Type I Scott Number 13
Second time today? Is this really a #13? For comparison shoppers, check out this gem #13. Any expert opinions?

September 26, 2003 03:38 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Morality and Integrity
JWS--Please refrain from insinuating that I make my own overprints, you have no proof and certainly no admission from me, and never will have. I gave you all the opportunity to question me further, but you declined my offer, I wonder why?

I even gave you the opportunity to stop me selling on ebay, but once again you declined my offer, once again I wonder why.

You have people on this board in breach ebay rules and regulations interfering with my auctions, but you refuse to comment, I wonder why.

You have people on this board giving tips on how to make forgeries, you refuse to censor them, I wonder why?

You will never be able to beat the nefarious sellers of ebay unless you are prepared to hang out your own dirty washing and come clean, but that will never happen because you will always own censorship when the going gets too uncomfortable for you. Or you can always fall back on ignorance.

There is nothing like open debate to get to the bottom of listing problems, but that does not appear to be your style on this board. Acuse, make a witty comment, get a witty slap on the back from your brethren, and then retreat fast and slip into obscurity for the time being, much more your style.

Dave F-- I thought your new rules forbade the use of personal attacks, yet calling people imbeciles, bottom feeders, idiots and the like is to be allowed by your exclusive network of "experts", is that right.

Bet this one gets deleted!

Nick

September 26, 2003 nomad55

Lines
The Huck press stamps also show inking lines between stamps. These lines occur both on coil and sheet stamps, are very scarce on the 6 and 8 cent flag coils, but are NOT considered to be line pairs. I only have the 6-cent coil pair with 1/2 of a line, and an 8-cent with a full line.

Lines are much more common on the 10 cent crossed flags - I have a nice block of 8 (2 across by 4 down) with a thick blue line bisecting the perforations.

September 26, 2003 Bill Weiss

Hadleigh
JIM; I noticed the address immediately, but I don't think there's any connection, simply because I am told that DO is now living in NYC.

September 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

OK
rampart should have been written rampant.

September 26, 2003 6:35 pm Jim "jaywild"

Hadleigh
Twins separated at birth?

Check out the similarities in the addresses…

Dana Okey
546 Stevens Avenue
Solana Beach CA 92075

Hadleigh Enterprises
777 Pacific Coast Hwy Suite 112
Solana Beach CA 92075

Hmmm? Here’s a map showing where they are located to each other.

Thanks Bill Weiss for your take on that 1c Franklin.

Jim
 

September 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Hopefully coherent after visit to friday afternoon watering hole.

David A
Don't give up entirely on overprints just because one seller wants to make his own.
The british agencies are a good collecting area, either mint as I do them or used like matthew in Czechoslovakia.
There are very few forgeries in this area of collecting.
It is not hard to obtain reference copies.

However, in those areas where fake overprints are rampart,
obtaining genuinely overprinted copies may require the assistance of an expert and consequently extra money for expertization.
Obviously, the ideal solution is to obtain information from people that have "done it" in the past and are knowledgeable.
Particularly if it doesn't cost you anything.

If a link to an image can establish the authenticity, or otherwise, of an item, in the time it takes the board to roll-over, stamp collecting has come a long way from the era when an "ignorant" (a term I'd use to describe someone who bought everything that took their fancy, rather than someone with a basic knowledge) collector paid top dollar (or pounds) for everything.
Not all authenticity can be established by a single image.

The less than ethical seller may illustrate their wares by a sample illustration (if they even have one) that is out of focus, too small, or conveniently cancelled on those areas of a stamp that might afford a correct identification.

Sorry for long post.

Hadleigh,
I guess my emails did not receive the news of your departure from eBay.
Probably because I never bought anything from you.
I have no idea why!
 

September 26, 2003 1815 Clark (reperf)

Lines
Guidelines were used on flat plate printings for perforation. On ordinary 400 subject plates, the guidelines were more or less cut off when the sheet was divided into 100 subject panes. On the other hand, many First Bureau issues and Trans Mississippi issues were printed on 200 and 100 subject plates respectively, leaving the horizontal guideline in the middle of the 100 or 50 subject pane. Some booklet panes from 180 subject plates, imperforate 400 subject plates and flat plate coil line pairs. There were also additional marginal markings on bi-color flat plate printings to help insure proper registration for the second color and to prevent mishaps like the C3a invert.

