StampChat Archives

Archive:  November 16 - 30, 2003

• Last updated:  20 March 2004

November 30, 2003 David Benson

KL, had a look at the comment when it was made and it was inferred by me that is how that particular stamp would be expertised. Like I said at the time it should only be expertised by a group who handles British Commonwealth Blued paper variations of that period. There are so many fakes of Blued paper that it is imperative that examples be compared.

David B.

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

David B

I agree you expressed the opinion that U.S. certificates are not accepted on foreign material. I disagree with you and others on this point, but it did not offend me. Some of your argumentation reflected a narrow view that is easily refuted (German auctions that offer stamps signed by Bohne, for example), but again, this does little harm, and is easily passed over without rebuttal.

However, on August 22, you (or some other person who signed your name to the post) also wrote: "Yes, IMO the APS just does a superficial job and just looks at the stamp and a catalogue and the person making the decision does not have the background to know the intracacies of the material submitted. It has nothing to do with any political bias or any bias whatsoever, it is just a matter of fact that they have made so many mistakes that their certicates are taken as a grain of salt."

That is what caused my blood to boil, and it is what prompted Bill Weiss to implore me to reply. I remained reluctant, and instead I sent him examples of our experts on foreign material for several difficult countries, all of whom are champion exhibitors and honored scholars with extensive reference collections. For some countries our experts are regarded as the world's best by the collectors in those countries; some have the finest extant collections and exhibits of those countries' material; some are immigrants from those countries. No APS expert does what you wrote, and no one who does that would be allowed to join on our committee. All are taught to decline an opinion if they are unable to express a thorougly competent opinion. Many submissions are returned to their owners with a refund, because the APS expert committee cannot certify their stamps.

I have no quarrel with anyone who prefers another expert certificate over ours. Any reputable expert opinion that gives the buyer confidence ought to be legitimate.

But you attempted to discredit a specific APS opinion: "Chuck, the certificate is absolutely useless. Anyone can change the color of the paper to a bluish tinge and it is often done. It is the consistency of the bluing that only an expert can tell that has seen plenty of the genuine paper and has comparisons. I would doubt very much if anyone in the US has any to compare them with. Like I said they most probably saw some bluish tinge in the paper, perused a catalog and presto, genuine although it is highly unlikely."

With respect to the APS/eBay agreement, I welcome evidence from every interested party on the extent to which our goals are being met, or are failing to be met. That's the only way those of us who have no dog in the fight will be able to vote sensibly on how to proceed.

During the past week, I have received several anguished e-mails from disgruntled eBay watchers who implored me to take action after they thought their complaints had been ignored. In each instance, by the time I logged on to eBay, the challenged lot had been withdrawn.

Dave F should take note that I probably would not be receiving these notes if the people writing them took offense at my posts here in spirited support of what APS is trying to do with eBay.

So my personal perception is that the agreement is working well, on admittedly scanty but strongly suggestive evidence. If other evidence supports an opposite evaluation, I want to see it, and so will other members of the APS Board. None of us would vote to commit scarce resources to a program that doesn't work.

November 30, 2003 Anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of Bob Lamb's ebay workshop tomorrow, the renewed health of Jim's computer, and a moratorium on personality conflicts on the board.

November 30, 2003 Chris

Czecho mystery object
I have given up trying to find this one.
It is a black definitive sized stamp of 60h.
The background is a midaeval appearing bridge with a castle above it.
The foreground is a hand holding a rod with a snake wound around it.
At the top is says "ceskoslovensko". At the left it says "sto let casopisu lekaru ceskych".
At the bottom it says "sto let spolku ceskych lekaru v praze 1862-1962".
It isn't a semi-postal or airpost and I can't find it in the regular postage.

Chris - now my ears are bugging me

November 30, 2003 David Benson

KL,

whilst you are mentioning my negativity regarding the APS/Ebay relatinship I still believe it will work well if they cancel listings on questionable material especially if the seller has confirmed that the material is genuine.

I still haven't noted any forgeries with any indelible ink handstamps and there have been plenty of computer made replicas for sale which weren't delisted even though complaints were made to Ebay. You said yourself that they are not allowed so I presume it will be OK if I send you a note of the next one I see as sending them to Ebay to be forwarded to the SWC is not very fruitful,

David B.
 

November 30, 2003 Chris

Cryptic
Dave F. This board is a great resource and you are to be commended for
running it.

Chris - still cataloging Czecho

November 30, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the Day 33


Todays cancels of the day:

South Africa (Hartbeesfontein, 9/3/1967)

United States of America (Everett, WA 982, 10/11/1999). Two rows of letters above date – PM (probably indicates afternoon cancellation) by cancellation device 3B.

United States of America (New York, NY, 4/4/1946, 830 PM)

Ireland, triangular cancel with the letters TJR. What is the P O name?


I am still hoping someone can tell me a bit more about the SE cancel on piece on yesterday’s COD.
 

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Bill and K.L.

I am not singling out the US, a lot of collectors only want certificates for specialised items from that country, whether it be France, Germany, Italy, Holland, B.C, whatever, any other certificates are held in low regard. I am sorry if both of you consider this an affront but how would any US specialist consider a French, Italian or German certificate for a highly specialised item.

David Benson

November 30, 2003 paul laniosz

KEN L. ----Hope your getting better and back to full strengh , missed you at the chicagopex show ,i plan to drive out to the gregg manning auction next week ,any plans to being there ?....paul

November 30, 2003 Frank

learning from one another
Here's some great student test answers:
Following are a sampling of test answers and essays submitted
to science and health teachers by junior high, high school
and college students around the world.
>
> 1. Water is composed of two gins, Oxygin and Hydrogin.
> Oxygin is pure gin. Hydrogin is gin and water.
>
> 2. Artificial insemination is when the farmer does it to
> the cow instead of the bull.
>
> 3. The body consists of three parts- the brainium, the
> borax and the abominable cavity. The brainium contains the
> brain, the borax contains the heart and lungs, and the
> abominable cavity contains the bowels, of which there are
> five - a, e, i, o, and u.
>
> 4. To prevent contraception: wear a condominium.
>
> 5. For drowning: Climb on top of the person and move up and
> down to make artificial perspiration.
>
> 6. Before giving a blood transfusion, find out if the
> blood is affirmative or negative.
>
> 7. Genetics explain why you look like your father and if
> you don't why you should.
>
> 8. Gonorrhea is diarrhea that has gone away.
>

 

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Ken, like I just said to Bill, I did not trash APS certificates, I made a general comment about ALL US CERTICATES for BRITISH COMMONWEALTH and certain EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. I am not trashing APS certificates for any material I am just mentioning a fact. Just for your interest I was at a meeting the other day and a member mentioned to me that he had just bought an item in the US and was sending it to London for a certificate. He mentioned that it had a US certificate (not APS). he stated that everything stated in the certificate was wrong, wrong number and they had missed the important aspect of the item.

David Benson

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Paul, sorry, all fiscal cancels,

David B.

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

Last Notes

Paul L: I apologize. I missed your post about Bob Lamb, and I thank you for it.

David B: As you can tell from Bill Weiss's post immediately following yours, and Chuck Harm's carefully balanced post earlier, I'm not the only one who has this perception of you. Not only that, but so do members of the APS leadership who have commented to me directly after reading your postings here, and who have stayed away to avoid becoming victims themselves. I repeat myself, but the trashing that most irritated me concerned APS expertizing, not the APS/eBay relationship, though your negativity on that also did offend me.

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Bill., get your facts right, I haven't knocked any APS certificates, my comments were directed to ALL US certificates for British Commonwealth material as well as some other European countries. You and Ken are making out that I singled the APS, I didn't. I can't understand why both of you don't realise that they are not accepted as much as they are in the US.

p.s. If you are bringing up the old facts about you not shipping overseas that was because you were selling European material at the time and the items you were selling are in great demand in Europe. If you were only selling US material I would not have mentioned it,

David Benson


David Bnson

November 30, 2003 paul laniosz

opinion
DAVID B. ---lighten up a little . no one here views you as a basher/trasher of the APS.besides i need your opinion on these TRANSVAAL cancels ? , TRANSVAAL CANCELS.....paul

November 30, 2003 Bill Weiss

David Benson
See David, I rest my case! You made your last post at the same time I was making mine, trying to quickly deny your past anti-APS drivel. You HAVE knocked APS expert certificates versus foreign expertizing. You HAVE knocked APS in other ways as well.

I would defend to the death your RIGHT to knock all you wish, but then why not be big enough to just admit it, defend it, and move on?

November 30, 2003 Bill Weiss

3c 1869 Without Grill, etc.
BRIAN R; A 3c 1869 used and withoit grill would be the 1875 re-issue with a Scott value of $22,500., but it is unlikely that you have a genuione #125 even if you can't see the grill. It's probably been pressed out and is difficult to detect. On the other hand, since I like to gamble by nature, why not consider gettting it expertized? If it's NOT a #125, you will only pay the minimum fee BUT, in the remote possibility that it turns out to be a #125, well, you can run right out and buy a new car with the proceeds!

To Ken Lawrence; I think your last post was your best yet, addressed everyone's prior posts directed at you. I'm glad you pointed out to everyone that you and I have had our share of run-ins in our past. Since I am the one who prompted you to come here, probably everyone assumes that we are "buddies"! In fact, I think we are, but it took a long time for us to gain the mutual respect we now share and I certainly appreciate that you have come here, because I really do believe that this is a worthwhile venue despite some of the anti-APS drivel that sometimes occurs. I know you well enough that you can hold your own against anyone, so please continue to visit and post.

In closing for the night, most of you know that I have rarely "taken sides", if ever, in my time on this board, but I am going to do so now.... I too have for the longest time found David Benson's attacking personality to be unfair, unchecked, agitating and annoying. Anyone who has been here for any length of time can witness it for themselves. I can well remember being a relative newcomer to this board and him attacking me after he saw in our selling rules on eBay that we didn't ship to foreign countries, and all of the explaining I attempted wouldn't shut him up, as though he had some God-given right to challange how I choose to run my business.

Given this constant attitude on his part, you should all be able to better understand how Ken must feel to read David's incessant badgering of APS. Now, please, anyone who feels the need to stand up and defend him, please be my guest. That is your right. Speak your mind - for I have now spoken mine. Good-night.

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Ken, I thoroughly object to your term APS TRASHER, I have not trashed the APS and I demand a apology from you. My only comments have been about the APS/Ebay relationship.

If I do not get one I shall be writing non stop to the APS Executive members,

David Benson

November 30, 2003 Michael Walter

Now off to bed and sweet dreams of the nice collection that I just purchased. Should be some nice show and tell that I will post here later in the week. Or at least some questions..... :o)

November 30, 2003 Frank

some enchanted evening
Sing it and sing it again- take a deeeeeep breath. Write it,read it three times and then decide if it merits posting. Then proof it and read it again. Take two asprin and go to bed. In the morning read the response posts after breakfast, and do some measured thinking about them. Write your response. Your words will be out there for a long, long time. Then again sometimes no response may be the best response.

November 30, 2003 Brian R

I wonder, if given enough pressure, can you press out a grill? I think most of the empirical effort devoted to grills, has been by the nefarious, attempting to add them. LOL

November 30, 2003 Brian R

michael
I can't say that i'd be able to ID the grey paper if I had one. The stamp is used and the paper looks just like the other 4 #114's I have.

November 30, 2003 paul laniosz

THANKS DAVID F.
as BOB HOHERTZ said, what you done is very much appreciated. thanks for not censoring anyone who really wants to make a point or state their opinion here.....paul

November 30, 2003 Michael Walter

Brian, Is your stamp on gray paper??

November 30, 2003 Michael Walter

Brian, There is a listing for #114 without grill on page 27 of my Scott Specialized. No value is given. Is your stamp mint or used?

November 30, 2003 Brian R

p.s.-- The stamp, appears to be exact to a #114 in all other respects, I don't think it is a reprint.

November 30, 2003 paul laniosz

KEN LAWRENCE
KEN , i take issue with your statement ---no one has yet posted a proper reply that does justice to Bob s work for the APS .-----last week after attending the APS town hall meeting at chicagopex . i posted a detail posting of the meeting and how Bob took most of the meeting and explained the issues of APS/E-BAY and fakes and forgeries issue . he did a execellant job and was clear to everyone and answered all questions ,and he was nice enought to offer to come on this board about it . im puzzled by your posting BOB LAMB and me at the meeting ......paul

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

Replies:

Jim G and Jim W: I am grateful for your advice. I had not looked at things from that perspective, but if I had, I’d probably have stayed away altogether, as was my instinct. This is tedious and unrewarding for me, but seemed necessary to refute so many attacks on APS that do great harm when widely circulated, far more harm than the loss of an occasional innocent good person who takes offense at the vigor of my reply, though every such loss is truly regrettable, all the more so if they could be avoided. In general I have ignored the personal taunts, though not as consistently as I should have. However, my initial perception was that the most energetic APS-trasher here was David Benson, who seemed to enjoy credibility among other participants, at least to the extent that no matter how far his accusations departed from reality, they were almost always treated as worthy of respect. That perception has only been tempered in the past two hours after his recent overdue but welcome backpedaling.

Dana K: I would say much the same to you, except that it’s difficult for anyone who feels grievously violated to respond diplomatically. Usually diplomats simply avoid commenting altogether to provocations which, as I wrote, was my original impulse. Bill Weiss argued persuasively that this is an important forum that needs to hear an APS leader’s defense of the Society’s policy, knowing the robustness of my style from past heated exchanges that had pitted us against each other. But if I continue posting here, I shall try.

Chuck H: You expressed my point of view eloquently, and you accurately described my precise impression of David B’s comments, which were not about Scott, but disparaged the APS certificate for your stamp, and were still posted today when I clicked on the archive link. Unlike yourself, I had no positive prior experience with David to offset my perception of the chip on his shoulder, while my opinion had been fortified by reading his cranky messages to various leaders of APS. No doubt my opinion was one-sided, and my initial post even more so, but that was its context. Most of all, I’m grateful that you followed up with APS to learn how your stamp was certified and who rendered the opinion.

Dave F: I am not asking for censorship, only fairness. I wrote several times that I favor robust debate. As for the old bromide, that’s exactly how I have felt, believing that readers of this list wanted facts, and discovering that the most vocal wanted only a target, twisting my statements for sport. I accept what you wrote as true, all of it. But then, why should I participate at all? I seldom buy and never sell on eBay, and don’t have time to chat about eBay. I’m sure you perform an admirable service for all those who do, and that you deserve all the accolades they bestow on you. No doubt regular participants are able to discriminate among the various posters as you say, but where does that leave those of us who drop in occasionally, or who search the archive for useful information, and whose reward is to read an unremitting denunciation of APS? Finally, one of your points is groundless. I do not condescend to those with less philatelic knowledge than mine, assuming I can perceive that to be the case. I have answered such questions as I’m able, and corrected misinformation, and shared resources, as I do in all my hobby writing. If judged by the eBay standard of positive feedback, no stamp author’s record exceeds mine.

David B: This time context is unnecessary. Emblazon my message wherever you choose. It reflects the APS policy that I am sworn to uphold as a condition of my office, and all APS members have pledged to obey. If eBay does not enforce it, the agreement is worthless, and in that case, APS should and would withdraw from the relationship.

Scott T: Trust this, I never wanted to be the APS voice here, and came on with great reluctance. I hope others will take this baton as you recommend, and am grateful for your observation.

November 30, 2003 Michael Walter

Here is a auction for you U.S. collectors to ponder. This seller claims the stamp is a #125. A scott #125 has a catalogue value of $20,000.00 in used condition. What this seller has is a #114, catalogue value: $18.0 in VF condition.
 

November 30, 2003 Marius

Poker
Bill Sorry you lost today. A member of my trivia team went to Canberra last week and came third in a national poker competition. She (yes, she) picked up about $2,500 for her efforts.
BTW are you aware of Poker Network. I play online HERE My user id is Marius55

November 30, 2003 Bill Weiss

Today's Posts
Damn, my good woman and I go away for a day to play some poker )I lost!) and all H-ll breaks loose here! I certainly have no intention of adding any fuel either way, but do think that Anne, Jim G. and Scott Trepel have just made very sensible posts that we all can agree with. I also want to encourage Dave F. to continue to believe that he is doing a GOOD thing by maintaining this chat board, and I would not ever want to see any posts be censured so long as the post is constructed in a reasonably intelligent way and does not demean anyone unfairly. If Ken, or anyone else, wants to take exception to something that's been posted, then have at it, but we don't need a censor, and knowing Ken L. as I do, I honestly believe he would quickly agree with this.......right Ken???

November 30, 2003 Scott Trepel <strepel@siegelauctions.com>

Thanksgiving...
and on this Thanksgiving weekend, I give thanks for my family's health, for the abundant food and drink, and for the good fortune to be sidelined in this recent flurry of posts.

I've been working on our December 16-18 sale catalogues and Western Expresses, as well as planning some trips and spending time at my home in the country. Thus I have only popped in a few times lately to see if I'm needed, and, thank goodness, I'm not.

The only observation I will make is that Ken Lawrence has (or wants) the position as Lonely Voice of the APS. The organization, which I joined in 1973, is large enough to offer opportunities to others to answer the criticisms made in this chat room. Rather than wage a war of personalities, perhaps others in the APS are willing to come to Ken's aid and offer comments and clarifications in an effort to engage the support of someone with the knowledge and experience of David Benson (and others). I say this because it is the APS at issue, not Ken.

Having entered this forum (and Frajola's) thru some controversial discussions, I have learned that it can be a productive way to get to the truth by distilling away the noise.

My father's side of the family used to gather at holidays, sit at the dinner table and loudly debate such issues as "Should immigrants learn English or should we have bilingual signage". Despite the heated arguments, no one left my grandmothers in anger. Stuffed, yes. Angry, no.

Just my thoughts for the evening.

November 30, 2003 Bob Hohertz

a bit more support

Dave, you seem to be handling the necessary editing of this board very well. True censorship would be something like deleting any post critical of the APS or eBay - surely not the atmosphere any of us would really want here. There will always be some who take advantage of free speech, but that's true of any facet of our society, and always has been. Please don't become discouraged. What you have done is valuable and is very much appreciated.

