StampChat Archives

Archive:  February 16 - 29, 2004

• Last updated:  20 March 2004

February 29, 2004 9:44 pm Bob in WA

So he was indeed in Germany even though his family had gone to Switzerland at some point. Probably after 1939 I'd guess. He had a place in Garmisch but it isn't clear when he moved to that location and from where. I'd check a library for a thorough bio and also the entry in Grove's Dictionary. What city is it to, and what is the message?

February 29, 2004 David Benson

Lavar,

this one any use to you, nothing special to me and overpriced anyway,

the only redeeming feature is the addressee and the destination.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2991055189&category=3514

David B.

February 29, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Oops. reverse .

February 29, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Postal History
Good evening/day to all. Today's featured item of postal history focuses on Germans interned in the US during WWI. This card was mailed from Hot Springs, NC on July 30, 1918 to Bremen, Germany. Because the mail was sent by an Internee, no postage was necessary. The card is marked "Interned Camp", and "Censored, US Department of Justice, Hot Springs, NC." There is an additional US censor marking at the upper right, along with a German marking indicating that no postage was needed. Hot Springs is where several thousand Germans from German Merchant ships were interned, the ships having been located in New York when WWI broke out. There is a message in German at the left. The reverse is quite interesting, showing a picture of some of the Germans interned in Hot Springs. The card was sent by Bernhard Vierich to his wife. I have not yet had a chance to see if I can locate from which ship Herr Vierich came.

February 29, 2004 Jim (jaywild)

This lot didn’t stay pulled for long. Here is a link to an image of the stamp.

February 29, 2004 Anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of leaping across the years, DeCoppettating razor cancels, and a healthy EUSC.

February 29, 2004 Roger Heath

DeCoppet
Knud-Erik,
Thanks for all those scans. As as been mentioned before, some stamps collectors have waaay to much free time. );>)
These cancels went to all first class post officesstarting in 1903 and by 1964 over 10,000 had been made by Guller the manufacturer. I'm being very picky in that I'm looking for the new style used either the same day or for another service on the same day/week as razor cancels I have. It will be nice to have them from the main district post offices. Thoough I'm still undecided. The whole consept of starting over on teh exhibit is a daunting task, but I know it is the right thing to do. Looking for additional material simultaneously just adds t the confusion. As you can see there are a many choices and I'm probably going to use a couple of very special covers that I haven't seen yet. I must keep in mind that one or two covers will demonstrate my point, and that the exhibit is about razor cancelers.

Thans again for your efforts. Roger

February 29, 2004 Matt Liebson

better late than never, leaper. (1840 and from Ohio, of course).

Bob in WA: was going through some purchases from the weekend show in Toledo; among the buys was a postcard mailed from the 1939-40 New York World's Fair to Germany. Just noticed that the address was Richard Strauss. Though I suppose not THAT Strauss, but it still gave me pause. (how would I figure out where Strauss resided in May 1939?)

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Paul
I don't have functions, fourth from left is "go".

February 29, 2004 02:14 CET Paul B.

Jim W-S "Functions" - fourth from the left at top - then "Accounts".

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

I give up, how does one edit "outlook" to get to your email site?

February 29, 2004 15:25 Bjorn Munch

Feedback
Bob in WA, nah that wouldn't work. The bad guys can then avoid getting negative feedback simply by not giving feedback. Or maybe only positive feedback would be held, while negative or neutral goes straight through.
 

February 29, 2004 prometheus

Varies
Face it "just a venue "works

Roger H - If KE's Great links did not satisfy your Lust for De Coppett
I have some also.

Feb 29 Thanks all who posted those scans, Leapers are one of my little fetishes ,
I have been looking at some of mine and it's either post a hundred links or None so None it is, I like them all exactly the same amount.

Almost went with a Doane But it really is not my fav.