The coil line pair on rotary press coils is from ink accumulating in the joint line between the two plates wrapped around the rotary press cylinder. Sometimes the alignment is not perfect and the stamps to the left and right of the joint line will not be well aligned. The cut edges of flat plate panes were replaced with gutters between the panes. Each 400 subject pane had a line in the gutter separating them which can sometimes be seen on the edge of a plate block. Some early stamps (like 542) had small bars in the margin. The bars in the margin and the checkerboard in the gutter were developed in the 1930s for use with Electric Eye perforating equipment.

September 26, 2003 Brian R

Bill W Good point!
JohnGood point!

September 26, 2003 Bill Weiss

JOHN; Go back and tell that seller that he must be blind if he thinks the side ornaments are complete. They are not. That stamp is a typical #24, Type V, and how he can argue otherwise is amazing.

BRIAN R; You have surely heard the old expression "You can't pick your relatives"? Well, this is true also about competetive businesses. I seriously doubt that such firms as Siegel or Shreves would give a second thought to who is listed next to them on an info page.

September 26, 2003 02:00 BST Dave Arthur

Lines
Thanks to everybody for their help on this subject - most educational - never too old to learn. However, I need my beauty sleep - or so my old lady tells me (every day!) - so I must away to bed. I will pick up any more comments on this subject when I log on tomorrow (I mean later today!!!)

Goodnight all

September 26, 2003 John

John

September 26, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 26, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 26, 2003 Brian R

I've always been under the impression, that those lines, are a simple byproduct of the method. Namely, that is the point where the rotary plate "locks down" around the cylinder. The lines are just a result of ink build up there. Thus, every coil line pair, is the first and last image on the plate.

September 26, 2003 john@MagnoliaStamps

Myself I have one just like it I would love to sell at 1/3 of that price!!!!!!john
 

September 26, 2003 Dave Arthur

Shill Bidding
Just a thought, matching a previous comment with that made by Paolo, I assume if biding is private, you would never be able to tell if shill bidding was going on!

 

September 26, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 26, 2003 Paolo B.

After a short reflection preceded by erudite checking, I think that Ebay could well be the particularistic arena, so variable and impredictable as craziness is, the crucible, in which the revelation of one's imbecillity gets manifested at its best, albeit, sometimes, this being covered by private bids, like in this present case.

Paolo

September 26, 2003 Brian R

The thread about the shill bidding, was an eye opener for me though. My only point is that his stuff (like the link above), often is listed along side places like, Shreves and Siegel. One would think there should be a little outrage, from some of the big houses, about possible guilt by association.

September 26, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 26, 2003 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

September 26, 2003 Dave Arthur

Lines
Thanks Jim G,
I was hoping you would come on as I knew you would help clarify.. A whole new collecting theme (boy is my bank manager going to be impressed .. not)!

Love your online album by the way - very educational for me as I am only really a "definitive" collector.

September 26, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 26, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 26, 2003 Dave Arthur

Lines
Seem to have lost a line of my reply,
Second part was addressed to Jim (Jaywild) bloody html

Bill,
I have examples on coils produced in the 1980's

September 26, 2003 01:20 BST Dave Arthur

Thanks for that - I definitely won't be throwing these away then! The second example is nearer to those that I seem to have rather than the totally imperf first example - nice stamp tho.
It is on the coils that I have accumulated that I have noticed this occurring quite regularly and I was curious as to value/no value.

September 26, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Sorry Dave

I did that I see the typo.

Dunc

September 26, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

September 26, 2003 Bill Dempwolf <bdempwolf@austin.rr.com>

Bill

September 26, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Kibbles and Bits
Summer gum and winter gum

There was an article in Linns recently (within the last couple years anyway) about a postal history item that at least confirmed in writing that summer gum and winter gum existed. Don't remember the details though, perhaps it was on the packaging for a delivery of stamps.

Brian

Yeah you noticed that Lotus is playing the blame game again, eh? I take that as a good sign. It means he has a conscience, which forces him to rationalize his actions, he has to justify in his own mind what he is doing. You know I like to joke around, but I'm dead serious about that. So to Lotus, stop and listen... really listen to your conscience, in your heart you know what is right.