November 30, 2003 17:37 Dana Krueger <dkrueger at kfl dot com>

Best regards, Dana


 

November 30, 2003 17:39 Jim Watson

Not A Day to Remember
Boy, what a day! I think I finally got the virus/trojan horse/bad code corralled. The 'other' computer I'm using is working.Whew!!!

Some notes on the recent postings.

First, Ken L.,
I do hope your convalescence continues to improve. I would suggest you read the very well-composed post of Jim Griffith very carefully. He has expressed a lot of wisdom about such chat boards as these. His is a voice of experience.

Anne,
Thank you for your ever measured responses. Your civility is to your credit and appreciated by many of us.

Dave F.,
Illegitimi non carborundum! You've done a fine job with this board. None of us could have pulled it off with the equanimity you have shown. You have our support.

Chuck H.,
How wonderfully to the point. Well said! I only hope that everyone will take your words to heart.

BTW, I am a Life Member of APS and have appreciated its services and posted favorable opinions and, generally non-aggressive, support when the occasion arises.

And now, he said, let's have a tad of philately:

Today in Postal History update
I have also been keep busy correcting and updated the German inflation cover I posted earlier. I've had some excellent input, first from Bjorn Munch and then from Lars Boettger which got me into several corrections and much rewrite. If I can keep this up for another 20 years, I just may get good enough for prime time!

November 30, 2003 19:28 Eric Dyck

Now For Something Completely Different

Back to Rockall

At least they have a printing press (Caution: Those with delicate sensibilities, don't click!)a band, but apparently no flag.

Isn't Google wonderful.

Eric
 

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Chuck, thank you for your comments and I am happy that you received a positive certificate on your Indian item. However what I said was that greater credibility is given on BC items with certain British certificates than with any non British certificates.

I may have made some anti Scotts comments but that is only to do with various sellers using Scott's numbers without any description what the stamp is. I was accused of being Anti US for that but I cannot see any connection. I have made hardly any anti APS comments except comments regarding the Ebay/APS relationship and I don't think any of those were Anti US. I don't have any chip on my shoulder about the APS as I have always believed it is a fine organisation.

David B.

November 30, 2003 Chuck Harm

I suppose I might as well comment because I think it was my comment about getting an APS certificate for an Indian stamp that origianlly generated some of Dave Benson's comments. I will say the entire discussion put me off to chatting on this board that I haven't even followed it until about a week ago and this is my first post.

Let me try and avoid some of the style pitfalls that generate animosity by starting off with something positive.

I believe Dave Benson to be one of the best sellers of Commonwealth material on ebay as is seen by his auction realizations (i.e that means I've lost about 30-50 of his auctions but finally won one).I knwo that what i am bidding on is accurately described and as authentic as a highly competent dealer can assure. Also his process of serving his customers is remarkably efficient.

Nevertheless I do believe there is some kind of chip on the shoulder with regard to the APS and sometimes the US in general. Ususally I have just ignored that but in the previous discussion Dave you clearly indicated that you felt the APS did not have the expertise to handle Commonwealth stamps and that it was likely just someone looking at a catalog. I tried to understand what was the basis of the comment but got no where and in frustration just abandoned this board for about 3-4 months.
I did follow up with the APS and establish that my stamp was examined by three very credible Commonwealth experts - names even I was familiar with and who all possessed ample reference material. I am satisfied that I got an accurate expertiztion on the stamp.

In general I think we could all learn from Ann and be more positive. Also Dave F. should get nothing but paise for maintaining this forum. It seems there is a tendancy to criticize what is still not perfect rather than acknowledge that progress is being made. In my humble opinion, several of the contributors to this board - I will cite George Kopecky in particular and mamy others (not me) have accomplished an astounding turn around in ebay in abandoning thier caveat emptor approach to stamp sales and some substantial progress has been made. It looks to me that the saratoga group is gone form ebay, our "philatelic artist" friend from Florida is gone and I believe Riny is gone. Not only is this substantial progress but it also serves as a demonstration that progress is possible.

I, personally, have been cheated more at shows by dealers who I dealt with in person than on ebay and I think ebay has the potential to be a more secure marketplace due to the visibility if the transactions. When I am at a show very few people see what the dealer presenmts to me and how he or she represent it while on ebay it is visible to a wider audience. This allows substantial possibilities for monitoring repetitive cheats and eliminating them.

I think we should keep pushing both ebay and APS to improve things but at the sdame time ackowledge that progress has been made. Soem of the things I see written take the tone that APS and ebay are the enemy rather than dishonest sellers. I think we can improve that tone and be a more effective influence going forward.

Sorry for the wordiness of my submission.
 

November 30, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

November 30, 2003 Anne

Sympathies, Dave Your work is not unappreciated by most of us. The moving company has just delivered a large, comfortable asbestos lounge chair to the balcony. It has your name on it and it comes with a special remote post zapper issued only to exceptional moderators. And the bar is open too. Anne

November 30, 2003 Brian R

Ebay auction of the day ....and the award goes to this one A seller, who is SO confused, I don't even know where to start.....

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Dave F,

even though I will get a rebuttal that it was taken out of context, coould you please file KL's remark,

Only postage stamps can be sold by APS members as postage stamps, and under the new program, only postage stamps can be sold on eBay as postage stamps.


It is the most important remark that has been mentioned on the APS/Ebay relationship,

David B.
 

November 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Sheesh, this is totally irrelevant.
Thanks John.
Ken L, my second wife, when I married her, had appartment on 5th Avenue.
I have been to many shows on 57th street and at Westchester County.
My first wife was a Quaker.
From a small town near Indianapolis.
Please do not attempt to discredit my posts by implying ignorance on my part.
Though I live in west Texas, I can assure you, I am not parochial.
I do not throw verbal brickbats at people who do not deserve them.
Read into that what you may.

November 30, 2003 16:22 Dave F. (moderator)

Ken L: I am really upset with your remarks taking me to task. Instead of adding anybody's comments to the Expertising statement, I will simply remove the link before the end of the day. It is dated now, and a lot of discussion has happened since then, but I am not willing to spend the time it would take to go through weeks' worth of posts to update them, so I'll remove it instead.

I'm sorry that I don't personally refute every anti-APS post on here. To do so would, most of the time, just fan the flames of perhaps a not-well-informed post in the first place and cause even more attention to be drawn to it.

Also, for those of us who have become familiar with most regular posters, we know how much weight to give to certain posts or posters. We know, I think, how to factor out opinion and bias from philatelic knowledge, in general.

I thought my service, or contribution, to the philatelic community was to foster a place where people could ask philatelic questions of even an intermediate to advanced nature and get one or more informed replies. We can even handle a number of foreign languages quickly when people have translation needs. People can link to an active auction and ask others their opinions about the genuiness of the stamp, reasonableness of the prices, specialness of the cancellation, etc. Very few questions go unanswered, and those answers are, for the most part, and to the extent to which I am capable of assessing, reasonably accurate.

To address your particular concern, should I put a disclaimer in front of every anti-APS post? That it's one person's opinion? Well, then, shouldn't I put that in front of every post? Because it is just one person's opinion in every post.

Believe me, I did not try to create this space in order to provide safe harbor for anti-APS discussion. I like the APS. But I also don't think it's right to remove those posts either. I will hasten to add that I've learned that no matter what I do on here, it's wrong to someone. Either I delete too many posts or don't delete enough of them; I'm too tolerant of anonymous posts or too uptight about them. There's only talk about US stamps. There's only talk about foreign stamps. If I had the time, it would be amusing to put together a page of these seemingly contradictory posts to show how widely varied people's perceptions are about the same body of material.

However, I must say that I am genuinely hurt and offended that you think that I don't edit with a heavy enough hand and am therefore anti-APS. I would daresay that your sometimes highly offensive and condescending attitude towards the people on here, or towards those who are not as philatelically knowledgeable as you, has done as much, if not more harm, to the APS, because your voice does carry more weight than the average contributor. When I was soliciting membership information, I had three people email me who had either resigned their membership or had decided not to renew, specifically because of your behavior on here, which was their first exposure to someone from the organization. I winced when I read those emails, because I think those people are doing themselves a disservice. But even though you said at the beginning that you just represented yourself on here, it is naive to think that you don't also represent the organization at least indirectly at the same time, especially when you comment on APS issues, and even use the APS reference in your email address. You do represent them, and, as I said before, I have never encountered the unpleasant, rude treatment from any other APS staff member or official that I have from you. Fortunately, those positive experiences can outweigh these negative ones for me, but, for many readers of this board, you're as close to the top of APS as they're likely to experience. I've been stunned from the very beginning that you don't recognize the "ambassadorship" of your role. I think your behavior has, correctly or not, had a greater impact on people's impressions of the APS than any of the anti-APS remarks that others have made here.

- - - - -


Still smoldering, I can't help but think of that old bromide, "no good deed goes unpunished".

November 30, 2003 David Benson

KL,

thank you for your reply and I have noted your comment about computer prints. As I have been actively reporting these to Ebay for years and when I see some more listed I will report them to Ebay to forward to the SWC,

David B.

November 30, 2003 Tom Mazza

Ken Maybe Bellefonte, certainly not Manhattan.

tcm

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

David Benson

The composition of the watch group is not public, and it's regrettable that certain members have violated that policy, which invites circumvention of the agreed procedure and perhaps worse abuses. Nevertheless, I believe one watch group member's exhibits of British Commonwealth material have achieved gold and large gold medals in FIP competition so I'd guess the review process should work pretty well.

Having experienced your ability to restate my views in ways that do not reflect my actual opinions and written statements, I'm reluctant to accept your report of Charlie Peterson's remark, but he is my good friend and we are both APRL Trustees (he is APRL President and was an APS vice president), so I shall call him for clarification when I'm better. You probably know that Charlie recommended me as his successor on the FIP Literature Commission, where I served until September, and mentored my apprenticeship as an FIP judge in 1996.

In any event, the fact is that APS does not ban such dealers, but does require that all their material be fully and accurately described anywhere they sell it, not just at APS shows. That is our self-regulating system. (Among our most respected dealers are Bonnie and Roger Riga who sell exclusively cinderella material, including fantasy and bogus issues of every country and era.) Failing a complete and accurate description of any philatelic material, any person, not just any APS member, can file a complaint with APS against the offender, and if investigation supports the charge, that person will be disciplined in a way that prevents further offense.

That is so whether the item is a cigar label, a computer print, or a piece of toilet tissue. Only postage stamps can be sold by APS members as postage stamps, and under the new program, only postage stamps can be sold on eBay as postage stamps.

November 30, 2003 John in Ms.(MagnoliaStamps)

Ken Lawrence
Sir
I'll beg to differ with you about your comments about J.W.Stark.He is one of the nicest people that I can think of!And quite knowledgable in British Commonwealths.Never have I seen nor heard a statement come from him that was not true.I personally think you owe an apology to him.

Now on the other if you want to match wits here and call names I'll be glad to oblige you in that field.(Uneducated) No! And as a matter of fact I have forgotten more about stamps than you'll ever know.


Now I got to go.Some of us still have to work for a living.Anybody looking for me I'll be on I-81 going north all day tomorrow.

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

Jim W-S

Thank you for the compliment. I'm baffled by your allusion to politics, since mine are pretty well known but scarcely tangent to this discussion. They are well dramatized, though not exclusively so, in my anti-Nazi exhibit of Holocaust mail.

If you have literally never before witnessed such gross arrogance as mine, you must have spent your entire life in a Quaker commune and never gone to lunch in Manhattan.

Truth is, I do not beat up on innocents, but I am as handy with ripostes as those who sling the verbal brickbats here.

November 30, 2003 Dave P

I do think the term "illegals" is bandied about too much. Surely illegals are non-authorised labels bearing a bona-fide stamp issuing authorities name. IMO these should be banned totally. Other material bearing fictitious names is in no way illegal, any more than football stickers are, and I agree no-one should tell another what to collect. I do think however that all responsible organisations (whether Ebay, APS or PTS) should insist that they are not sold as stamps, and that their status is clear. I fail to see what is so difficult about this.

November 30, 2003 David Benson

KL,

When I attended a Fakes & Forgeries Commission meeting of the FIP and Illegals were mentioned, Charles P. stated that it is not needed in the US as they have a self regulating system that precludes known sellers of Illegals being allowed to have a sales booth at any US show.

David B.

November 30, 2003 David Benson

KL,

changing the subject slightly, as a philatelist to a philatelist,

what is your opinion of the collectability of modern made computer prints. In your opinion are they collectable, are they stamps, should they be allowed to be sold on Ebay. Would it be possible to have your personal opinion and not the APS.

David B.

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

Rob Faux

I sometimes disagree with APS myself, and find myself on the minority side of many votes.

When I last visited this board, I tended to hold the attitude that you have about it, which was part of the reason I persisted. But when I returned after a few weeks of absence, reviewed the posts I had missed and then checked to see what material was regarded as important enough to archive for posterity, what I discovered was an unrelenting tattoo of anti-APS posts that went unrefuted. If no one here had the information to refute them, the question still remained, Why does no one object to the hubristic, spiteful tone of these posts, which is officially supposed to be taboo here?

I agree that Dave rarely censors anyone. That's a good thing. But he and others have frequently reprimanded writers for exceeding the bounds of proper discourse, except when the excess is directed against APS. In fairness, I recall that he did scold someone for such a provocation just before I left for Hershey, but that was also the last time, with plenty of offensive anti-APS stuff posted since then.

Still, I appreciate your post, and I'll welcome any eviudence that would tend to temper those impressions.

November 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Ken
Stick to stamps and avoid politics.
I sincerely appreciate your contributions to philately and hope that you physically will soon mend.
Your present political ramblings are, however, doing nothing to advance image of APS.
Explain sheltered life.

November 30, 2003 Brian R

illegals Personally, as a collector of US, these things affect me little. What people collect is their own problem. However, the illegals are just plain morally reprehensible. They are the crap designed to seperate kids from their allowence. They do it a the cost of denying revenues to some of the poorest nations on earth. I agree with some of the posters here that there should be some sort of policy, concerning at least full disclosure about what they are, from APS member dealers. The world is waking up to the fact that these "harmless" things aren't so harmless afterall. Total silence from the APS is disturbing, and I'd argue, harm by omission to a society that is based on ethics.

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Ken, I agree both Bob Odenweller and John Lievsay are highly respected philatelists but that wasn't the question. I asked have any more BC experts been added to the SWC.

David B.

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

David Benson

Too many Davids here, so I do the best I can for clarity's sake. The direct quotation I supplied from your archived post is fully in context. It defamed APS expert certificates, not the watch group. It is archived here under the title Expertizers.

What I actually wrote about Pacific Islands was that, contrary to your post alleging that APS certificates are not respected overseas, it was an Australian dealer who recommended the two APEX experts on Pacific Islands stamps as the most authoritative, in our efforts to prevent an eBay fraud that emanated from his country. I could have added that APS and PF expert Robert Odenweller is regarded internationally as a leading New Zealand expert, John Lievsay as a France expert, the late Werner Bohne as a Germany expert, and so forth. Their reference material is second to none. Their opinions were usually the first ones sought by the FIP in their respective areas of expertise.

November 30, 2003 Rob Faux

Anne As usual, you were much more positive than most of the rest of us can manage - and you beat me to the punch. I hope things go well with the root canal. And I'm glad to hear that Ken L is recuperating.

I'm going to go back to the balcony now... well, actually, I may not even be there for a few weeks.....

I was hoping to do a charity auction this year as I did in years past, but I'm afraid I won't be able to to. Perhaps someone else can do that this year? I could even donate some material towards it if desired?

Rob

November 30, 2003 Rob Faux

APS, expertizers, etc
Ken Lawrence I don't post often & don't like to rise to the bait - but can't help myself sometimes.

First, I enjoy the information you place in your posts. I have nothing against you, and I am a member of APS and support the organization - though, like all organizations, I may disagree with it at times and see places it can improve.

Second, you should reevaluate your opinion of Dave Frick and think harder before you make comments like those you did in the last post (or two). You call some opinions on this board ignorant - yet you show your own ignorance by claiming that your comments are not in a transcript of a conversation that was recorded for a particular time frame on a particular topic...at which time, I don't recall your posts - yours came after.

Further, you don't seem to realize yet that Dave is doing this in his spare time (what little of it he manages to find), that he IS a supportive APS member, that his posts have generally been positive toward the APS, that he RARELY deletes any messages. I am amazed that Dave undertakes as much care in moderating as he does and am surprised that he undertook the effort to create ANY transcripts....

Perhaps you could email Dave and suggest that some of the posts that came subsequently, including yours, might be valuable to ADD to the transcript. I would certainly support that.

But, I really wish you would refrain from making comments that demean the rest of us.

Rob

November 30, 2003 Jim Lawler

Bookmark

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

Anne

Thank you. Each day I'm a little stronger, but have had a couple of setbacks along the way to recovery. I hope your root canal is less arduous, but it can't be a happy occasion. I appreciate your kind words, and I hope Dave takes your suggestion.

I think you'll also agree that Jim W-S supported what I wrote, though that wasn't his intention. If taken literally, his post suggests he has led an implausibly sheltered life.

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Lawrence, (if you can call me Benson, I can call you Lawrence),

As usual you have taken my comments out of context. When I mentioned about the SWC I was commenting on British Commonwealth, not on all that is recommended for checking. By the4 way how many of the SWC have any British Commonwealth expertise.

I noticed that you made a comment a few weeks ago that you were annoyed at me because I mentioned that APS certificates for Pacific Islands are not considered outside the US. I never said that, I never mentioned APS, I never mentioned Pacific Islands, I mentioned that all US certificates are not considered.

David B.

November 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Sorry K-E I'll get back to your exhibits a bit later.

Ken Lawrence
I have never before witnessed such gross arrogance.
This board had been trying to assist the APS by suggesting alternative ways of attacking problem which we largely all seem to agree exists.
Several have commented on items on APS site which were less than honest which have been slow if ever to have been removed.
Others have commented on sellers who purport to be APS members selling illegals which wishy-washy attitude of APS is not about to condemn.
We haven't yet gotten around to commenting on APS ability to clean up eBay site since there is no apparent evidence of it having been done.
If it has, please cite examples.