 

February 29, 2004 13.53 K.E. Andersen

February 29, 2004 13.51 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 29, 2004 David Benson

Richard, I know that there isn't in most parts of the world, that is why I asked the question to an American Auctioneer if he has ever had any offered for sale and what was his reply. I know what the reply would be to anyone here who walked into an Auction and asked for a valuation and would they put the " stamps " in one of their sales. They would say, throw them all in a box with $100 of real stamps and we will list it a $100.

David B.

February 29, 2004 Richard Warren

Anyone know anything about labels issued by/for the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine? In a dealer's rummage box yesterday I found, for a few pence, a nice 1968 cover from Jordan with a strip of three labels (from a sheetlet of ten, I think) with views and marked "PFLP", tied by a Jordan cancel. On the back is a pair of labels (not tied, unfortunately) marked "PDFPL" with a nice picture of an AK-47 wielding guerrilla fighter. (Equates to Peoples' Democratic Front for Palestinian Liberation ???) Ken L - you should be proud of me ..

February 29, 2004 almost 1 pm Bob in WA

Feedback -- I used to think that the seller should post feedback upon receiving payment and prompt and intelligent communication, but I have to admit that with possible chargebacks it is prudent to wait. If he receives cash or the check clears, then he still should not have to wait for the buyer's feedback, but because some buyers can still be jerks, the practice of "retaliatory feedback" has sprung up. Still, when sellers state they will only give feedback after first receiving the buyer's, it rubs me the wrong way. Maybe eBay should start a system where feedbacks on a given lot are kept hidden until both have been posted, then released simultaneously. You can't see the other's until you post yours, and if you don't give, you don't get! A chance to respond would still be available, of course. Well, it's an idea!

February 29, 2004 21:53 CET Paul B.

Jim W-S Well, thank you. I thought there was more to it. Well, that's how it goes when one hasn't got the time. I'll work on it from here. Thank you again.

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Paul
Download from
http://users.wirelessfrontier.net/~jlwstark/page.xls

February 29, 2004 David Benson

strange Negative feedback on one of the resellers of Addies replicas,

Other lady buyers beware, unwanted pornographic material sent with lot.

David B.

February 29, 2004 Roger Heath

Snipe Lesson (cont.)
Another reason one shouldn't place a high bid one hour prior auction close.

Roger


 

February 29, 2004 21:40 CET Paul B.

Excel job
Jim W-S Basically yes. The four lines below the bold line I'm going to copy down the page.
Dave F You may delete the posts of this excel job thread to your convenience.
Jim W Thanks for your offer. I'll be back to you via e-mail when this little job is done.

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

I'm in.
Do you just want 4 column table?

February 29, 2004 21:27 CET Paul B.

Whitford. Please confirm.

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Downloaded but it's password protected.

February 29, 2004 Roger Heath

Razors
New razors here, a nice pair on the same card, which only proves that each post office was testing these cancellers where it saw fit.

A few such as this were modified after WWI and used for a couple of years. This Chur device survived and was modified later and used in 1935 for one day!

It was recently suggested I obtain examples of the post razor contract. These two, which I like, show the pre and post WWI design which were manufactured according to deCoppet's patents. Now to find a couple up to 1964.

Roger
 

February 29, 2004 21:20 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

February 29, 2004 Jim Watson

Excel
Paul,
As I noted, I'll take a try. E-mail me a copy of .pdf file. I've got Acrobat Reader 6.0.

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

3.01 and 3.02
I may have to download and get back to you since I have to go out in a while.

February 29, 2004 21:09 CET Paul B.

Excel job
Jim W-S What version of Acrobat? I'm about to save the scan.

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Yep, have acrobat

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Paul
Sorry for slow reply took a shower, yep I can access ftp to my site.
What do you need in excel?
I can read emails, but not yet on computer with excel.
Sounds dumb, huh.

February 29, 2004 20:40 CET Paul B.

Excel job
Jim W-S have you got Adobe Acrobat installed? I will scan a .pdf file for you to see. Please let me know and I will upload the file for you to download in a time window of 5 minutes. After that the file is deleted from server. If you don't have Adobe Acrobat I'll upload the acrobat execute file for you to download, or find the download link at the Adobe website.