"Search" function

Y'all know that you can search for keywords on this board, right? Hit "Ctrl" plus "F" and type in... well, for example type in "Jim G" to find a recent post by Jim Griffith. Hey, and then when you've done that, use the link after his name to see the new 2003 pages he has added to his online album.

Dunc

"How can you tell the kibbles from the bits?"

September 26, 2003 Bill Weiss

Various
JIM; Dick Celler is the resident expert on these stamps, but my gut reaction to your link is that , between the broken framelines at top and bottom plus incomplete side ornaments, it can't be anything other than a #24. The only other possibility is that it's a type III (#8) with worn side ornaments, which I did not believe is possible. Let's see what Dick says.

BRIAN R; I must admit that, while I had seen a few eBay listings for this Hadleigh Stamps, I had no idea he was a public auction firm? Is he? But even if he IS a public auction firm, I don't know what can be done to remove him from advertising that fact, through Droege, or wherever. Assuming he is NOT an APS or ASDA member, the only way to stop a crook from running a business is for customers to get wise. Back in the 1950s-60s honest auctioneers had to run sales up against John Fox, of the infamous "Fox Fakes" fame, who actually had terms in his sales which did not allow for expertizing. What could be done to stop him? Other auctions (or auctioneers) go bankrupt and in the process screw lots of people out of money, but they have a habit and ability to show up in other places. Ed Hyers (American Philatelic Brokers) in Florida went belly up and then evolved into an antique Toy dealer, than an antique store. Bob Kaufman went belly up, then evolved into an antique dealer. There are plenty of others too. The law protects and allows them to resurface, and sometimes they are able to fool most of the people in the "new" crowd, but there are always oldtimers who remember and know the truth.

September 26, 2003 01:00 BST Dave Arthur <dave@davesgame.com>

Guide Lines
Thanks Bill,

Due to the changes in printing processes - is there a cut off whereby these no longer appear after a certain year - or do they still manufacture the same way and therefore I am as likely to find thme on a 2003 stamp as an 1880 issue?

September 26, 2003 Brian R

Dave A
Straight edges on US issues, also naturally occur on those denominations, that were available in booklet panes. The bottom two stamps, of each pane, would have two edges imperforate.

September 26, 2003 5:08 pm Jim "jaywild"

September 26, 2003 5:05 pm Jim "jaywild"

Each sheet of 100 also had guide lines running through the middle vertically and horizontally, to make it easier for clerks to divide the sheets evenly. Although stamps with these guide lines showing are much scarcer than those with them, the current preference is for stamps that do not show the lines. This does not apply to pairs of stamps, coils especially, which show these guide lines. Those go for a sometimes substantial premium. Here is an example of a perforated stamp with a guide line, at left.
 

September 26, 2003 Bill Dempwolf <bdempwolf@austin.rr.com>

Bill

September 26, 2003 00:52 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Your friendly resident forger
Brian R--Love my new title, but once again you do me an injustice, I have never ever forged anything in my life, and that includes stamps.

I tell a lie. The other day someone posted a lesson in the art of forging overprints by using a scanner and a normal every-day printer. Out of boredom I followed his instructions and was terribly disappointed.

First I thought his posting was most irresponsible, actually giving tips on how to forge overprints, exactly what you are trying to stop, and yet his posting was not deleted.

Anyway I scanned an overprint from the GB concise and found the following:

Even after you reduce or increase the size of the overprint, SG has tampered with the scale in order to foil this and it does not look right.

After scanning on a very good scanner and printing on an inkjet or officejet, the overprint edges are very, very smudged or have significant runs in them.

After scanning and printing on a laser printer, the overprint can be soaked off or rubbed off with a fingernail.

Please tell me what I am doing wrong as I could increase my profit tenfold if I really could run these off myself.

Theres a drink in it for you.

Nick

September 26, 2003 00:45 BST Dave Arthur <dave@davesgame.com>

Lines
I will add one point to the fake officials, I have been put off totally collecting them now and if I ever go back it will only be in "live" auctions where I can check them out first. It's a shame really because before this blew up I was ( I thought) developing quite a nice little collection. By the way, thanks DB, for the list of issuong postmarks - that will help me narrow it down some more.

Anyway, why I really posted - As a relative newbie to US stamps, can somebody explain (or point me to an explanation on the net) of US stamps that have a line on one side (left - seem to be mostly left on my examples - or right!).What is the reason for these and do catalogues quote them, I can't find antything in my SG Part 22? Is this the equivalent of "part-imperf" as we Brits call it? Is there any point in collecting these examples as well as the normal 4 sided perfed issue.