November 30, 2003 Anne

Anne (smiling sweetly while waiting for the Advil to kick in--root canal scheduled for Tuesday)

November 30, 2003 Ken Lawrence <apsken@aol.com>

APS Leadership and Policy

Some of the more ignorant posters to this board have attacked APS Executive Director Bob Lamb, occasionally accompanied by various ambiguous comments alluding to the “APS executive.” No one has yet posted a proper reply that does justice to Bob's work for the APS and for stamp collectors everywhere.

For the benefit of those who are unaware, the Board of Directors, elected every two years by balloting of the entire membership, governs the Society. The Board consists of a President (who chairs the Board and appoints committee chairs), three Vice Presidents (I am one for the current term), a Treasurer, a Secretary, and four Directors-at-Large, plus the immediate Past President. All elected officers are volunteers. None are paid for this service to the Society.

The Board meets at least twice annually, sets policy for the Society, adopts an annual budget, and hires the Executive Director, a paid full-time staff member who implements our policies, reports to us, and manages the rest of the APS staff. He is thus the highest-ranking member of the APS staff, the chief executive of our office, and together with the elected President, one of the official representatives of the Society. His public statements reflect our policies.

Robert E. Lamb served a long and distinguished career with the United States Department of State, serving in the Foreign Service under U.S. Presidents from Nixon to Clinton. He rose through the ranks to the post of Assistant Secretary of State for Security; his final posting before retirement was U.S. Ambassador to Cyprus, a Presidential appointment that required approval of the U.S. Senate. Ambassador Lamb was then and is today a respected stamp collector and scholar, with particular expertise regarding stamp issues of disputed legitimacy.

So am I. My own contrarian streak caused me to assemble collections and to publish extensively documented articles on stamps that philatelic snobs scorned. (Philatelic busybodies who tell us what not to collect have been with us since the 1890s, when the powerful, London-based Society for the Suppression of Speculative Stamps denounced the 1893 U.S. commemorative issue for the World Columbian Exposition; today those are among the world’s most desirable stamps.) My first encounter with these bluenoses of stampdom came when I dared to collect the sperwerte of the German Democratic Republic, banned by FIP and the Cold warriors of APS, which today are in great demand among collectors everywhere, above all in Germany.

Several years ago I published, in the American Philatelic Congress Book and in the American Philatelist, comprehensive articles proving the postal legitimacy and necessity of stamps issued by the independent sultanates of the Trucial Coast of Arabia, widely condemned as “Sand Dune” stamps. For the previous 30 years, hobby writers had been publishing falsehoods about them. Prominent writers such as Herman Herst Jr. and Ernest Kehr wrote in their denunciations that Sharjah had no air mail service, though it was actually the first country of Arabia to be served by Imperial Airways, beginning in 1932, with the largest airport in the region until recent times.

When I began the collection, all but the Dubai issues were condemned and rejected by the FIP, and all were black-blotted by APS. By the time my collection sold at auction in 1999, the FIP had dropped its ban, and had admitted the Emirates Philatelic Association to membership. Many of my covers sold at four-figure prices, the best ones being repatriated to sophisticated specialists in their country of origin.

To counter the same snobbery, I also built a ten-frame exhibit of Walt Disney philately, another area that has been smeared with false allegations ever since San Marino issed the first authorized Disney stamps in 1970, and Sharjah and Fujeira issued the first so-called “illegal” Disney stamps in 1972. All those were displayed in my exhibit on commercially used mail. A bound copy of the exhibit is available for study at the American Philatelic Research Library.

My Disney exhibit was shown by invitation hors concours at the FIP-accredited World Stamp Exhibition Pacific 97 in San Francisco, awarded a gold medal prix d’honneur, with an article about it in the exhibition catalog. I sold that collection intact a couple of years later for six figures to a major U.S. stamp dealer, but I still have a single-frame Disney exhibit for appropriate occasions.

The current leadership of APS has no intention of telling any collector what he or she may collect, nor any dealer what he or she may buy and sell. We do require strict adherence to the APS rule that all material must be fully, properly identified, never offered deceptively. We support programs to educate collectors about every aspect of stamp collecting, including all disputes about the authenticity and legitimacy of any stamp issues.

Some of the posts here have implied that APS policy will soon change, allegedly based on inside information. I'll state categorically that I have received no communication, official or informal, from any other APS Board member, recommending a change in our policy.
 

November 30, 2003 14.36 Knud-Erik Andersen

November 30, 2003 14.31 Knud-Erik Andersen

November 30, 2003 14.28 Knud-Erik Andersen

November 30, 2003 Tom Mazza

Bob in WA Jim Kloetzel told me that they are almost done scanning the images for "the stamps we illustrate", which I took to mean that they are only showing representatives from the sets.

tcm

November 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

More than you ever wanted to know about London
Furthermore, the prestigious West End was outside the City at the western end.
Whereas the insalubrious East End was on the other side. :-Þ

November 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

To add to what Dave wrote, the original City was a walled entity located entirely north of the Thames, hence no north and south central.
This accounts for all of the names ending with Gate that you find in London.
Not to be confused with the City of Westminster, a much larger entity.
Note that Westminster itself is in SW1.
Nowadays, like the US, a postcode is used.

November 30, 2003 Dave P

London Cancels
Just to add to what Jim wrote below,the numbers in the cancels identified the individual stamps and thence, through a duty book, the actual clerk responsible (they were hot on quality control in those days!). Some numbers were reserved for specific duties, eg registry, late fees, etc. These numbers are completely separate from the numbers later given to the suburban areas.
For those that don't know, the City of London is a very small part of London (the Square Mile), and postally is part of the EC district. It still has its own unique form of local government, and its own police force, the City of London Police Force (the smallest in the UK) is not part of the Metropolitan Police.

November 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Additionally, since redistricting has introduced complications.
My house which you can see has label for Galton Street on the side, has the front door in Galton street but is in Droop Street.
It is in Paddington but W10 indicates Kensington whereas sign indicates redistricting to City of Westminster.
I hope that is clear :-Þ

November 30, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Christo
The London District Office was the brainchild of Sir Rowland Hill.
It consisted of:
East Central District - the Chief office
West Central District - created June 20th 1857
Northern created 1st September 1858
North Eastern created 12th October 1858
North Western created july 17th 1857
Southern created 1st September 1858
South Eastern created 24th March 1857
South Western created 12 May 1858
Eastern created 18th March 1858
Western created 24th March 1857

The NE ceased to exist on January 21st 1867, the Southern district April 1st 1868.
Though cancels for both continued to be used.
Additionally located in London were:
The Inland Office
Foreign Office
Ship Letter Office
Dead Letter Office

I beleve the house numbering scheme was the product of the same reorganization.
The numbers in the cancels were issued in numeric sequence when "it became necessary", extending to #66 in the SW.

November 30, 2003 John Forsyth

John in Ms
Sorry about the Parkinsons. The seller of the "thousands of stamps" has been getting worse over the time I have been on here. It is discouraging. And the bad guys will just find new ways to beat the system. The APS thing is a good start, but I have the uneasy feeling its like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke. I have been looking for a new area to collect and it is difficult to venture into a new area with the knowledge of all that goes on on ebay. I have gotten burned in areas I know fairly well, what would happen in a new arena? Oh well, buy the literature first I guess.

November 30, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

 

November 30, 2003 Paulb <paulb147atntlworlddotcom>

Christo van Zyl / London Codes
From the balcony re London Cancels
The old London area cancels are still in use today they are the now the Post (Zip) code and as far as I know all still remain the same as in the old days. Only WC & EC, West & East Central, actually refer to the City of London, the rest apply to the area around and into the suburbs.
Try www.travelbritain.com/post.html for the names of the areas

November 30, 2003 03:32 Jim Watson

Cristo,
Yes, my comment regarding the Jamaica the other day was principally due to the nice centering but the dial of the machine cancel was pretty nicely centered on the stamp. It's the sort of thing that I would have added to the cancellations portions of my page for that stamp.

November 30, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the Day 32


Todays cancels of the day have a serious slant to GB, but there are a few other countries represented as well:

Zambia (Fort Jameson, 1/11/1965, 10 30AM)

Great Britain. I guess the SE stands for South East City, 30/9/1903, 9 30 PM, canceller 1?

Great Britain (London, 25/7/1903, 6 PM). Duplex cancel with SW 32 in the barred oval cancel. The SW = South West City

Great Britain,(London, 5/12/1896, 1 AM). Another duplex cancel, this time with W C (West City?)

Denmark (?Svendborg, ??/6/1937, followed by 9-10F. Swiss – type cancel.

Questions with respect to the NW SE and so on cancels. I presume it was used for London City? London City subdivided into eight sectors (e.g SE, NW etc) or does the WC stand for West Central? The number below the Letters in the barred oval canceller identifies the PO? Jim W-S or Dave P, can you guys help out here?
 

November 30, 2003 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.orgN
 

Jim

November 30, 2003 David Benson

Anne, totally agree, when I saw Conquest's stand in Korea only young schoolchildren were buying and they were attracted by the designs, the issuing country didn't matter. Luckily they were forced to close their stand and now at any FIP sanctioned exhibition they are banned from attending as well as any dealer even offering or displaying illegals will be reprimanded even expelled. Why they are still allowed at US shows is completely beyond me and the organisers should know what is going on and ban them from attending and selling. The APS should make it one of their priorities to make sure that no collector is conned into buying them.

David B.

November 30, 2003 Anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of typographical errors (made by all of us); better images in Scott; and deciphering Greek, Arabic, Russian, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Letzenberger, and even Schweitzerdeutsch (which I almost certainly have mispelled).

November 30, 2003 David Benson

John,

re. Illegals,

and that is exactly why Ebay farmed off the problem about what to do to the APS. Ebay wanted a legal reason, the APS doesn't need one, just an ethical reason will do. They are not stamps, they are just pretty picture labels purporting to be stamps. The APS is a Philatelic organisation not a Pretty Picture Collecting organisation. They know what they are and they are not stamps and they should be covered by the SWC and delisted especially if the sellers are well known wholesalers of the material.

David B.

November 29, 2003 John in Ms (Magnolia Stamps)

David M.
it's ashame too! Many years ago I use to make the trip to Manhatten to buy from him when he was an uptown dealer.And over the years I put much faith in his integrity.And as I said I would have sent him payment in advance on his word alone.It is my understanding that Anthony sold out a few years back when they moved across the river to N.J. But its odd that tony is allways there when you call.Could this be another deception?And how when you go up there they have no counter sales,as i was told recently,I don't want everyone poking around my desk!Hell I figured that after a 1100 hundred mile drive up there they at least let me in.E-bay only. More deceptions.Or as Yoda would say,once you start down the dark path,for ever will it dominate your destiny! I think we can figure out what road they are on.

November 29, 2003 David M. <stamphick@dospalos.org`>

November 28, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the Day (31)


I feel that it is going to be a long day today. My wife’s work’s Christmas Party today, and I don’t really feel like it. Will have to bite the bullet and make as if I enjoy it!
David B: thank you for the info on the Sydney cancel. That spot is also bookmarked for future reference! It is difficult if one only has Volume 1 of the 4-volume set of Ralph Putzel’s encyclopedia on S A postmarks…… And then the new set is already at 10 volumes I think!.

So here is Todays cancels of the day:

Belgian Congo (Elisabethville, 22/8/1942). I can’t make out the numbers after the year

United States of America (New York, 29/8/1941, 12PM)

Jamaica (Kingston, 11/1/1956, 4 PM)

Transvaal (Covie, Transvaal, 8/4/1913). Example of interprovincial usage of stamps after unification of South Africa, prior to the introduction of the Kingshead definitive series in 1September 1913.
 

November 28, 2003 21:00 Eric Dyck

Jim Watson
I believe the tax stamp on your cover is actually Guatemala RA17. RA18 was issued on 1/8/1942 and had Construccion/1942/Un Centavo overprinted on the same stamp (Sc 234) of 1929 as RA17 in three horizontal lines. At times, tax stamps were required on mail in Guatemala in addition to regular postage to raise funds for construction of government buildings, including the National Post Office and a new communications building. I am aware of at least two other Guatemalan stamps which were officially bisected: Sc 277 (Jim W-S, note the volcano) and Sc C181. BTW, Guatemala also had a set of triangle shaped official stamps, Sc O6-12.

Jim W-S
See your snail mail next week. Volcano stamps incoming, including the one noted above.

Eric
 

November 28, 2003 Brian R

links
Dave I'm with others who say that the ability to link is more important. Most of us look at where the links came from before opening. Don't let some little pinhead from the Czech Republic alter a good thing.

November 28, 2003 20:34 Jim Watson

Lux T
Anne,
Gary's Ville T cancel apperas to have the simple sans serif t and proportions I was expecting. There is possibly some evidence of a curled bottom on the t but I'm not at all sure that's what it is.

Hope WMWM is feeling much better today. Holidays are hard on health.

Burnt artichokes are just what freezers are made for. Get out a pack of peas and toss in some butter and tell them it is your special buttered spring peas. If they're smart, they'll let you get away with it. Your rebuttal is always, "OK, so cook it yourself!"

November 28, 2003 Roger Heath

Misc comments
Jim - Killer has dot after W. The killer marks to the right line up exactly, and all 4 side marks are clean and of equal length.

David B - Swiss collectors do it right!

Anne - That's OK, just smother them in butter and pretend they were out on the Bar-B-Que.

Roger

November 28, 2003 stamp goddess--not domestic goddess

Hidden hazards of stamp collecting--just burned the artichokes for dinner. Anne

November 28, 2003 Anne

Haven't had a chance to check my references yet, but will do that later, after dinner. We're having a belated Thanksgiving dinner since my husband was sick yesterday. BBL.

November 28, 2003 Anne

lux cancel
Jimbo: Oh well, that's the only one I've got. I'll check some references but I don't know if I can come up with anything better.

November 28, 2003 David Benson

Roger, well described but I think they were handstamped eons ago and only one appears to be in indelible ink. I am glad he did not decide to add a new handstamp in indelible ink as it would have ruined collectable classical forgeries. Only modern made crap should be handstamped if allowed to be sold which of course they shouldn't.

David B.

November 28, 2003 Jim Watson

HTML Fixit
Thanks, Dave F.

November 28, 2003 Roger Heath

Falsch, so marked
David B -

I'm glad to report Scott Starling in Australia is the first seller I've seen to show the backs of stamps certified "falsch". Of course these are collectable, and will probably sell for a pretty good price. Well done Scott, thanks for showing how it should be done.

Roger

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dave P
Sorry for long delay, my printer overheated and then I spent a couple of hours scanning St. Helena.
More on that tomorrow.
Anyway, its easier to provide link than to send by email.
Besides which others may want to comment as to whether there is a period (full stop) after the W of NW in the killer.

November 28, 2003 16:58 Dave F. (moderator)

Jim W.: Sorry, I think I screwed up your post, as I had not yet turned the html back on again after my test. I'll attempt to fix your post now. If I can't (the syntax for links still sometimes gives me fits), then please repost one more time and it should work.

[update: I got it right, I think. Let me know if I need to fix something.]

November 28, 2003 16:44 Jim Watson

Luxembourg * †
Anne,

I think you have the wrong t. The one I'm looking for has just two straight bars and no curl on the base. As in †.

November 28, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Dave - As long as everyone can get into the habit of doing a mouse over on links before clicking them, then there shouldn't be any major problems. Maybe add a line to your "board ploicy" box above, encouraging everyone to practice safe clicking.

November 28, 2003 16:39 Jim Watson

Anne,

Thanks so much for the *† Luxembourg Ville cancel. I'm off to study it.
 

November 28, 2003 16:37 Jim Watson

HTML posting
Dave F.,I think the ability to provide links far outweighs the problems we encounter with bad links. Please don't.

November 28, 2003 16:18 Dave F. (moderator)

malicious links
Got back to see today's little problem. I could fix it partially, but not entirely.   [moderator's note:  Post removed for archives.]

As I looked through the tools I'm provided for this board, I noticed that I have the option to turn off the ability to use html tags within the post. For example, my post below, where it says "test link", was actually an html link to another website but was disabled by the posting software.

I have the option to keep the html turned off. That means that you'd need to copy and paste a link into a new window.

This would presumably eliminate the problem with the rogue poster, but also is more trouble for everyone else. (Also, this option is not retroactive, so we still have problems with the other post below.)

Any thoughts or preferences on this?

November 28, 2003 16:12 Dave F. (moderator)

test
test post:

test link

 

November 28, 2003 Dave P

Jim W-S

If you can sen me a scan fine, otherwise I'll use the one from your posting if you don't mind. Every now and again I send off a batch of new finds (or more often date extensions), and they will eventually appear in revisions.
Lost my phone line for a while there. Seems the electicity boys were a bit careless. They were doing a repair after the gas boys were a bit careless. The gas boys dig the road up every two or three months to repair the same gas leak. I reckon they use it for practice.

November 28, 2003 02.22 pm Colin Judd UK http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_GB_Machins/
 

Colin

November 28, 2003 Anne

luxembourg-ville small t cds (jimbo's cover)

Hi to all from a dank and darkening NJ and a computer with an increasingly unstable Windows ME system.

Jimbo: I finally found a copy of the disputed Luxembourg-ville small t cds. It's here (Warning: 480 k file--I didn't compress it because I wanted clarity).

Back later. Hope all have had a great Turkey Day and have much to be thankful for.

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Well colin, looks like National Parks went for just over $200 with the top bidder outbidding himself.
I think one at a time auctions would bring in more, but its also more work.

November 28, 2003 1242 Clark Frazier

613 Census
http://www.siegelauctions.com/enc/census/613/613.htm

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dave P
If you would like a high resolution version of NW cancel, I can do it later when I finish my mail out.
Looks like a hair got between stamp and cancel, leaving gap in horizontal bars.

November 28, 2003 David Benson

Dave, the FIP bans them from being exhibited and if any are noted then points will be deducted.

David B.