February 29, 2004 20:31 CET Paul B.

Excel job
Jim W-S Or even better... You can send me a mail with link utilizing this on-line form.

February 29, 2004 20:28 CET Paul B.

Excel job
Jim W-S Thanks for your offer. Do you have ftp access to your domain? You could upload file to server for download. I will scan sample for you to see. I could also let you access a portal I've got where you could post link to download. Do you have access to e-mail later?

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Paul
I would help but currently my excel is on computer I can't read emails on.

February 29, 2004 Anne

eusc
Marius: I agree that keeping ebay in the name is important. Whatever credibility we are perceived to have as a group comes from that.

Charging dues is a plus/minus thing. They would have to be pretty nominal, considering the benefits of membership (friendship, meetings, help with questions) are available free. There are other options for fundraising--namely auctions to benefit the EUSC. Remember the old days Presidential commemorative issues? Just think of what someone with a good graphics program could do with Paolo and Italian stamps. How about Roger on a surfboard? There are lots of possibilities, ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous

Having a representative at the APS meetings is important--we've seen that from Ken's comments. My preference would be Jimbo, who laid the groundwork so well. But we could also draw on other members who are planning to go the the shows anyway. (also there's no reason why we can't have more than one person there). But we do need to increase our presence. BTW, whatver happened to the EUSC nametags that ccmouse created?

Archives: I've long been an advocate of having the EUSC meetings archived for future reference. In a world in which perception is reality, this give an additional boost of credibility--we have a history worthy of preserving. How about ammending the constitution to add the position of Archivist as an appointed (volunteered) position?

I'm going to double post this here and on the ebay board.

February 29, 2004 19:43 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Excel job
A&S Anyone of you who could help me to compose an Excel spreadsheet? Just need to do a template I can recycle.

February 29, 2004 Roger Heath

Snipe Technique
Bob in Wa -
I wrote last week about my snipe philosophy in placing snipes in the upper half of the dollar scale. Even though both these snipers follow the technique, the odd one cent works less frequently these days. I know this isn't a perfect example but it shows that the bidder won by placing a bid in the upper half of the scale.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws3/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=2989588116

Roger

February 29, 2004 Richard Warren

Visited London Stampex, Philatex and a Burma PS meeting yesterday, and enjoyed myself. Bought a couple of bits. One dealer put a copy of their list in the bag. Browsing it later, I noticed one offer - a quantity of GB rather ominously described as "generally sound, perhaps odd perf faults". (Only £995.) Would you have confidence with that description? It was marketed as a "Great Britain Internet lot" - "an ideal lot for internet sales". Say no more ..

February 29, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Marius
You make some good points.
The vast majority of us, however, have full-time jobs which are not directly related to philately.
I think, as George has demonstrated and I have direct knowledge, to prove an effective case against questionable practices by certain eBay sellers, requires a great deal of time.
Many of us also have spouses and children who would perhaps question our sanity in devoting energy toward what may seem to be a quixotic quest.
I think, rather than having a Donald Trump - like President, the incoming President should be one who has the ability to listen objectively and to communicate in a calm and collected manner, the concerns of the members.

Personally, I have no problems with a membership fee, nor with making a donation for our APS representative to attend the APS meeting, especialy if it is Jimbo and he has no problem in assuming such a role.

February 29, 2004 06:48 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Knud-Erik,
Thanks for the your sharp eyes on the Beirut cover. The use of the "/" in 20/2 confused me. Thanks, too, for catching my typo. Life is a history of rewrite.

February 29, 2004 Dave P

Thank you for your explanation - simple when you know! I just had it in my mind that an airmail item might have been flown direct, highly unlikely when I think about it!

February 29, 2004 05.47 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 29, 2004 05.40 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 29, 2004 05.35 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 29, 2004 05:28 Jim Watson

My second item is a registered cover which has markings from the German Post Offices in Beirut and Jaffa in 1907. I haven't written it up as I'm confused by the date differences on the three cancels. It looks like it was sent on February 29. It looks like it was received on February 22. It also looks like there is a second Beirut cancel dated NOV 2. I'm puzzled.