September 26, 2003 Brian R

Alison Definately good news for ebayer's about Hadleigh. I say ebayer's, because a few of the less than ethical sellers on your list, have simply moved on to Yahoo. Kind of like how the mess your dogs leaves, squishes out somewhere else, when you stomp on it. As a full time dealer (I assume you are), maybe you (or others) can tell me why his traditional auctions are tolerated, by others in the philatelic world? If I was an auctioneer, I'd be livid, about his notices being listed next to mine, at places like the Droege site.

September 26, 2003 4:28 pm Jim "jaywild"

September 26, 2003 00:15 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Dialogue
David B--Not your best, not your best by a long chalk. Tell you what, I will open the bidding by answering the first question I am asked with a 100% truthfull answer on my sales. You only get the one though, I dont want to spoil you.

Mind you, just a reminder, I have never told a lie to this board to date (prove me wrong and I will never sell again on ebay). Maybe that is why I object so to being branded one.

Nick

September 26, 2003 David Benson

Nick (off),

you commented,

By the way, I own some very nice (limited edition) prints of some great works of modern art,

did you buy these as prints or were they bought on Ebay as " these may be forgeries or prints "

David B.

September 26, 2003 23:39 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Penny not quite dropped yet!
Dave P, Dave B & the rest of the gang--For intelligent and well educated (of that I have no doubt) people, you really do fall short when it comes to grasping reality. I fully support everything you say about fakes, forgeries, altered and misdescribed stamps (or any other collected item for that matter), but my objection is and always will be the way you go about your business.

If you really believe your arrogant, insulting, underhand and bullish methods will have any influence on people like me, you are so very much mistaken. All you do is get our backs up, and make us more determined to follow the path of non-conformity, not to harm the hobby, but to teach you a lesson.

There have been times over the past weeks when one or two of your number has appealed to me to carry out certain changes in the way I sell. If you re-read some of the past posts you will see that I have just about agreed to your appeals and requests (to stamp the rear of my stamps "fakes" etc), and then another of your bespoken number (3 in fact) have carried out underhand (and probably illegal) methods and practices (along with very well worded insults and misguided accusations) that have me think "to hell with them".

Now if we all agree that I am now a lost cause, what about your attempts to clean up ebay over the past week or so. No real success there, all you have done is upset some genuine sellers who have probably (and I am one of those people who tend to give everyone the benifit of the doubt, at least once anyway) just made an error, and instead of a little guidance and advice (of which you are all more than capable), you still feel you have made progress in keeping philately "pure" by scoring points against these people by rejoicing in "busting another dishonest cad" and exposing another crook.

You will find that my "type" are gaining more support as each day goes by, not in what I sell or how I deal, but because there are a great number of people out there who will not be dictated to by the likes of you.

By the way, I own some very nice (limited edition) prints of some great works of modern art, would you really have those prints (copies and forged images) destroyed, so that only the very select few and not the masses can enjoy these endevours, or is that not a very good or fair analogy?

Nick I (lotus194)
 

September 26, 2003 David Benson

Jim, there is no correct spelling, it isn't an English word. I checked Google, with an A is about 15 more.

David B.

September 26, 2003 Bill Weiss

Various
Good evening! I see several have uncovered some spurious listings. The #16 (really #35) from Anthony's suprises me a little bit, as they surely know better. The #21 (really a #24) is a shame. Is anyone going to notify the sellers?

CLARK; I seem to recall something too about "winter" and "summer" gum, but don't know where to reference it. Regarding the line on early rotary press stamps, yes, I believe they were there from the get-go starting with Scott #448. Regarding detecting regums, you are doing exactly the correct and most accurate thing in checking the perf tips with a good glass. I use 15X for expertizing but I know folks who prefer less. You are looking, of course, for paper fibers sticking out from the perf tips being filled with gum, which is impossible on a stamp torn from a sheet. Modern crooks however, sometimes file the perf tips to restore the paper fibers sticking out (I should say "replace" the paper fibers by filing). These can be detected because usually the filing marks go up and down the perf tips at exactly the same depth, which would also be impossible if a stamp is torn from a sheet. By examination with a good glass, you can detect 95% of all regums IMO. The most difficult to detect are when a large block is regummed and then singles are torn from the block. Those singles, of course, will have natural-looking paper fibers on the perf tips. That's where knowing what the OG should look like comes in handy.