November 28, 2003 Dave P

Illegals
I have no objection to labels from non-existent countries being listed under cinderellas, however IMO those with the names of legitimate stamp-issuing entities should be banned completely. Actually the smell of complacency and double standards is rife on this topic. The leading UK trade magazine carried a short article about illegals and the damage they cause a few months ago. They also regularly carry an advertisement from a stamp wholesaler owned by one of the leading lights in their issue.
I believe illegals are banned from competition, what is the definition there?

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Askphil's links to UPU declared illegals.
Dave P
Yep dot after W made me take a relook at the stamp after reading Dubus.
Possibly it is an extension of the underlying smudge, but even then it looks fatter where one would expect the dot after the W to be.

November 28, 2003 Dave P

London Duplex
Jim W-S
The London PHG have expanded on the Listings of both Dubus and Westley. Your NW/9 is one of a series (1 - 24) issued in 1867. No. 9 was originally without fullstop, but was reissued (proof impression Oct 1871) with a fullstop, and was used through to May 1882. Interestingly the LPHG illustration shows only one fullstop (after the N), I shall have to check through my examples.

November 28, 2003 Richard Warren

David B - Yes, I noticed that! Don't worry, I passed the whole exchange on to Ms Libera! Mind you, it's probably just the fault of the minutes secretary, really, not catching the name or something. I'm sure Janet Klug was not at fault.

November 28, 2003 David Benson

Jim, maybe some members of the APS executive have never seen this,

By clicking the submit button, you are confirming that the item you are about to list is properly described and genuine.

David B.

November 28, 2003 Jim (jaywild)

November 28, 2003 David Benson

Richard,

I am sure that Maria would like to answer the following comment of Mr. Lamb.

" received a complaint from a woman who works for the Universal Postal Union. ".

David B.

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Richard
A pretty good summary of where the matter stands.
Since eBay already lists a warning on their stamp auctions, I see no reason why they could not include a statement to the effect that if the stamps are considered illegal by UPU, they should not be listed and will be removed if reported.
With perhaps a link to the relevent "askphil" page that lists them.
Unless, of course they are listed in cinderellas and forgeries rather than topical stamps.

November 28, 2003 Richard W

Sorry, paragraphing went a bit weird there. Apologies for space used.

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dang it, I hate it when I get outsniped.
Actually I was doing gun club mail out and forgot.

Jimbo
Guatemalan triangle link is still switzerland.

November 28, 2003 Richard Warren

Best wishes,

Richard Warren
 

November 28, 2003 Richard Warren

“Dear Mr. Warren
… It is clear that you feel strongly about the UPU's so-called "illegals." It is not however clear to me exactly what you want the APS to do about them. From my research, it appears that the UPU's "illegals" fall into at least three categories: (1) issues from UPU member states which the member says are unauthorized; (2) fantasy issues from entities which do not have an independent postal system and in some cases have never had one; and (3) stamps from entities which have functioning postal systems but a defective political status, at least in the eyes of the UPU member state submitting the complaint. There have also been some reliable reports that the first category may include some "stamps" which were approved by one faction of a government, but for whatever reason branded as unauthorized by another. The APS does not have the resources to sort this out. Our efforts a couple of years ago to contact governments on behalf of Scott Catalog for information about specific stamp issues proved to be both time-consuming and fruitless. The APS has been aggressive in tracking down and prosecuting counterfeiters. Despite the emotion which you apparently feel about them, the "illegals" do not fall in the same category.
One of the great riches of our hobby is the diversity of collecting interests. Our members do not look to the APS to tell them what to collect. In fact our one previous foray into this area -- the black blot program -- was less than successful. You seem to have uncritically adopted the UPU term of "illegal" as a literal description of the status of these items. There is a big question whether they in fact violate a US law. If they do, what action violates the law: producing them, selling them, buying them, possessing them, looking at them? If they do violate the law, I believe that the UPU or in this case, the Union of Myanmar, would want to take appropriate action against anyone in the chain they believe to be violating the law. If any specific activity involving these stamps is determined to actually be illegal, then the APS disciplinary process will take appropriate action to police tbe hobby. However, it is not appropriate for the APS to use its members' resources to obtain court decisions about the lawfulness of particular stamp issues.
The hobby has been confronted with the problem of determining the status of "stamp" issues from its earliest days. Collectors have in fact contributed a wealth of research on whether a stamp issuing entity is legitimate or even whether a particular stamp issue was properly authorized. Personally, one of my great pleasures in the hobby is reading from that rich body of research. The results of those studies are eventually embodied in our catalogues. I would suggest that we let that process continue to work on these issues as well. If you want to make a positive contribution to the effort, I would urge you to conduct some independent research in the "illegals" of Myanmar -- something that transcends UPU press releases -- and get it published. It would be interesting to know what stamps are actually in use in Myanmar today. Information about the origins of the illegals would be helpful. How can the average collector determine whether a stamp from Myanmar is authorized? Are there printing or other characteristics which would permit a novice to determine a legitimate issue?
With best regards, Bob Lamb”
 

November 28, 2003 David Benson

Duncan, thanks for the reply about the replicas. The scan only mentions some sort of handstamped code numbers on the reverse, nothing about replica, forgery, bogus, imitation, sample, copy, representative example, whatever. It also doesn't appear to be in indelible ink. The SWC should have that type of material and the seller on it's high priority list however they continue to be listed and sold.

David B.

November 28, 2003 11:00 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
For good measure, I have updated a triangle usage on cover from Guatemala to the United States in 1926. It was a legitmate use of a bisect to create a triangular stamp.

Jim W-X,
Neat cover to Paris!

November 28, 2003 10.45 am Colin Judd UK http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_Japan_stamps
 

Colin

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Duh,The back

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Today in Postal History
130 years old today.
Mourning cover from London to Henry W. Eaton Esq., Hotel Bristol, Paris.
London NW 9 cancel which is type 40b in Debus with periods after both N and W.
However, Dubus says it occurs without date stamp.
Also Angl. Amb Calais B cancel on the front.
Back has Paris reciever for 2:15, November 29th.

November 28, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Marking the Jenny forgeries

Nick

Your post regarding the marking of the US #C3a Inverted Jenny copies is quite interesting.

See, you suggest "verifying" how a seller is marking his forged items. There is good reason to require THE SELLER to verify how the stamps are marked. Some sellers of forged goods have shown a definite tendency to "game" the rules of eBay, and it is not the responsibility of the multitude to play detective to determine how the rules are being broken. Instead, those who dance around the rules have created a situation where now anyone selling such items should be required to scan both sides of the actual items showing exactly what is being sold.

There is no good reason a buyer (or watchdog) should need to actually buy items from a questionable seller to verify what is being sold, but it does make sense to question the "questionable" items.

In the case of the Jennies, we see now that the seller probably knows now that the "obverse" of the copies must be marked according to US government requirements, not eBay's rules. That is required so the items cannot be used postally. But the seller seems to think that the back side is the obverse. He has made a mistake, one that is only revealed now that he has provided scans of both the front (obverse) and back (reverse).

Imagine now that he decides to make replicas of later and higher value US stamps marked on the reverse. You see the problem, right? He is still violating US counterfeiting laws, as he was when he made unmarked copies.

Even eBay has provided links to the counterfeiting regulations but they don't seem to understand. It shakes my confidence when they drop the ball on such simple no-brainers.

Anyway, sellers of forged items are expected to provide actual scans of the items, not generic scans, just as the sellers of other stamps provide. And they should show both sides, simply because too many of those sellers have been deceptive (including you, Nick).

Dunc

November 28, 2003 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

November 28, 2003 Frank

Stamps
Ed B.
We all see the world differently. Let's agree to disagree and just enjoy our hobby. Would that be OK?

November 28, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

These stamps seem to be very popular.
Frank,
makes South African flying seem like west Texas where most of the ranches have their own airfield.

November 28, 2003 Frank

South Africa
Hi Jim, The Afrikaners arrived in Southern Africa in the 17th century (1652)and they earned their living developing the land: farms, vineyards and cattle raising. Subsurface wealth was developed in the late 19th century and was largely controlled by the British occupation forces and European adventurers. It was from 1949 onwards that Afrikaners gained some control over the mineral wealth of the then Union of South Africa. As to stamps I enjoy collecting airmail covers of South Africa. Consider: Cairo to Capetown is 5,000 miles largely over then sparsley settled land. Landing strips hacked out of bush. No radio, no night or instrument flying, spare parts non-existent and crashes far to often. Yet the mail got through. The first post-office sanctioned demonstration airmail flights were in 1911 which is about as early as it gets. England had demonstration flights at Windsor Castle that year as did India at Alambad. So, South Africa was at the forefront of this new advance in carrying the mails.

November 28, 2003 Ed.B

Ed


 

November 28, 2003 05:43 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Good Morning, Everyone!
Today's dated postal history item is a registered airmail cover from Switzerland to Tanganyika in in 1926. It has 14 postmarks as it wandered around as postal clerks searched for the addressee.
 

November 28, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

November 28, 2003 00:51 Bjorn Munch

Collecting postwar CZ
If you want a challenge, try collecting postally used copies as opposed to CTOs. BTW, I sold off my pile of mint SS's last winter and got a decent price for them.
 

November 28, 2003 08:26 Nick I (lotus194)

Inverted Jenny
David Benson--I am afraid you are wrong about the backstamping of these stamps. Not only is each individual stamp in a block backstamped, but they each have an individual serial number also.

This highlights another problem with the vigilantes on this board, you do not necessarily confirm your suspicions before you condemn a seller, but then again I am not the first to mention that am I?

Nick I

November 27, 2003 Chris

Thoughts Bleary while on a midnight dreary I cataloged Czecho
Cataloging postwar CZ is trying because (1) there are so many of them
and (2) they all look alike.

Which stiring picture of the populace greeting the Russian soldiers with flowers is this one?
Which picture is this of someone running a lathe?

I have noticed one nice thing. CZ may be the cheapest country to complete, all the stamps catalogue at the
minimums. Even the "expensive" SSs are about nine dollars. I'm sure there is a joker in there somewhere, but I haven't
seen it yet.

Chris - about ready to put a bunch of "lonely singles from various ceahp sets" in my nickle envelope without even cataloging them.

November 27, 2003 Chris martian-death-flu.curn
 

Score, Flu 2, Us 0
Well, the flu is in retreat. Quick action on my wife's part got us
tamiflu, which shortened the course of it quite a bit. But, if this was
the Reader's Digest version, I don't want to see the Director's Cut.
I got sick on Sunday, here it is Thursday, and I am running at 30% power.
(And yes we had flu shots, they got the wrong mix this year.)

Chris - still cataloging Czechoslovakia

November 27, 2003 David Benson

Christo, it's Sydney CGH, see

http://www.pbbooks.com/cr14.htm

David B.

November 27, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the Day 30


Todays cancels of the day :

Italy (Oristano, Cagliari, 3/6/1943)

South Africa (Keetmanshoop S.W.A., 31/3/1967). South African stamp used in South West Africa (now Namibia)

Palestine (Haifa, 3/9/1940, 5 pm)

Cape of Good Hope (Sydney, 3/2/1910). Is this a Cape of Good cancel of is this a Sydney (NSW/Australia) cancel? Any help?
 

November 27, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Bill W.
The scan is on its way.Its coming from Sher's e-mail address!
CYE

November 27, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Bill Wiess
I sold them between posts to another collector who stopped by for a visit. I have some left but they are faulty.I'll e-mail them in a few.BTW what about the confederate scans that I sent last week.

November 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Frank,
I'm not quite sure of the message behind your last post.
South Africa is one of the most geologically endowed nations in the world.
So it doesn't have much oil.
Diamonds, gold, platinum etc seem to make up for that defficiency.

November 27, 2003 frank

ending an auction early
I enjoyed the range of opinion expressed and it has aided me in coming to the conclusion that letting an auction run to the end is best. However when an auction already has a 'end it now' option I shall most certainly take it if it's an item I badly want. I'm a born and bred New Yorker Christo. Have always had admiration and respect for the Afrikaaner people and there ability to survive the African landscape, carve out a living, hew to their faith and endure the concentration camps of the British and their men folk being exiled to the four corners of the earth during and after the Boer War. Anyway back to stamps !!

November 27, 2003 Bill Weiss

MAGNOLIA JOHN
JOHN; Can you send me scans of the three items you mentioned and perhaps we can make a deal. wrw43@rcn.com. Thanks.

November 27, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Matt Liebson
Well I guess I'll miss the Columbus show too.I left befor you made you post,I did get away from up there in record time they were talking about more snow,there was already about a foot where i was.I left Wendsday about 11 a.m. and went to Rochester and visited with John Kellem at McLeod stamps and theen went to Macedon N.Y. and made a pick up and beat it home.I got back Ms. about 5 p.m. I had one so called dealer make an attempt to buy some stamps ,or should I say he wanted me to give them to him, Like an xf #1 orange brown dbl transfer with a orange red grill cancel and 2 #4 proofs and of course a full set of columbians to the 4dollar stamp.You'll never guess the big spenders offer.What a jokester he was..

I see I have not missed anything important other than discussion about then clown in W.V. And someone who thinks that Tony has gone blind!So what else is New...

November 27, 2003 Richard Frajola

"may not be genuine"
Anybody know the current status of decriptions like the seller here has on all his US local post items? Everything I looked at (Crosby, Virginia City Pony, Floyd's, Price's) was a rank fake. I emailed seller and pointed out that the Pony cover was fake a few days ago.

November 27, 2003 Bob Hohertz

Shouldn't need to sometimes wars with getting things done...

November 27, 2003 David Benson

bob, shouldn't need to, enough complaints have been sent to the SWC. I was under the impression that all queries had to go to Ebay and they forward them to the SWC. It would be fantastic if a shortcut method could be arranged and maybe that can be discussed with Bob Lamb when he answers queries.

p.s. I still haven't seen any items with an indelible marking on reverse.

David B.

November 27, 2003 BobHohertz

David, Bob Lamb says to e-mail him directly if needs be.

November 27, 2003 David Benson

I noticed that the inverted Jenny replicas are still being sold

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=gorch3&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50

no handstamps on reverse,

come in SWC, where are you,

David B.

November 27, 2003 Roger Heath

PO Pics
As you see below I've been collecting PC's of the 12 different district headquarter PO's, a couple are proving to be very elusive.

Roger

November 27, 2003 Roger Heath

Rarity, real close?
This card looks nice and clean and is "almost" a rarity. Mr DeCoppet lived in Lausanne and it's known he frequented the Lausanne PO keeping tabs on his razor cancellers. He repaired them as necessary and managed their maintainance. There are no known breaks in service at Lausanne.

These experimental devices were used at the 12 main district PO's around Switzerland with the mandate to test them thoroughly, which meant in some PO's they were used by different personnel in different sections, or at others they were used on every piece that went through the PO. Patterns have developed where it's a reasonable conclusion that the Lausanne devices were only used on outgoing mail. To oversimplify a little, as a receiver there are recorded two unique uses of two of the devices, and a couple of late receiver examples of the third type. Needless to say finding a Lausanne receiver would be special.

This appeared recently. I thought, this is it!!! But as you see the cover was forwarded so the possibility existed that this wasn't a receiver, but an outgoing forwarding cancel. I asked for a scan of the back, and there it was, a standard Lausanne receiver dated just 3 hours earlier. The cover was received at 3pm on Oct 12, 1902, delivery was attempted at the Hotel Gibbon, but the guest had left. The cover was returned to the PO, cancelled with the Lausanne razor at 8pm, then forwarded to the Hotel Cygne, Montreux. Almost!

Roger



 

November 27, 2003 David Benson

Frank, contacting the seller is not a good idea and all it can have is a negative effect, maybe even the seller withdrawing the item.
You should just place a very high snipe bid in and watch what happens and be ready to bid if you see any high action at the closing stages. You are a collector not a bargain hunter, the two don't go together. If you are lucky and get a scarce item at a cheap price good but a specialist that is chasing a rare item often has to pay high prices as someone else wants it too.

David B.

November 27, 2003 11:45 Dave F. (moderator)

Happy Thanksgiving!
A Happy Thanksgiving for those of you in the US, and a great Thursday to everyone else!

I hope to have the membership info which I solicited a couple of weeks ago to be up and posted by the weekend. (The challenge has been to put links together for the other philatelic organizations to which you belong.)

Again, best wishes to all, whether it's a holiday for you or not.

November 27, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Frank: Don't say "tot siens", it sounds so final. Rather say "sien jou weer!".

November 27, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Early Ending?
Frank: An ex-South African now living in the USA?

In the few cases people have contacted me and requested to end the auction early, I have allways declined. I believe it is unfair to the bidders. In all of the cases the items realised far more than was offered by the interested parties. If something like this happens (e.g. the Iran stamp I have referred to below), I normally defer to a chat board for advice as to why the interest. And then I add that info to the lot while it is still running.
If I don't know what an interested party knows because of superior knowledge, then I don't care about the price realised during the auction. There is no regrets afterwards for me - what I don't know can't hurt me.

November 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

The sanest solution is for the runner-up to email the winning bidder and offer to buy it at more than the selling price.
Somehow, I don't think this would work too often.

November 27, 2003 Dave P

Early Ending
There have been quite a few instances of postings on this board by a seller who has been asked to end an auction early, as far as I know in every case, without exception, the lot realised more by letting it run. In a couple of cases much more.

November 27, 2003 Bob Hohertz

Ending an auction early

You can end any auction early and sell to the current high bidder at their current high bid - eBay does not care if you do that. Whether it's a good idea is another question entirely.
In fact, if you find you need to end an auction early and do not cancel the bids, you have sold it to the high bidder.....

November 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

I agree with Brian, though have never yet seen an item on eBay that I must have "at any cost".
Patience is a virtue, and waiting for an auction to run its course is no problem.
If you really must have an item, just use esnipe with a ridiculous sum of money as the bid.
And hope that someone else who values item equally, has not done the same thing.

November 27, 2003 Brian R

sorry frank
I don't agree. Asking A seller to end an item, and sell it to you at whatever price, is like dating your brothers girlfriend.....on the sly. I consider it completely dishonest and a sign of low character. Ebay would likely agree with me, as usually, this results in avoided fees. They should take the next step, and NARU any bidder, who proffers such an offer.

November 27, 2003 Frank

End an Ebay auction early
'Buy it now' option: Nobody wants to lose. Some sellers figure he's trying to get it for less than a seller would get in a completed auction. The buyer may want to get it for less than if the auction runs to its end. A dealer/seller could say I've got x in this item and if I get y for it I'm happy. That's what a 'buy it now' option means. I think you'd agree there's no harm in asking and depending on the whim, mentality or how the sellers feeling on a given day it could be a good choice.Me, I just want to lock up the lot. Tot siens Christo.

November 27, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Happy Thanksgiving
Hmm, one of the bidders on an auction I was interested in just got hit with an administative cancellation and a NARU.
Bidder had a high and seemingly unblemished record.
I wonder what's up !

November 27, 2003 Bob Hohertz

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

and I need to clean up my junk - company later.

November 27, 2003 04:39 Jim Watson

There is also an update of an Italian cover which illustrates some unusual rates in Florence (Firenzi) in 1862. Paolo was helpful in putting this one together last year.

November 27, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

November 27, 2003 Roger Heath

End Early?
I'll second Christo's comments.
When I had a number of postal cards inbound to Switzerland I used to start all my auctions at $1.00. I had an 1890 Spanish PSC with printed advertising for which I'd paid $12.50. I recieved an offer from Spain for $10. Said No, he upped offer to $15.00. I really didn't want to end early, and didn't want to start a policy of doing so. Anyway at end of auction he was under bidder at where the card sold for $52.00.

The only thing I'll do is ask for additional scans, usually of the reverse, and courteously thank after receiving, if ever. I never express my intentions in the reply.

As stated there are nearly always others looking and lurking like last week when my snipe of 31.78 beat a 31.10 bid. All three bids were in the last 30 seconds, and I got the cover for double starting price.

Roger

November 27, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Buy it now
Frank and David: I might have well been one of the 20 hits (my inquisitive minds I guess!)

Frank, just as a curiosity, why would you contact the seller to negotiate a fixed price (i.e. get him to end the auction and sell to you)? I believe that this methodology just starts the alarm bells going in a sellers head. I would rather keep quiet and put in a snipe (of course if you do this there is allways the chance that someone else might do the same, and that you might have a seller who is amenable to the offer).
I had a similar experience with one of the items I listed earlier this year (or maybe even late last year). Was a lot of bulk Persian stamps, starting at $1. Got contacted by an interested buyer who offered me $5 for the lot, particularly as he was interested in the first few stamps. Of ccourse, now I wanted to know why he wanted it, so I posed the question on the ebay chat board, and it came back that the second stamp had a very rare cancel on it (albeit partial). I declined the buyer's offer. He eventually won the lot, but it went for something in the early 50 dollars if I recall correctly.
Even if one does not contact the seller with an offer, one should never forgot the fact that there are other interested parties out there, who also recognize the item for what it is. In a case like this one probably has to consider how rare the item is and how much one is willing to pay (and then maybe raise your ante a bit higher)! Good luck with the bidding!

November 26, 2003 frank

'Buy it now' option
to David Benson, Thanks for the tips. I tried to negoiate a fixed price with the seller but sharks are circling and he smells blood. Been contacted by another interested party, has had over 20 hits to the listing and will let the auction run he said. Item is a manufactured cover and you're right; without them we would have little to collect. It's an exotic and I'm well and truly intrigued by it. It's also a bit fishy. More if I get it. You may be realistic with your estimate but I'm choking on it. I'll probably come around though. Regards.

November 26, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the day 29


Short and sweet for todays cancels of the day :

Orange Free State (Winburg Road R.O., 16/12/1895). The R O stands for rail postal agency

Victoria (Heathcote, 11/2/1998)

Belgium, probably a precancel(?) With a boxed Anvers 01

Bavaria (Nuernberg 20, 20/2/1906) with the time 11 – 12 vor (mittag) inserted between the month and year
 

November 26, 2003 21:08 Jim Watson

Notes From the Past
Well, I finally got another round tuit! I've updated my index for the Notes from the Past. It now has an index with links for all 507 (+ 1) Notes in that series all on one page. It was done in two parts: The First 300 are at the top and the Next 207 are at the bottom. Scroll
down to see the two parts. Please let me know if you run into any bad links or errors. TIA!

November 26, 2003 Bill Weiss

1c 1857
I don't think the stamp has a break at the bottom. While difficult to tell 100%, it looks to me like the bottom frameline goes through the perf tips - thus only broken at top = type IIIa. Also, as Scott explains in the Specialized, for a 1c to be considered a type III the break in the line must be at least 2mm, so even if the bottom line is slightly broken, it's still considered a type III. I do agree though, that without benefit of a larger scan, we can't be 100% certain that it isn't a type IIIa with some "painting", although I don't think that's what this seller is hiding. I think he's trying to downplay the crease, thus the mini-scan. He's a known and proven seller of fraudulently-described stamps. He often used to come onto the chatboards and cry about how his listings were picked on, yet when told and confronted with the facts, he never did anything to change. Then, I believe, the stamp watchdog committee had him shut down for a while. Then I think he went to Yahoo, and now he's back selling the same type of questionable stuff.

On another matter, I've stuck the Anthony's listing of the fraudulently-described #35 in my "favorites" and if it sells, I will contact both Anthony's and the buyer. Another longtime seller who ought to be ashamed of himself. Done for the night.

November 26, 2003 Brian R

I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to why.

November 26, 2003 Jim (jaywild)

November 26, 2003 Jim (jaywild)

November 26, 2003 Jim Lawler

bookmark

November 26, 2003 Jim (jaywild)

The stamp I linked to below is 9L10, a #24 from plate ten. The faint lines in the left top ornaments clinch the ID--I ran it past Richard Doporto and he concurs.

November 26, 2003 Jim (jaywild)

Alas, it is very easy to make a 24 look like a more expensive scan with a crappy scan. I offer

this as evidence. This is a manipulated 24 that looked wonderfully like a 22 in the small auction scan, even though the drawn-in lines are of a different blue. It takes little effort to draw blue pencil lines that look perfectly OK as long as they’re not magnified. I may be wrong, but the fact that the seller won’t provide a more detailed scan is kind of a red flag to me.
 

November 26, 2003 Michael Walter

November 26, 2003 Jeff Lindstedt <jncnal@earthlink.net>

FF Covers
Any one else do US First Flights from the 20s and 30s?

I try and find different FF Airmail covers from Rockford, Illinois.

This cover is my 12th. It only has 5 half-chevrons (type) on the top.

The envelope-designers knew the market.
 

November 26, 2003 Bill Weiss

1c 1857 Stamp
Despite the fact that this seller is a well-known hairball, in this case, I think you (Mike & Jim) are wrong about this stamp. The only way it could be a type V would be if the side ornaments are painted in - not an easy thing to do. Further, the side margins really aren't as wide as you make them sound and are typical of type III or IIIa stamps. Also, type V's often (very often) exhibit minor plate cracking or scratching at the sides and there are none on this stamp. While I don't believe him about the "preprint paper fold" - it just looks like a crease to me - he is selling this as a #22 and if I had to expertize it at gunpoint from the scan, I would say it IS a #22.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone - including our non-American friends on this board who, while they do not celebrate this holiday - can appreciate the spirit of it, just as we can.

November 26, 2003 Roger Heath

Jim's stamp
Jim -
You draw quality bidders even with your no margin offering.

Re: AOL disks. At a Coast Guard meeting it was suggested that all boats cary at least one old disk. They are very effective as signalling mirrors.
When sighting one looks for the bright reflection through the hole, then guides the light up to other boats or rescue aircraft. When one is at sea a sure sign of people signalling for rescuers is a steady light. Window reflections, etc bounce around with the waves, a signal mirror less so. For those of you conducting land expeditions into the backwoods where the possiblity of accidents is possible, the same applies. Nearly all search and rescue these days is from the air, and signal mirrors (AOL disks) are great devices. For those of you in Texas due to lack of sun and inclement weather:
Step 1) Use your highest caliber weapon and shoot in the direction of the aircraft, they will see the muzzle flashes and report your location.
Step 2) Duck, there will be incoming!!

Roger

 

November 26, 2003 Jim (jaywild)

Your mystery stamp (here) looks like a TYPE III 1851 series 1c Franklin, Scott #21, CV $2,500, however given that seller’s unsavory reputation I wouldn’t bet on it. When I asked him recently for a larger scan of a stamp he was selling he replied that his scanner won’t do anything larger than 150 dpi. That is a complete crock. Off the top of my head the stamp is likely a #24 that has been monkeyed with, which a 600 dpi scan would reveal—so perhaps it’s no coincidence the seller’s scanner just happens to be useless for scanning stamps. For one thing, the stamp is very wide, which is characteristic of a #24, and the gaps in the top and bottom lines are extreme, another hint that the stamp is likely a 24, possibly a TYPE Va.

November 26, 2003 David Benson

Frank, I had another look at the item. It must have been connived by the addressee who most probably sent out typewritten self addressed envelopes with instructions to post them without stamps as he was after the postage due markings on arrival. He might have only sent one there and possibly the item is unique (even though philatelic). As commercial mail from that period is virtually non existant then philatelic mail is the only way to way to acquire material.

Hope you get it as it will be a fine addition to your collection.

David B.

November 26, 2003 Dave P

Jim W-S

Somewhere I have got a 1d black, let us say that it would make the margins on your red look huge. I shall put it on Ebay when I am feeling particularly sour.

November 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Michael
Can't read a word of the text since I am in Netscape 4, but looks like some sour dude on a bluish US one cent stamp with a preprininting error, whatever that may be.

Okay, my attempt at holiday humo(u)r.

November 26, 2003 Michael Walter

A Quiz
What stamp am I?
 

November 26, 2003 Daid Benson

Frank, it was easy,

saw your note here and on Ebay Chat, realised who you were and what you collected, looked at the listings for that country, easy to tell which one it was.

Nice item, never seen one before and it will look nice in your collection,

won't mention what it is as one of the snitches here might contact the seller, (or bid on it themselves).



David B.

November 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Just finished cleaning out my computer desk drawer cos I couldn't close it anymore.
Amazing what trash accumulates.
Must have been 15 copies of AOL trial disks.
Numerous telephone modem cords.
A bunch of software I have never used.
Old turbotax disks.
Software for printers long gone.
Numerous zip disks for machine that long ago suffered click death.
etc. etc. etc.

November 26, 2003 Frank Mc Alonan

'Buy it now' answer
Well, I rooted around in ebay's tutorials and here's how a seller can put a 'buy it now' option in an auction. First you need to end the auction early and resubmit it with the option in the new auction:
Per Ebay:
1. Click on the "Site Map" link located on the Navigation Bar. Scroll
down and click on the "End my auction early" link. It's located in the
middle column.

2. On the next page, enter your User ID, password, and the item number.

3. If there are bids on the item, you will see two choices. The first is
"Cancel bids and end listing early." The second is "Sell item to high
Bidder(s) and end listing early." If you wish to end the item without
selling it to any Bidder(s), please select the first option and click on
"Cancel bids." If, however, you wish to sell the item to the high
Bidder(s) for the current high bid price without waiting for the listing
to end on its own, please select the second option and click "Sell
item."

4. If there are no bids on the item, or if you select to cancel the bids
on the item, you will be prompted to select a reason for ending the item
early. You can finish ending your listing by clicking on "Continue."
So, if a seller wishes to sell at a fixed price, which a number of dealers do, that seller can. He can work out a price with a prospective buyer put it up as a 'buy it now' option and its a done deal. However if he wants to let the market rule he can do that as well.
Happy Thanksgiving to one and all.

November 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Thanks Chip, I will update the web page.

November 26, 2003 Jim (jaywild)

Anthony's Stamp and Coin fraud
This clod has sunk about as low as it’s possible to go. This stamp is clearly a #35, and a crappy one at that, not a #31. This is either outright fraud or else the seller has gone blind, in either case he shouldn’t be selling stamps.

November 26, 2003 Brian R

I'm looking forward to getting 4 clear days of stamping in! Its probablely not going to happen, for we are the site this year, that all the disperate relatives will assemble at.

November 26, 2003 Frank Mc Alonan

Ebay 'Buy it now' option
Hi,Dave, I laughed at your tongue-in-cheek response to my query about whether a seller can add a 'buy it now' option to an existing Ebay sale if he/she has had no bids yet. Seriously can a seller do that? Does anyone know? Dave, how were you able to determine the lot I was interested in since I had not bid on it yet? That's fascinating. Are you the seller?

November 26, 2003 Chip G

I Do! I Do!
CEF is "Comite Electrotechnique Francais"

Do I win? Is first prize a week in Alpine?

November 26, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

My latest acquisition (large file).
Does anyone know what CEF stands for?

November 26, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Guillaume v T: Thanks for the info, it is a 73, and not a 75 as I stated. I have no excuse, didn't have a drop to drink.

November 26, 2003 05:58 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Thanks to Bill Longley I've learned some more about this morning's Transvaal cover. The addressee was a stamp dealer who bought remainders from Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick. He was the source of many of the mint stamps from these provinces.

November 26, 2003 04:28 Jim Watson

There is also an update of a registered cover from Mauritius to Tahiti in 1930.

November 26, 2003 Dave P

UV
Eric

Most short-wave UV lamps also emit long-wave. To screen out the short-wave just shine through a pane of plain glass, if you are lucky you then have a long-wave lamp!

November 26, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

November 26, 2003 David Benson

It would be extremely unfair to bidders who have put in snipe bids whch may be higher then you are willing to pay.

I notice that the item only has a starting price of One Pound 50, just put in a snipe for the amount it is worth to you (say 30 Pounds),

David B.

November 25, 2003 9:52 PM frank mc alonan <fmcalonan at earthlink dot net>

ebay 'buy it now' option
If a seller has no bids yet on a lot can he add a 'buy it now' option or is it too late? I'd like to buy the lot without waiting for the end of the auction

November 25, 2003 21:46 Eric Dyck

Bill and Clark

Thank you for your useful posts. Short-wave UV brings out the red in the Clarets compared to the Red Browns, and makes my new stamp stick out some in the line up. So, I hold out some hope that it may be a J17, unless it is washed out so much that it doesn't light up as much. Though Bill is most likely right. I don't think it's worth a cert: centering is fine at best, and there is a significant crease. I think I'll take it along to the next stamp club meeting and get 10 different opinions there. I agree with Bill that my J16 is really a J23 based on the UV exam. I don't have a long-wave lamp. The J16 seems to have some red compared side by side with the J1 I have on another page, so I think I'll leave it as is for now. Difficult to see on a scan.

Someone must have a Stamp Law named after him/her covering this situation?: If your stamp can be ID'd as one of two stamps, it will always be the less expensive one (unless you sell it for the lower price).

Eric

November 25, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the Day 28


Todays cancels of the day:

Transvaal with a duplex cancel. The barred part of the duplex shows ZAR with a 3 above and a 1 below. The CDS shows a partial Johannesburg strike.

Block of six “Kingsheads”, South Africa with an oval CDS reading Reistered, Port Elizabeth, 10/5/1916

 

November 25, 2003 20:56 Bill Claghorn http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

Censors ready
IOmoon It seems that the Dead World censors over on the eBay board are active deleting posts again. I posted a link to general completed auctions and the post was deleted. Hopefully the censors can lighten up a little. Perhaps there is a snitch there ready to report any type of useful information.

November 25, 2003 Bill Weiss

Various
My first post in several days because I am currently typing the catalog for our next auction - and I appreciate the mention by Eric D. below about the current Linn's front page story about Ken Lawrence's unique coil pair.
Eric, regarding your Dues problem, there is no way other than color to differentiate between the first 3 Dues issues - except as Clark points out about UV below. It's tough to do from scans, but here's what I think about your album page; Your J15 is really J1, your J16 is really J22 and your J24 is a faded J24.
 

November 25, 2003 19:35 Clark Frazier

Large Postage Due Shades
Eric Dyck,

According to Brookman (as of 2002), the Clarets glow under UV light (forget whether long wave or short wave) and the red browns do not. I have not seen a confirmation of this elsewhere, but from the ones I have checked, it is a good initial indicator. For some reason, the J24/J10 comparison seems to be more difficult than the others.

November 25, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

For anyone who does not believe the power of ultraviolet radiation on the color of stamps.
The following postcards are chilling examples.
The first shows a postcard kept in a drawer before.
The second shows a postcard placed on the wall for about 6 years, after

November 25, 2003 18:10 Eric Dyck

Question and News

Is there a way, other than color, to tell the first three United States Postage Due issues apart? I bought what was purported to be a used J24 (1891 3c) at Chicagopex this past weekend, but it sure looks funny sitting there in the row of other “bright claret” stamps from 1891, but it definitely has some red in it, so it’s not a J3 or J10 (I wish). Of course I want it to be a J17 (1884 issue), as that is the higher CV, but it does look like it matches the color of the other 1884 stamps that I already have. Here is a scan of the page, if that helps. It has a crease, which I didn’t note until I got home, so it is not going to be a hugely valuable stamp, but I would like to have it identified and placed properly in my collection. Any thoughts.?

StampChatters in the news: Bill Weiss and Ken Lawrence – “Long-missing 345H coil in Weiss February sale” Linns Stamp News, December 1, 2003. "The only known pair of a long-missing US coil stamp will b e auctioned by Bill and Addie Weiss in Newark, NJ in February 2004. Discovered by Pennsylvania collector Ken Lawrence, the horizontal pair of the 3c deep violet imperforate coil stamp of 1910 was certified as genuine in May 2002 by the Apex. ...

Gotta run, Jayhawks are playing Michigan State.

Eric

November 25, 2003 05.36 pm Colin Judd UK http://mysite.freeserve.com/GB_Special_Issues/
 

Colin

November 25, 2003 Guillaume van Turnhout

Belgian cancel
Christo: Your Belgian cancel is from the Liège (Luik) PO if it is n°73 (at least, that is what I see). If it is indeed n°75 you're dealing with Lokeren PO (Lokeren = city between Antwerp and Ghent).