September 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

David

BTW since it is already the 27th in Australia, happy Rosh Hashanah.
And to everyone else who are so disposed.
However, in my American dictionary a Minyan is the correct spelling.

I think, in the future, when people realize that the overprinted seahorses make good "reference material" for distinguishing the various printings, their prices will rise.

September 26, 2003 David Benson

Jim, it's the postmarks unless they were mint. Even though the number issued is lower there is more demand for the unoverprinted. He would also have trouble making a convincing overprint.

Addie ruined the Specimen overprints sales on Ebay as now every one is suspect. The Lotus Leaf (using Australian or Cockney meaning) ruined British Officials and Channel Island German Occupation overprints. It should have been up to Ebay (and the APS) to boot these crooks out.

David B.

David B.

September 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Speaking of overprints, David's,
I wonder why he doesn't try things like Morocco Agencies.
Does one get the impression that it may be because the unoverprinted stamp is catalogued at a higher value than the overprint?

September 26, 2003 David Benson

Jim, he just overprints his 100 Pounds with $20,000, he thinks a sucker will come along and pay that for it. He may as well try to sell it on Ebay, someone may pay 200 Pounds for it.

David B.

September 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Nick
If you ever visit the US and think £100 is equivalent to $20,000, you have a big shock in store.

September 26, 2003 Dave P

lotus Every day stamp buyers on Ebay are being fleeced out of thousands of dollars by sellers with misidentified forgeries, altered and repaired stamps, shill bidding and other underhand practices. Are you saying you condone that? I am surprised, I had you down as misguided rather than a crook. Would you feel the same about a seller who sold you a rip-off as a designer name, or an electrical apparatus that blew up when you tried to use it, or simply took your money and ran? For the record, I have no quibble with anyone selling forgeries, providing they are accurately decribed as such. You still have not answered the question as to why you don't describe your lots as modern forgeries, which would be a truly accurate description.

September 26, 2003 John

Thanks Richard F. I too thought that it had a removed cancel.I don't know much about this guy,other than he lives about 150 miles away and will more than likely end up with the stock from Hoover Stamp Co,which had a fire in Aug.Chuck said something about a guy named David,So I figure its going to be this one..

September 26, 2003 22:00 Nick I (lotus194) <nicholas.izzard@ntlworld.com>

Gloating
Alison R-I will wager you that you will never add my name to the list you keep of people you have bullied off of ebay. I notice that some of my stamps are making more money second time around. I'm telling you, get yourself a few lotus to tuck away, they are gaining value by the minute! Did anyone notice (of course you did) that a set of swastikas made almost £100 (thats about $20,000 isnt it, or $80,000 Aussie Dollars).

I notice you are managing to upset more genuine dealers who made honest mistakes with your nasty methods, have had a few emails this week from sellers who really, really do not like you lot. I of course gave them my support and best wishes, just like you would expect.

Nick (lotus194)

September 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Just spent the last two hours reading the 180 html page Equal Employment Opportunity training.
I guess that's what happens when you become a litigious society.
Thankfully that's over with for another two years.

September 26, 2003 Mark Bardell

Why does that work Dave ?





;o)

September 26, 2003 Richard Frajola

#21?
Looks like a pen cancel removed #24 from here.

September 26, 2003 13:36 Dave F. (moderator)

font color
Here's what I've learned from my own posts in the past about font colors:

If you assign a font color with html, then at the end of your message you need to also use a "close-font" tag: 'bracket /font bracket'. (Excuse the convolutions to get the command sequence to show up instead of execute.)

That command takes care of the cascading spill-over problem onto posts below that one. (Please don't ask my why this works.)

September 26, 2003 John@ Magnolia Stamps

what is it
Ok guys and gals,here is another good one.Could it be a M.N.H.#21.look here

September 26, 2003 John

In case you forgot. this lot By the wat none of his stamps sold....

September 26, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

John

September 26, 2003 Dave P

I think it is kind of pretty :)

September 26, 2003 Jim "jaywild"

Why did the board turn all red when I posted my last message? Was it something I did? If so, please delete the message...
 

September 26, 2003 12:55 pm Jim 'jaywild'

Jim L.