November 25, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Just to let you know that miracles still do happen. Received in the mail today payment for an bay item I have sold to a buyer in Hong Kong. What is so strange about it. Well, the cover was machine cancelled on 23/9/2003. So it took slightly over two months to arrive here in South Africa. Probably because it had no airmail sticker on. Was franked with a Hng Kong $5 stamp.

Dave F; Thanks. Re the Japanese stamps, any method would be OK. Do what is easiest for you.

 

November 25, 2003 Dave P

Colin
Yep, oversize covers (basically anything over C5 size) which won't go through the conventional machines are called flats. They (and packets) have been a problem for RM for years as they don't go through the automated process. Different sorting offices have variously worded handstamps for the cancelling duty, (there doesn't seem to be a lot of standardisation). My local one seems to prefer the trusty biro!
Over the years there have been a number of machine cancellers specially developed for this job, the most successful was the "Rodis mangle" of which one or two are still in use (looks like a Krag cancel).

November 25, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Terence

Many thanks for the PVI's, I think that I have a classification scheme for them nailed now.

November 25, 2003 Chris

Denver Stamp Club Cinderella
Jim W-S That is a cool cinderella you found.
I will ask some of the club members and see if they know anything about it.
I was planning on doing something like that for the Boulder club.
Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier, I spent monday delerious with
the Martian Death Flu.

Chris - on the mend, but still not working on stamps.

November 25, 2003 Terence Hines

Terry

November 25, 2003 10:37 Dave F. (moderator)

Christo: Made the url change. By the way, I still owe you a brief response from your Japanese cancels of a few days ago. Please remind me again on here, or else I can write you off-line.

November 25, 2003 Chris

Denver
Terence Hines That bourse is a once a year one and is the last one of
the Denver philatelic season. There won't be anything until January.
You might visit Showcase Stamps on Wadsworth Blvd. They are my favorite
of the local stamp shops.

Chris

November 25, 2003 10.20 am Colin Judd UK http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_GB_Machins/
 

Colin

November 25, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the Day 27

Back home again after two hot and muggy days in the field. Drill hole was on song and hit the targeted mineralised horizon at the expected depth. Hopefully the PGE assays will come back and do me proud! Todays cancels of the day as a result are a bit late, but here flies:

Great Britain with Army Official overprint (Inverness 3, 12 45pm, 5/5/1903). Question: I normally assume that cancels displaying time are always machine cancellers. But here is two SON CDS’s showing a time. These surely can’t be machine cancels?

Great Britain (Glasgow, 28?, 6 45 pm, 1/1/1902)

Belgium, barred numeral cancellation with number 75. Any help on the PO name?

Germany (Breslau, 2, 7/12/1886) 7 – 10pm.


Roger H: Many thanks, your stamps arrived today. They are already in the album. Looking good!!


 

November 25, 2003 Mauro Mowszowicz http://www.uruguaystamps.com
 

Hi there, I have just posted a new online auction of specialized Uruguay on my website at www.uruguaystamps.com If you want to see what nice Uruguay classic stamps look like, please visit. Since I´m fairly new with this, feedback is appreciated!
Regards
Mauro

November 25, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dave P
Ah, the red ones are scarlet pimpernels.

Class complete, time for Thanksgiving.

November 25, 2003 Matt Liebson

Dave P: get thee to a punnery.

November 25, 2003 Dave P

Flowers
Jim W-S
They are pretty, but rare, you have to know where to caecum.

November 25, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Roger
The English intestinal flowers are pretty !!

November 25, 2003 04:00 Jim Watson

Roger,
Nice pix! With another round tuit I should take some pictures of the flora and fauna here. We've been enjoying the large birds recently. Great blue herons, great white egrets, eagles, and wood storks have been visiting our pond this month.
 

November 25, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

November 25, 2003 Roger Heath

Revisiting the Garden
Yesterday -
Lavender hibiscus
Bird of Paradise, vertical
Bird of Paradise, horizontal
From the past -
Phoenix
San Xavier
English bowel of flowers

Roger
The philatelic message is posted on th eother Board.

November 24, 2003 nomad55

I have too much time on my hands......
I've been snooping and futzing around on ebay and discovered something very interesting.

If someone is using a hidden andale counter - screen says "thanks for looking" - click on the link for 'get counter stats' next to it. After the andale page loads, hit the back button to return to the auction listing, and....the number of hits is no longer hidden.

November 24, 2003 Trevor Perrons

Winter Weather
I suppose I spoke too soon. Mild weather and short-sleeves yesterday. Currently 2 degrees Celcius (35 F) with snow in Southern Ontario. Oh joy.

November 24, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Nice to see sellers doing the right thing.

November 24, 2003 Chip G <cgliedman-at-usa-dot-net>

Thanks
Just a quick not of thanks to Lawrence, Jim, Roger, Gary, Dave and whoever else I am forgetting. You all have given me some ideas (I will up the amount of philatelic discussion, redo the title page, and try to figure out how to make the Chaffee page clearer, among other things).
I am always interested in comments, should anyone else have any, about the exhibit, as it is something new for me.
Thanks again.
Chip
Heyday of Phonography - Draft exhibit

November 24, 2003 David Benson

I found this coment from Randy,

October 30, 2003 Randy Shoemaker

I for one only know US. However, from lots listed on our SCW group, I can see others are watching Germany and other European countries. I'll see if I can get you some more info on that. I really can't say others specialties at this point. I only consider US lots listed.

-Randy Shoemaker
 

November 24, 2003 David Benson

Jim W. I think it was mentioned by Randy Shoemaker when he made his appearance.

David B.

November 24, 2003 Richard W

APS questions
Jim W - Thanks!! I must admit, I can't recall the origin of the 6 out of 8 count. But I'm sure David B will remember?

November 24, 2003 Rob Faux

64
Bill C & John@Magnolia I'm not sure how one can tell from that scan anything about the color - or is it my monitor - the scan is so low quality, I've got lines through it?

And, I'm not sure where they get 1865 for that that date - looks like the top of the fourth number is rounded?

Still, I agree with John that it isn't a good gamble at all. :P

Rob

November 24, 2003 Matt Liebson

Jim: yes indeed. I have a few hand-carried items right up at the front of my exhibit. I don't really need more but the steamboat address is a neat touch. Unfortunately seller never says where Benedict's family lived, though I presume Cincy.

November 24, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Just kidding matt.
I think that this may be more in your line.

November 24, 2003 Matt Liebson

Jim: wow. That's pretty unimpressive (except for the wide gap between that listing and reality).

November 24, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Matt
I'll return the favor.
Tee hee !!

November 24, 2003 Matt Liebson

John: if you can escape Buffalo on Saturday consider taking the drive down to Columbus OH for the Worthington club show -- 2nd best show in Ohio behind the March Party.

November 24, 2003 11.37 a.m. John@MagnoliaStamps

Bill Claghorn
Yes that late usage is odd!That particular stamp appears to have bleached,Look at the paper,see how white it is.as crisp as the color appears you would think that that postmark would be be darker too,but its not.It too looks washed or faded but the paper is clean and white. I'll give it a F for Fake...
Now it is time to go to work again.So its off to see the Wizard,and head off to Buffalo N.Y. wher I'll probably be stranded for the holiday...So everyone here in the U.S. enjoy your Thanksgiving dinner and remember those who are less fortunate,and lets all be grateful for what we have and enjoy..
John in Ms. Headed for N.Y.

November 24, 2003 nomad55

771
Matt...there's another one here

November 24, 2003 Matt Liebson

Jim: we are apparently getting that same cold air this afternoon (I raked leaves in short sleeves yesterday).


Making this philatelic, sure was glad to catch this. You don't see these on cover much at all. Have a customer who has been looking for this for years and will be happy, happy, happy.
 

November 24, 2003 Trevor Perrons

Cold Air
Jim -- you can keep the cold front for a while longer. It has been very mild in Southern Ontario these last few days. I wore short sleeves to work this weekend (although I was the only one who did). Aaahhhh, refreshing.

November 24, 2003 nomad55

Jim Watson
I just finished reading your list of aps questions.
Well done.
We lurkers anxiously await the responses.

November 24, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Too cute matt,
I prefer the ones that depict terror !!
Will Canada come and take their cold air back, I can't function below freezing.

November 24, 2003 06:20 Jim Watson

eBay-APS Questions
Here's that link:

eBay - APS Workshop

November 24, 2003 06:18 Jim Watson

Richard W.,
I've tried to accommodate your questions by updates to Questions regarding the treatment of forgeries, etc.: by adding a new question 8, and to Questions regarding resources: by expanding question 1 regarding the Stamp Community Watchgroup.
Incidentally, I do not remember any facts regarding the breadth of the qualifications of the SCW. The only fact I saw was that only 6 of the 8 were members of the APS. That cannot be interpreted that the philatelic qualifications of 6 of the 8 are limited to the United States. I have only seen the skepticism expressed on the chatboards. Do you have a citation which might be used to support the skepticism?

November 24, 2003 Matt Liebson

Jim W-S: Volcano alert, cute albeit philatelic.

November 24, 2003 06:00 Bill Claghorn http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

What gets me is this #64 used in 1865. Pretty late usage, eh?

November 24, 2003 04:25 Jim Watson

There is also a cover from Madagascar to India in 1949.
 

November 24, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

November 24, 2003 David Benson

Christo, The Indian Experimentals are reliefs, cancel used provisionally whilst awaiting new cancels or used whilst cancel was away being repaired. I have never seen a list and doubt if many have been tied as they would have been used in more than 1 PO.

Huge field but very little interest unless it was used extraterritorially.


David B.

November 24, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Jim W-S: Pleasure, hope there is something of use in there. The next pile is getting bigger again. There is also nothing more I can add to your description re the organ!


Roger H: Thanks for the link. Nice bulls-eys, but too many remnants of the wavy machine cancels on there! I am very particular!.


Matthias: I saw your post re the Hanau cancel. Thanks. Just forgot to acknowledge it.

David B: Sometimes it does pay to go through these innocent looking albums!

November 24, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the Day 26
I am off to the field today to monitor a drill hole, but will be back late on Tuesday. I will probably file Tuesdays cancels only late that day. For todays cancels of the day we have:

Transvaal/ZAR, target cancel 33, which corresponds (according to the list David B directed me to) to a postal agency called Luneburg. I need to check on the rarity of this cancel.

Transvaal (Johannesburg ZAR, 25/3/1896)

Italy (Loana, Savona, 10/6/1933)

India – an interesting cancel in that it states Experimental, , R-4, 15/9/1903 . I am missing the last few syllables after Experimental, the first one could either be an H or R. Anybody David B ?? know what this is?. I found it in an old album I was cleaning out over the weekend.
 

November 24, 2003 David Benson

Richard, the problem is that it appears there have been 2 people allocated to handle all queries on any non US item. I haven't got a clkue as to how many that may be but most probably would be in the thousands per week. A simple division of expertise would be

1. British Commonwealth.
2. Europe.
3. Asia.
4. South & Central America.

Even a minimum of 4 should be able to handle these even allowing for classical to post WWII where most of the queries would fall under.

British Commonwealth should need about 3 or 4 for the major areas and Europe possibly up to 10 for the major collecting areas. It doesn't need much commonsense to see that 2 ain't enough and that is why it is being ignored because they don't have the work force.

David B.
 

November 24, 2003 David Benson

Richard, that is what almost everyone thought and that is why the APS has to answer some questions as to what their role is in the uncaveating emptoring of the stamp category,

David B.

November 24, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Forgeries from scans
Roger and David - That's exactly the point. I don't consider myself an expert in forgery detection from scans (who is?), which is why I only point out items that are obvious and don't need physical inspection. If I can do it, so can actual experts. So far, the items I've attempted to turn into ebay have been items that are being sold as "bogus" or "cinderellas" (fancy names for forgery) with clear scans of both the front, as well as the back and NO indelible handstamp. This is exactly the type of thing I figured the handstamp rule was intended.

November 23, 2003 John Forsyth

How about this one?? :)
125 pen cancel?

November 23, 2003 David Benson

Christo, exactly what it looks like, nice find. Cats. 200 Pounds used in the latest Gibbons.

David B.

November 23, 2003 Dave Elsmore Queensland <dave1@bigpond.net.au>

Dave

November 23, 2003 Christo van Zyl

David B: I found this Northern Rhodesia, KG VI, 11/2 penny red stamp in an old schoolboy-type album last night. It appears to have the Tickbird Flaw. Before I get too excited, would you be able to confirm that it is actually that flaw??

November 23, 2003 11.33 p.m.c.d.t. John@magnoliaStamps

Micheal Walters
I looked at that one and wondered the same thing.Since it has no pearls on the side I wonder what one would pass it off as.I have several that I'm still trying to identify myself..Well I think I won't worry with them anymore,I'm about to send about 25k in early u.s. classics to Alison and let her auction them off.Unless someone else wants them first.I think I have a home in advance for the #1 @ $40% and the hi value columbians @ 15% of c.v. so I'll se what happens there,as for the rest of it who knows.I'm still torn over thinking about selling off the big U.S. collection or not.Decissions and more decissions.

November 23, 2003 John@ MagnoliaStamps

Collecting Canada
while I'm sitting here waiting to see what goes on next with the stamps that I have up for auction , hereI'm patiently working on finishing my Canadian collection,This has been a painstaking labor of love,that was started when I had surgery last Dec. with the help from Sneaky who sent me some of his extras to get me started,And of course bob in Wa. who sold me a few from his fathers collection.Right now I'm reprinting some of the pages and using the Hawig clear hingless mounts. Part 1 of the collection is in a white ace album to 1968 and is mostly all mint with the exception of a few used in the early years.Part 2 is all mint and on scott pages in a Leather Linder album.The pages had extra holes punched so that they would fit the album.
 

November 23, 2003 Michael Walter

John@MagnoliaStamps
John, what do you think of the estimated $500.00 value on this? I wonder why this one was not trimmed LOL.

November 23, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Micheal W.
I thought so!Now who's going to report it? Like it would do any good!

November 23, 2003 Michael Walter

John@MagnoliaStamps /64
Not a chance!!!!!

November 23, 2003 19:24 Eric

Chicagopex
Just returned from Chicagopex in time to watch the Chiefs pull one out at the last second against the hated Raiders. I enjoyed the show, the highlight being meeting the folks from StampChat for lunch, and getting a personal tour of the 5-frame Gold winner on Stamped Revenue Paper from the Spanish-American War Era. Congrats to Bob H., who had that s--- eating grin on his face all through lunch, too. Brian, sorry we missed you. It seemed to me that the show was very well attended, and the dealers I spoke with were very happy. I can also recommend traveling by train, if you have the time. The pace is slower and more relaxed, and you don’t get strip-searched before getting on.

Eric
 

November 23, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Warning, new paypal spoof.
Dear valued PayPal user,

It has come to our attention that your PayPal Billing Information
records are out of date. That requires you to update the Billing
Information. If you could please take 5-10 minutes out of your
online experience and update your billing records, you will not
run into any future problems with PayPal's online service.
However, failure to update your records will result in account
suspension.

etc.
Sheesh, don't these idiots ever give up?

November 23, 2003 David Benson

Roger & Richard, still waiting for someone to advise that they have noticed a non US item pulled,

David B.

November 23, 2003 Roger Heath

APS Pulling lots
Richard and David -
I've had the same experience with APS. When I saw a bunch of Strubles misidentified as the higher priced item, APS removed them very quickly after being made aware of the reasons. The difference I'm certain is that the stamps are available to inspect right there at APS headquarters. No scans to identify when one has the stamps in hand.

Roger

November 23, 2003 David Benson

Richard, I can't understand that, if someone has the expertise with the sales books why can't the same expertise be used on Ebay material. If you could tell from a scan, so should they be able to tell too.

David B.

November 23, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

John - Don't know about anyone else, but the APS has been very good at pulling forged Spanish stamps off their site, and correcting mis-id'd items that I've pointed out to them. Have had exactly 0 luck on ebay so far.

November 23, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Micheal Walters
Just for the heck of it here is 1 of 3 #64 from the guy in W.V. what do you think?

November 23, 2003 3:57 PM Rich Wong

Got to get going - It's nearly 8AM here in Hong Kong. I hate Mondays!!



 

November 23, 2003 Roger Heath

Cancels
Christo - Look here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2967182928&category=696

Roger

November 23, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Shucks Chris lookee what I found in a stockbook.

November 23, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Matt Liebson
Another thing about this so called historic collection is that J.C.Calhoun died in 1850 can you find one piece in this lot thats dated before then.(THIS IS A ONE TIME OPPORTUNITY TO OWN THIS PIECE OF HISTORY ONCE BELONGING TO A GREAT STATESMAN FROM OUR NATIONS PAST) Now that was taken from the speal from the add.and lets keep in mind that the album itself was printed in 1966 thats 116 years after he was buried.I think if the truth were to be told he had the calhoun covers and tossed them in with a ragged faulty album..

November 23, 2003 12.45 pm Colin Judd UK http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_stamps
 

Colin

November 23, 2003 John@ Magnolia Stamps

Error Correction
Micheal W.

Sorry that should have read a true #12 not #21 as written.


Sorry

November 23, 2003 John

Roger.
The A.P.S. can't even keep tabs on their own site.I can't say for certain but I do recall several posters here who had complaints about buying things off their site and later having large amounts of money charged to their accounts.I do recall that these same posters said that that was the only place that they had given their account numbers to.So how pray tell are they going to keep ebay clean if they can't control whats going on in their own back yard.Huh!!!!!

November 23, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Matt Liebson
This I believe is about the 3rd time I've seen that collection,It seems odd that a man could be collecting stamps years after he died.Fact of the matter is that 95% of that collection was collected after he was dead.Now how can this be!

Roger H.
typos are caused by the one hand being slower than the other thusly i's before e's and such silly errors as that are in my case just not paying attention..Or we can allways blame it on the faulty keyboard,Ha.Ha. I just can't help myself today.

November 23, 2003 David Benson

Roger, why does it have to go to the courts, I was under the opinion that the only reason that Ebay offloaded responsibility of verification of stamps to a Philatelic organisation was that the Philatelic organisation would have the expertise to tell if the item listed was genuine or not. It is only a philatelic verification and with the guidelines on the sale page that the item is verified by the seller as genuine should be enough to cancel the listing if the APS say otherwise.

David B.

November 23, 2003 Roger Heath

1st Choice
David B - The Ebay Chat Board of course. LOL

Richard W - A US Court is most likely to accept expert testimony on US stamps from APS witnesses, but the defense could claim the APS is not expert on non-US stamps, and that expertise is in other countries, as has been discussed on numerous occasions these chat boards.

Roger

November 23, 2003 David Benson

Richard, the logical items that come to mind are the Japanese dragons and Cherry Blossoms. There always have been plenty of forgeries listed and I am sure that one of the experts of non US is handling those. That leaves about 99.999% of all other non US to be handled by 1 person.

David B.

November 23, 2003 David Benson

Anyone know who was the 1st. choice instead of the APS,

David B.

November 23, 2003 Richard W

typo's
Talking of seeing or not seeing misspellings, for one split second there I thought Chip G's link read "The Heyday of Pornography" ...

November 23, 2003 Richard Warren

Jimbo - There's a key question for you, maybe. If the team does indeed include a couple of people who have expertise in non-US material, how come no one is aware of any reported auction in non-US material on the US site being pulled? Is that right, or have any such auctions been pulled? (Sorry if someone else has already raised that point.)

November 23, 2003 Roger Heath

Typos are killing me
Gees - I'm going through a phase wher I proffread my posts visually and everything looks OK, then I post and I see every single error. Is this a medical condiiton, am I reading so many mispelled paragraphs at school , that everythigns beginning to looko good? );>)
"Don't twist our arm, we won't twist yours."

Roger

November 23, 2003 Chip G <cgliedman-at-usa-dot-net> http://www.geocities.com/chipgliedman/phono/phonopages.html
 

Peer Review - Asking for comments on an exhibit
Well, I'm sure that everyone here knows how one thing leads to another. I had one cover that just cried out for a mate (or two, or three, or twenty). The result is something a bit different for me. I have put them together into a single frame exhibit that I will be showing at the Single Frame exhibition at the APS Winter Show in January (there is an exhibiting catagory in the US for Illustrated Mail, and this is where I am entering it). Before I go 'public' with it, I would appreciate anyone's comments pro or con. Feel free to post or email them to me. I am not afraid of some 'tough love,' so please let me know what's missing, what's good, what you think I should change, etc. Thanks for the help.

Chip G.

Draft Exhibit:The Heyday of Phonography - 1850-1900
 

November 23, 2003 Roger Heath

My Guess
I'm thinking out loud here
Since this is a venue, Ebay lawyers are taking the position that if items offered for sale can not be proven to be illegal in a court of law, then Ebay won't try to stop these items from being sold on Ebay. Caveat emptor has always been Ebay's motto, so you don't have to bid on an auction that you have authenticity questions.

APS is being brought in as expert witness in advance of any court case that might arise. The reason for US only, both APS and Ebay would or could be involved in a judicial seeting in the US, but probably not elsewhere.

I think the new Ebay policy could be - "Don't twist out arm, we won't twist yours."

Roger

November 23, 2003 David Benson

Richard, not a single item, maybe they exagerrated when they said they had 2 watchdogs on non US material.

David B.

November 23, 2003 Richard Warren

Following Roger's point, I've noticed that BLATANT Burma forgeries that I report (sometimes several times, when relisted) don't ever get pulled. despite being listed (by Argentinian sellers) on the US site, which brings them under APS surveillance. Does anyone know of anything non-US that has been pulled when reported?

November 23, 2003 David Benson

Roger, why do they need courtroom proof. Every seller on Ebay.US verifies that he is selling genuine stamps. The main sellers who list replicas, computer prints, whatever know that is incorrect and should get warnings to desist. If they continue, then zappo.

David B.

November 23, 2003 Roger Heath

Inverted Jenny
Advertising expense is my guess, it's getting close to the end of the year.
I wonder how many people are taking that scan and copying it to fill a hole in their albums, or print replicas for profit on Ebay.

If I read Pauls' interpretation of APS meeting, Ebay has sufficient ability to monitor replicas, but has brought in APS in an attempt to obtain legal courtroom proof of fraudulent sales of US stamps sold on Ebay. This seems very limited in scope and has very little to do with the prevention of world-wide forgeries and fakes being sold on Ebay.

If Paul is correct, the situation will be little different than the past 5 years, because the focus will not be on Ebay listing policy, but on "getting" individual sellers of modified classic US stamps. I wonder where George's data fell down legally. I guess he refused to buy the stamps!!

Roger


Roger

November 23, 2003 Richard W

I take your point about repeating the same question on illegals that Lamb has already answered, albeit unsatisfactorily. But I think it would be helpful to maintain some pressure in this area by including a question about illegals, maybe on the lines you suggest. I'll see if I can think of something more specific (and brief) that could be useful to ask.

November 23, 2003 Richard Warren

Bavid B - There are two APS dealer members selling illegals on Ebay that I know of. Feigenbaum (Stampdile) and Long beach Philatelics (somebody Lawrence, if I reacll right). I emailed their names, APS numbers and their auctions of Myanmar illegals to Bob Lamb, but he just pretended that he didn't understand the point I was making, and avoided answering it. But we persevere ...

November 23, 2003 Roger Heath

Ebay Board Resisting Post
Jim (Io) -
Here's what I tried to post to you on the other Board.

Jim -
Do not pay money yet for the 7.0 upgrade! Here is a quote from an extensive email discussion I am having with an Ebay person of the Ewatch US:

We are aware of a problem with Netscape 4.x giving blank search pages and are having it corrected.

Roger 
Quote marks are still a no-no.
This is my fourth try to post here.
And, here we go again, no apostrophes.
Now I am open again to someone explaining why this did not stick on Ebay.

November 23, 2003 Matt Liebson

John: hype indeed. And a pretty brutal looking collection.


C3a at $155,000....Siegel sold a very similar example (from an adjacent position, in fact) last year at $135,000. Zoellner example sold at $192,500, I think.....Posner pricing is probably about right for RETAIL but it does not seem to me that there are a lot of retail buyers for inverted Jennies on eBay right now. :)

November 23, 2003 Michael Walter

Perf. ex 2


 

November 23, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Pipes of Giant's organ seem pretty erect!!

November 23, 2003 Michael Walter

John@MagnoliaStamps
the seller dmlengyel1 has also been busy buying. I did a search of where these stamps might have come from. This and this were won by him last week. Trust me that I am with you in not trusting this seller because of past history.
 

November 23, 2003 Michael Walter

John@MagnoliaStamps
I also do not trust the seller that you linked to in W.V. On the #12. I think that this one WOULD probably get a good cert. The projections @ top, bottom and left are ample. Usually the projections @ top and bottom are cut into by the perfs. on the perforated issues. In his scan the margins seem to be well clear of the projections @top and bottom. I do not think that I will comment on the 8a as the scan is too small to see detail.

November 23, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Not Again
Caution to Roger do not link to this this but everyone may. I thought that this was sold not 3 months ago,as it was a topic of discusion.And now its back with the same B.S.hype The John Calhoun Collection. I wonder how many more times in the future we will see this lot being sold by the same dealer! K.L.do you have any wise ass comments on this one!what a joke.

November 23, 2003 Dave P

Can across this card of the Giant's Organ! No need for Anne to blush or David F to panic - might be of interest to our geologist friends.

November 23, 2003 Kevin

c3a
John....Because I make a reply to your statement of the C3a Im "falling out of the balcony"? or are you still upset that I was the 1st to tell you that "Atlanta Proofs" DO EXIST!? Come on...lets all get along here.
Since you made the comment on the c3a...I think the COMPLETE SHEET of 100 of #11 he is offering is UNIQUE! My opinion...Id rather have the sheet than the c3a. Oh well...I guess I better go back to the balcony. Kevin
 

November 23, 2003 Johm@MagnoliaStamps

Jeff Lindstedt

Lucky you,I have several 65s on cover.Now trick for you is to start a cancelation collection both on cover and off.There are so many neet cxl's on the #65 they make for good study and since they are fairly inexpencive they are fun to collect.
Good Luck

November 23, 2003 John

Kevin LaFrance
How odd that you should fall out of the balcony in the defencive mode.Are you one of his partners? I too have had dealings with him,so what,big deal!
The jest of the comment was how many bids will he get on the darn thing,Will you be bidding?Idoubt it.

November 23, 2003 Kevin LaFrance

c3a
john@magnoliastamps...As having many dealings with Gary Posner I dont think he gets "stuck" with anything he dont want to. He is a very well respected stamp dealer...his entire organization is well run.

November 23, 2003 Jeff Lindstedt

I know it's not uncommon, still, the patent-cancel on this 1863 US cover is a first for my collection.
Hope the enclosure is a nice bonus (nice letterhead).
 

November 23, 2003 7:54 Jeff Lindstedt

CHICAGOPEX
Paul..Looks like a cool crew!
Did you find any new additions for the collection?
Wish I could have been there. I'm stuck, now, with vacuuming wreath-needles out of the car.
Such is the price of fundraising.

It all goes to a good cause, and, since we sold so many, we get a break on Aaron's choir tuition. More money for covers!
Christmas presents for myself. Sometimes, you just have to do it.

November 23, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Look what has shown up again
With only a $155.000 opening bid, look here I wonder who on e-bay will win this one or will Posner be stuck with it.

November 23, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

cut off perfs
More odd looking stamps from our friend in W.V. like this #12 and this #8a now would anyone care to comment on what the odds are that either one of these stamps would get a good cert!

November 23, 2003 Teremce Hines

Terence Hines

November 23, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Micheal Walter
So much for cert's! from scans..

November 23, 2003 04:43 Jim Watson

There is also a cover from Danzig to the United States in 1929.

November 23, 2003 Victor Horadam <horadam1@airmail.net>

Paul: Nice picture. You guys don't look like the "over-the-hill gang", maybe there's hope yet for stamp collecting.

November 23, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

November 23, 2003 00.25 Knud-Erik Andersen

November 23, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Cancels of the Day 25
I have cheated a bit today, sorry. Due to the length of the first few stamps I could only fit three stamps in, so I decided to make it two rows (and more stamps). Anyway here are the cancels of the day. As usual, any comments would be appreciated:
Rhodesia and Nyassaland (Wankie, 27/71960) with time 4.00 pm) I think pro had a stamp with a Wankie PO cancel a while ago. If my memory serves me correct, the name has been changed to its native African form, which is Hwange.

Lesotho (Mokhotlong, 22/7/1974). I am not 100% certain, but in the bottom of the double ring the letters SAS?

Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur, 5/3/1971). Above date the letters 10-PG. I have assumed that MAC in the date line = March. Correct?

Transvaal (Waterval-Onder, 23/9/1902). This PO/town is located in the eastern parts of the old Transvaal Province, today Mpumalanga. The translation of Waterval-Onder (Afrikaans) is Lower or Bottom Waterfall. This town has a twin called Waterval-Boven (Upper Waterfall). The names are derived from the Elands River which falls over the Escarpment, and the towns are named with respect to their location above or below the waterfall. Historically a very interesting area. If you are interested , this site shows some pictures.

Transvaal (Constantia, 20/12/12). An example of a Cape Province PO cancel on a Transvaal Province stamp (i.e the so-called interprovince period following unification of South Africa).
New Zealand (Auckland, 21/3/190?) with time 3.45 pm

Transvaal (Tarkastad, 30/8/1912), cancelling device/teller B. Another example of usage during the interprovincial period. Tarkastad is a small town/PO in the eastern Cape/Karoo.
That’s all folks. Thanks for looking!
 

November 22, 2003 Marius

Just love the photo of the English fan. She looks happy enough. HERE

November 22, 2003 Bill Weiss

Mike W.
Don't feel bad about not knowing everything! It takes a lot of years until you know most of what comes up, and even then, there's always more to learn! Even most dealers don't know about these 1870s experimental proofs/essays and they weren't in Scott until a few years ago, so don't be hard on yourself. Once you see what ribbed paper really looks like on Continental Banknotes, you won't forget it, and next time you see something like it, you will remember and you will then recognize the real ribbed versus the experimental ribbed. Got to run.

November 22, 2003 Chris

Holy Mackeral it's cold out there
I went to the North Denver Stamp Bourse today.
Better than average group of dealers, including the very nice
Polish gentleman with the unbelievable Eastern European stuff for sale.

The bad part of all of this was that it is the first real snow storm of the season, and driving
was bad. I watched the guy behind me on the turnpike do a 180 and slide off the road
when he tried to change lanes too fast.

To make matters worse, I had to drive way down south to centennial airport to meet my BILs family that
flew in. It ended up being hours and hours of driving under bad conditions. I don't think I'll do any driving tomorrow.

Chris - lots of nice stamps to add to the inventory

November 22, 2003 Chris hot-pink-stamps.com
 

Program ideas
Thanks to all for the suggestions.
I have a list of them and will see what we can do.
I think I am also going to see if we can have some hands on programs.
I would love to find a member with a rolatector or signoscope that we could get
a demo of.

Chris - still gonna be a long year

November 22, 2003 Michael Walter

Bill Weiss
Yes, I got your email. Second time that has happened to me!! (an item turning out to be a proof or essay!!). I study and study the regularly issued stamps to gain as much knowlege as possible about the 19th century issues. For a long time now I have been putting off proofs and essays. Maybe its about time that I start!!!! Anyway, Thank you very much and I will send the 2 cent issue back to you as soon as I examine it.

November 22, 2003 paul laniosz

CHAT ROOM MEETING
here is a group picture of us today ,after lunch they are left to right ERIC/eldyc from kansas city , me , BOB from st. louis and EFS from chicago . BRIAN R. didnot show up ,we waited for him then headed over for lunch , had a pleasant talk over lunch , then a photo shot , then BOB H. treated us all to a private tour and explanation on his GOLD MEDAL exhibit . after a few more pictures we went seperate ways . a good group of guys PHILATELIC GANG .....paul

November 22, 2003 Bill Weiss

PINK (My favorite color!)
MIKE W; While the "E" stamp has the cert., the "C" stamp looks more pink than "E", which proves how difficult it is to expertize off of scans! Did you get the email I sent you about your "ribbed" paper?

November 22, 2003 Jeff Lindstedt

Michael W..As I said, beware the scans (and certification).
Certification is only an opinion.

November 22, 2003 Michael Walter

The scan in choice E is a certified #64 pink. If anyone is interested here is a great article about the stamp. The scan in the article is even a little better as a gauge of color. The real pink
 

November 22, 2003 paul laniosz

APS MEETING
NOIP------ here is a picture with JANET the president of the A.P.S. and me at the town hall meeting today,she and CHARLIE LAMB answered all the questions about e-bay ,more on that later JANET ... .paul

November 22, 2003 Michael Walter

Answer
Believe it or not the correct answer to the #64 quiz is :E. The stamp shown is certified.

November 22, 2003 David Benson

Rich, thanks, will do,

That was a shock about Clive being a member of the APS. The APS must get their act together and expel any member who wholesales imitation stamps.


David B.

November 22, 2003 John

micheal w
Looks to me like D.

November 22, 2003 Jeff Lindstedt

#64
Michael W..Maybe C. D maybe. The rest, #65s.
I don't know enough about the engraving of the stamps. I do have examples of the #64-#65 stamps on cover.
My opinion, with the possibility of scanner enhancment, is look out.

 

November 22, 2003 Roger Heath

On Topic and Off Tropic
Bob - Congratulations on the Gold. I'm looking a the pages and not counting the first pages witht he large cover, ar all those pages in your exhibit 8 1/2" x 11". For osme reason in the photo they look larger.

NOIP - It was a nice day here in Hawaii, so I took the camera on a stroll around the garden and thought you might like to see what is in bloom right now.
Cactus bowl
Succulent
Bird of Paradise 1
Bird of Paradise 2
Hybiscus 1
Hybiscus 2

It was just a quick trip so I didn't use the sunblock. );>)

Roger
 

November 22, 2003 Jeff Lindstedt

I extend Paul's congratulations to Bob Hohertz.

Wow, GREAT! Revenues are getting respect.
 

November 22, 2003 paul laniosz

CHICAGOPEX
CONGRADULATION to BOB HOHERTZ for winning a gold medal at chicagopex ,im sure we are all proud of him and his fine exhibit .OUR WINNER and his exhibit ......paul

November 22, 2003 Michael Walter

This is not a trick question. Only one of these stamps is a true #64!!!




 

November 22, 2003 Rich Wong

Jim W-s Thanks for the link to the illegals sites, etc. I've got to read through them. They refer to APS and other philatelic and dealer organizattions whose members peddle illegals. In the February issue of The American Philatelist, the APS magazine, I was disgusted to see that Clive Feigenbaum is admitted as a dealer member - (200093-D). I sent a protest E-mail to the APS. Of course, I got ZERO reply. These philatelic/dealer organizations really need to clean house, but that's been said for years.

November 22, 2003 Michael Walter

Anyone think that I should report this?
 

November 22, 2003 Roger Heath

Tad Joining Ebay Stamp Club
Please send me an email at rheath-at-kona-dot-net. I'll add you on to my list of updates. If Bill S is in the aucience this weekend, we need to figure out how to add all the new members names to our roster.

Roger

November 22, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Tad
second address should get a response from either Bill or Roger, if they are not too busy.

Christo
Thanks for stamps in todays mail.

David
I wish I could write that I wrote it.
Very insightful article into illegal stamps.

John
I'm used to slow mail, but two weeks to get there?
I've forgotten what I wrote, apart from basics.

Dave
I think we solidly agree that cover is not Kosher.

David
My wife makes food to take that will feed our entire family for a week every time we go to Armenian "luncheon".

November 22, 2003 Tad Mackie <tmackie at cox.net>

EUSC
Hello -

Can any one tell me how to sign up with the EUSC? I have tried several times at the two EUSC links I am aware of over the past several weeks, but I never receive a response. Either I am doing something wrong, or the club is not receiving/reading its emails, or perhaps my reputation has preceded me.

The links I have attempted are:

http://members.tripod.com/ebaystamp/


and

http://www.seymourfamily.com/eUSC/

Thanks in advance, Tad Mackie

November 22, 2003 Matthias Bock

Christo:
Just a little comment on your "Hanau" cancel of today.
This one is not (!) complete, but only the CDS part of a larger machine cancel. Usually, to the left of the small CDS was a short text or graphic, mostly postal advertising like "Benutzt die Luftpost" (use air mail services) or so.
See this item for such a cancel on a post card.

November 22, 2003 David Benson

It also gives a list of the wholesalers who are peddling the "labels" on Ebay. The have admitted they are not stamps and therefor are breaching the listing conditions on Ebay.US. There is no way that anyone can stop every illegal from Ebay but banning the wholesalers would be a good start.

David B.

November 22, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Pretty quiet on the board it seems like. Congrats to the English on winning the world rugby cup. Not everyday you win a game in the last seconds of extra time!


David P: I set myself up nicely there! However that doesn't count, I should have said letters immediately following q, not ending in q!
Also, thanks for you and Jim W-S re the Lombard Street cancel. Also noted the comments against Tony Ferreira. Hopefully he'll come back again. I have to check, but I think he is a dealer and a member of SAPDA (South African Philatelic Dealers Association), which have a code of conduct they have to ascribe to.

November 22, 2003 David Benson

Jim,

fantastic article on ilegals, wonder if anyone at the APS has seen it. I like the way that some of the culprit wholesalers describe their merchandise as LABELS and not STAMPS. That should be the impetus for the APS to make a decision.

David B.

November 22, 2003 Roger Heath

November 22, 2003 Victor Horadam <horadam1@airmail.net>

All, from sunny Dallas.

November 22, 2003 John@MagnoliaStamps

Dr. Prof.J.W.Stark
Jim.
I just recieved your letter in this mornings mail.Thanks!
That had to be the kindest thing that anyone has saide in quite awhile...

All is well here in the S.E.and t6he sun is shining so its off to the mall.Ms Sherri wants a new freeezer..

November 22, 2003 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

hinges
Paul - I was going through a dealers "inexpensive" albums (a nickel per stamp) and pulled out a bunch of Spain and Spanish colonies issues that had those greenish hinges on them. I'd never seen them before but I do remember how easily they came off the pages and how easily the hinges peeled from the stamp.

November 22, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Rich

Glad to see someone taking a stand against illegals.
A rather damning case against them is made here

Qintar is a unit of Albanian currency.

Worst place - being awoken in the middle of the night while sound asleep in sleeping bag on top of a minibus as the remnants of a hurricane are passing through, dumping 10 inches of rain on you.

November 22, 2003 paul laniosz

hinges
last week i found a packet of stamp hinges at the bottom of a large carton of stamps ,which was purchased two years ago. these are are 1000 universal stamp hinges made by HONOR-BILT ,this is the H.E.HARRIS CO. they are large and green in color ,they are like the DENNISON {i have one of the worlds largest supply }. the hinges are great very easy to remove and leaves a very small image on a gummed stamp .any one has or got any experience with them.....paul

November 22, 2003 03:55 Jim Watson

There is also an advertising cover from Jugoslavia to Germany in 1928. It was from a seller of bicycles and sewing machines.

November 22, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

November 22, 2003 01.48 Knud-Erik Andersen

November 22, 2003 David Benson

Rich, if you see any, just let one of the committee know, most probably you could recognise them easier.

p.s. If you run into Malcolm Hammersely or Mr. Kwan, give them my families regards,

David B.

November 22, 2003 12:10 AM Rich Wong

Illegal Stamps
David Benson - I'm in Hong Kong and I'll be going to the Expo. I'll see what happens. I wonder what guidelines the special patrol teams will use to check what are illegals. Maybe they can just weed out the fictitious countries, but it's a start. I can't see a team lugging a set of catalogues (which catalogues would they use?) or lists as they patrol.

Anyway, got to go. Back in about 6 hours to catch up.

November 22, 2003 Dave P

qu
Christo, where have you spent the last few years! How about Iraq! LOL
Seriously there are a number of examples where there has been a phonetic transcription from a non-Western script.
As for Qatar, all I can say is that it is the most miserable place I ever had the misfortune to visit (this was 20 years ago). Was even worse than Doncaster on a wet Wednesday evening.

November 22, 2003 Dave P

The confusion I alluded to in my first post was not directly related to the cover, but was concerning APS/Ebay and was answered by David B.
I have since noticed that this cover has been mentioned on this forum in a rather more accusing manner (nothing to do with me!). I would suggest that if you have other material from the same source you check it carefully.
 

November 22, 2003 David Benson

Richwong, at least they are on the ball, it has been decided that ni illegals are allowed to be sold at any FIP Exhibition but it is hard to police. I was asked to do an inspection in Korea last year which items were illegal and which ones weren't. It is easy when they are inscribed with fictitious names of countries but some stamps are impossible to know which were actually sold and which ones weren't. The numbering system doesn't count if the stamps were issues prior to it's inception. Countries like Equatorial Guinea, Cape Verde etc. have issued some multicoloured label like stamps with strange thematic designs to catch the attention of children but they were authorised.


If Hong Kong is actually going to be so strict and banish any standholders that even sell one illegal that is being draconian but it is the big fish that should get their marching orders when they are selling large quantities of them.

David B.

November 22, 2003 Christo van Zyl

November 21, 2003 Brian R

This is your chance to flaunt your mothers advice. Namely, get to meet strangers from the internet, that you've been talking to. Everyone is invited. :o)
 

November 21, 2003 Roger Heath

Busy Day
Jim -
Looking at the cover. Maybe it was carried out of mails on the Flying Scot by the conductor, one Mr Scotty McDougal. Actually I think you are trying to scare others away, because it looks like an "OI" to me.

Duncan -
Lotus heard those stamps are more valuable with a "Specimen" overprint, and he's hoping there is no competition. Then again may be for his personal collection of "Classic Done It Myself Forgeries". I know we'll hear form him on this!

Marius -
Can't think of the last time a sports writer quoted Shakespeare, and I'll probably die before I see it again. Thanks for the link.

Roger

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

After some serious googling, I will concede that there is a Pitt Street, boxed cancel for Edinburgh.
However, stamp still has English not Scottish, 1844+ numeral cancel.
And everything else written so far.

November 21, 2003 Marius

Footy
Article on the Poms which makes good reading.

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Tony
At my advancing age, I am not about to accuse anyone of having poor eyesight.
However, the "y" of penny appears to be partially covered by stamp and "ost" of Post appears to be about 3mm higher than "enny" of Penny.
Back markings are fine.
Closest I can come is Pitfield Street.

November 21, 2003 Marius

Footy
The time is nigh. The tension is in the air. Will the poms take a walloping or will they grind our face in it. I will be HERE tonight lapping up the excitement. Recommend to all our non Commonwealth friends to watch it although you may have to get up early. I hear that they are doing lock ins in New York bars because the game is on past the liquor serving permitted hours.




http://www.south-bank.net.au/ContentFrame.cfm?feMenuID=342

November 21, 2003 nomad55

And look who the high bidder is on the lot Duncan linked to.
A most familiar name, isn't it?

November 21, 2003 Jim Lawler

Jim L.

November 21, 2003 Richard Wong

Illegal Stamps
I recently sent the folowing E-mail to Hong Post Stamps regarding the Hong Kong 2004 Stamp (and now Coin) Stamp Expo to be held Jan 30 - Feb 3 :

Dear Sirs,

Sellers of ILLEGAL STAMPS

As you may be aware, stamp exhibitions worldwide have been plagued by booth holders who sell ILLEGAL STAMPS. These are labels printed in the name of numerous Asian, African, Baltic and other countries without their consent. They are sold at prices based on false currency values of the country they are supposed to represent. These stamps are colorful and represent many topics of appeal to beginning collectors. Has Hong Kong Post been able to screen out such dealers? In the booth contract, has a condition been included that does not allow the sale of these ILLEGAL STAMPS? The printers and sellers of ILLEGAL STAMPS make an obscene profit to the detriment of the collector and, especially to the country the stamps
are supposed to represent. How would Hong Kong like it if a booth holder sold their own designed Hong Kong stamps at HK$ face values? I dare say, it would stop it and sue the sellers, manufacturers, etc. The poor countries whose ILLEGAL STAMPS are being sold, have no manpower, funds, etc. to pursue such action.

This is the reply from Ms. Kathering Ng:

Thank you very much for your email dated 15 Nov.

HONG KONG 2004 Organizing Committee has a special team to do patrolling during Expo period at venue for checking that there is no false stamps to be sold. The suspects will be asked to leave the venue at once if any case is reported and the rules and regulations are also stated in the contract.
Thank you for your kind attention.

Yours sincerely,
Kathrine NG
Assistant Manager, Marketing
Stamp Exhibition

November 21, 2003 Duncan Doenitz

Gorch3 is back

Well that goofy seller who thought it was OK to make and sell mint US forgeries is back.

This time his offerings apparently have some kind of marking on the back, but darned if I know what he is actually describing. Maybe they are real Inverted Jennies and he has noted the position marks on the back, eh?

Check it out here and especially note the weird description of how the stamps are marked.

Without actually looking up the laws regarding these items, clearly adding any kind of marking to the back of counterfeit mint US stamps wouldn't comply with the laws or people could still use them for postage.

Jim Watson, the description in your document in preparation for the upcoming meeting says it best:

"3. Is there a "watch list" for sellers that have consistently had their auctions closed for violations of terms? Specifically, sellers who have had auctions closed by eBay for a listing infraction end up relisting within the following 1-2 weeks, committing either the exact same infraction or, more cleverly, a variation of the infraction. It requires diligent work by volunteers to once again report these auctions, which are often essentially relistings of the original lots. Are there, or shouldn't there be, penalties for consistently 'gaming' the process by these questionable sellers?"

Duncan

"Wifey can't complain about the toilet seat now, I pee in the sink."

November 21, 2003 Tony Ferreira

Jim W-S, on looking at the cover again, there is no postmark under the stamp. Stanley Gibbons Specialised Stamp Catalogue also states "These cancellations are of the straight line type (Penny Post marks) and were applied at the Penny Post receiving offices, usually on the envelope, the stamp then obliterated at the Head Office." Are there anybody out there that can confirm if Pitt Street had a Post Office or not and secondly has anybody seen a Penny Post mark used together with a 1844 type postmark? There are two back markings that seem fine, so I'm questioning why anyone would go through all the efford to forge the Penny Post mark?

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Tony
I think my last posting answered your questions.
Not accusing you of anything other than not looking closely at what you are selling.

Jimbo
You are probably politically correct.
It is possibly far too deep a question since several of the illegal sellers are APS members.
Obviously APS hasn't come to grips yet in reconciling ethics with membership fees.

November 21, 2003 David Benson

To all the Poms out there that were praying for a rainy day in Sydney, you got your wish. It will be muddy and may the best team (as long as they are Aussie) win,

David B.

November 21, 2003 14:30 Jim Watson

jimbo

November 21, 2003 12:19 am Tony Ferreira <fwc@uskonet.com>

Fakery comes in many forms
Question to Dave P, you refer to fakery and are confused because GB items are listed on US site. Could you please elaborate on the fakery and the confusion.
 

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Seeing as W-F's get more than their share of board coverage.
An explanation of Dave's earlier illustrated forgery.
Apart from the fact that the stamp obviously overlies the right half of the underlying cancel,
1) the font of Pitt Street is wrong for the 19th century.
2) As far as I am aware Pitt street never had a P.O.
3) There are, however, two Pitt street's in London.
4) It it highly unlike that a penny post cancel is going to appear on the same stamp as an 1844+ cancel.
5) stamp has been turned sideways in a foolish attempt to match underlying markings.
6) Second time Lombard Street has been featured, this time in earlier MX style cancel.

November 21, 2003 Richard Warren

APS Ebay & illegals
Jimbo - I second that from Jim W-S re illegals. I know what Bob L's current line on this is, but he is at variance with others on the APS Board who take it more seriously, and want to move faster on this than he does. I aim to post here, fairly soon, my considered rebuttal of his email to me on this subject, which I hope will help.

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Jimbo

Can I add "What is the eBay/APS policy on illegal stamps?"

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dang that's a pretty blatant forgery.

Got the Chadwick Ship Letters auction in yesterdays mail.
Out of 255 lots, one had a moveable box cancel.
It had an estimate of £100, I don't have the PR.

November 21, 2003 David Benson

Dave P, yes, any items on the US site from anywhere in the world are covered by the APS.

David B.

November 21, 2003 Dave P

Ooops lost the link, try again

November 21, 2003 David Benson

Jim, I hope all of the questions receive answers then everyone will know what is going on instead of being in the dark. Very well written and politely phrased, I hope the answers are as well,

David B.

November 21, 2003 Dave P

Fakery comes in many forms, but this one is pretty poor. South African seller listing GB item on US site, I am confused, is this one for APS?

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

BTW Christo, if your cancel had been eight days earlier, you would have had the coronation of Edward VII.

November 21, 2003 Jeff Lindstedt

Paul..Wife and son are fine, thanks for asking.
I wish I could be at CHICAGOPEX this weekend. I hate to miss a free lunch!

We have to pick up and distribute a bunch of Christmas wreaths we sold for a fundraiser for the boys choir Aaron sings with.

How goes the world-wide collection?
I picked up this Rockford cover.
It is a new cancel for me, plus, I like the company name.
 

November 21, 2003 06:57 Jim Watson

eBay - APS Workshop Questions
Reminder!
I've updated the draft of the questions for the upcoming eBay - APS Workshop. I've included comments from posters and made some editorial changes to enhance the words (at least, I hope they do). I will appreciate any inputs you have.
 

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Duh Dave,
a mind block on my part.
And followed closely by Threadneedle St. B.O.

November 21, 2003 Dave P

Lombard St
Christo/Jim EC = East Central, one of the London divisions which each acted as a separate "Post Town" for mail circulation purposes. Still forms the first part of the modern post-code for the area. A Branch Office was an important office, one stage below District Office. Lombard Street (serving the financial area of the City of London) was the most important branch office and handled more mail than the head offices of many small towns.

November 21, 2003 Jim Whitford-Stark

Christo

Lombard Street Branch Office, E.C. = East City.
DT is time stamp or cancel/day stamp

November 21, 2003 Victor Horadam <horadam1@airmail.net>

All, from overcast Dallas.

November 21, 2003 03:51 Jim Watson

There is also an update of a cover from Gabon to France in 1927.

November 20, 2003 C Turner

one more time
Perf test

November 20, 2003 C Turner

Bill C.
I just did the perf test, it lines up perfect EXCEPT, the corner perforations on the top seem to be angled. Check out the image here:

Perf test

November 20, 2003 Christo van Zyl

Four early Japan stamps, two with fancy/cork cancellations, and two with CDS type with native script (are these called koban cancels??

Great Britain (Lombard Street B.O. E. C., 4/7/1902). For me one of the nicest cancels I have in my book. Some help with all the various abbreviations in the CDS would be welcome!
 

November 20, 2003 paul laniosz /stamp12345

OLD FRIEND
JEFF---CABLEGUY ....... hey buddy nice to see you posting again,how is the wife and son , missed you around the chat room , are you going to the CHICAGOPEX this weekend , a few people are going to be there , bob is coming from st. louis , sure whould be nice to have you come by on saturday at noon at the U.S. post office counter , lunch is on me ....paul

November 20, 2003 C Turner

Bill
Thanks for the reply. Maybe a perforated proof? The paper was really soft, the stamp almost would bend holding it with tongs. I remember I soaked off a hinge and it made that light stain on the top right.

This was from a stock of stamps I bought from Germany. That seller tried to sell me a fake Scott 241 and got all huffy when I told him it was faux. Thankfully I got a refund on that one.

When I sold the stamp, I advertised it as #63 ultramarine with no gum and it brought $150 which I thought was fair.

November 20, 2003 20:51 Bill Claghorn http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

As far as the spacing goes, it could be a wing margin stamp reperfed. It would be interesting to do a Srail test comparing the rigth hand perfs with the left hand perfs.

November 20, 2003 Bill Weiss

#102 Reissue
This is a very difficult stamp to evaluate from a scan - here's why;

1. The color is definately wrong for a reissue....BUT
2, The margins are way too big to be a #63 - possible but improbable. The 1861 issue plates were spaced 2mm apart while the 1875 reissue plates were spaced 3mm apart, which accounts for the normally bigger margins of the reissues.

So there are two conflicting pieces of evidence. Further, if a #63, that color is also rare on #63, although certainly not as rare as a reissue. I do NOT think it should be reported to APS because they will not be able to tell from the scan any more than I can if it is or is not a reissue. What I WOULD suggest is that you contact the winning bidder and gently inquire if they plan on seeking expertization for this stamp, which you can point out, does not catalog $700. as stated, but really $425. if without gum, and with gum is surely regummed since you sold it to the seller without gum. Between your inquiry about expertization and the alert of miscataloging or regumming, the buyer should think twice about plunking down their money.

November 20, 2003 C Turner

sorry, here is the link:
Link here
 

November 20, 2003 C Turner

Scott 102 reissue? I think not
I sold this stamp to this fellow a few months ago. The paper is very soft and there is no gum. The stamp did have a brighter paper but not that much different than a regular Scott 63. Also, Scott does not show an ultramarine variety for 102.

Comments? Seems that it should be reported.

 

November 20, 2003 Jeff Lindstedt

Pro..If they have good Chicago hot dogs there (which I doubt), I suggest you give your professor a "free frank", canceled with mustard, relish, pickle, onions and sport peppers (no celery salt or tomatoes for me).

Congratulations! May Legolas be always at your back.

November 20, 2003 Jeff Lindstedt

Club topics
Chris in Boulder..As a past President of an online Stampclub, I can tell you picking monthly topics is tough.
If you know the interests of the members, at first pick topics that, at least, most can marginally relate to.
After the first few, you can get an idea what will engender discussion.
Plus, hey, you have twelve months, throw in a holiday theme.

Also, how about a Europe, or Asia, or Dead Countries, or South America, or Middle East or etc, nights.
Even if now, a person doesn't collect what they started out with, I bet at one time, most began collecting foreign (non-USA) stamps.