February 29, 2004 Dave P

WW2 censor question
Showing my ignorance again. This 1943 registered letter from UK to Switzerland picked up the usual UK civilian censor tape, but on the reverse it also has German censor tape. I don't see how this got into the hands of the Germans, nor why it was then allowed to be forwarded (total transit time was 20 days judging by the Geneva receiver). Am I missing something here? It might help if I knew what "Geoffnet" meant! If it is not clear in the scan, the small writing over the Nazi insignia reads "OberCommando der der Wehrmacht".

February 29, 2004 Marius

Sorry that post took up so much space. I did it in front page.
 

February 29, 2004 Marius <stampmad@bigpond.net.au>

February 29, 2004 Lavar Taylor

February 29
February 29 figures prominently in the Pirates of Penzance. Frederick, who was mistakenly apprenticed by his hard of hearing nursemaid (she was told to apprentice him to a pilot, not a pirate)to a band of pirates until he reached age 21, thinks he is about to be freed from his apprenticeship as his 21st year approaches. He is then reminded that the apprenticeship lasts until his 21st birthday and that, since he was born on February 29, he is technically a five year old boy and will not be freed from his apprenticeship for many years.

February 28, 2004 Brian R

Yep, that adds a whole new dimension to the term, "water hazard". LOL!!

February 28, 2004 David K.

A rare post:
As a seller on eBay it occurred to me when a buyer who purchased a horde of Indian Head pennies from me some 4 years ago and gave negative feedback because they said that there were no pictures of Indians on them that eBay had no brains to allow this to stay on my record and no Squaretrade to work with then. I gave up! Other than a court action for removal, it stays. Any negative feedback past 90 days cannot be retraced for a valid email address since eBay blocks all attempts to secure one; another brainless policy as Squaretrade requires this for removal. Ebay is just an advertising formatted business under California law and NOT an auction company. Their lack of concern over so many padded bidders raising their own bids with other 'ID's' especially when the bidder is 'Private,' allows for all sorts of illegal activity. One such seller from Columbia has 4 other US seller names! I won a lot in New York, got an email from Florida and the item was shipped from Columbia via a confirming email from Columbia. Does eBay care? Forget it! When I see a top seller on eBay reaching 3 to 5 Million dollars a month selling foreign specialized sport cars; you think they care about a $25.00 stamp? eBay has learned that even as HP sells 'new' computers, which may or may not have remanufactured parts as quoted in their warranty, if they can waylay the issue, it goes away.

I found this board only 6 months ago and have enjoyed it as have many enjoyed miniputt. Checking it almost daily to read how microscopically, even the slightest detail of a poor stamp and its framing can raise the eyebrows of a dozen or more elders here! What an addiction. I am thankful for my piano and fine art collection. Stamps only enhance the long cold nights and warm that inner fire as minature pieces of art to enjoy. But I refuse to have them take over my life as short as it is. There are far greater unseen challanges if one is open to them.
The most exciting recent discovery of the 5 parallel dimensions interacting and held together with the vibrating rubber band theory.
The production of a harmonic tone with a piano that has no key to be identifed with.
And, last of all, peace when Shiloh comes.

Thank you Dave, for this board, know that this family will be missed.

February 28, 2004 nomad55

Happy Leap Day
This cover travelled from Charleston via Jacksonville (Florida) on its way to Kansas City, where it was received on March 2nd.

I don't think there are too many CE1 leap day uses in existence.

February 28, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

My favorite aunt was born on February 29th.
At the time of her death, may she rest in peace, she had just celebrated her 20th birthdate.

February 28, 2004 Mike E

29th February
My leap year
cover of the day. A bit more modern than most of you collect, but a nice
inverted dial (very unusual on this machine) on an uncommon Washington
DC American Postal Machine Company cancel.

February 28, 2004 6:56pm PST Sheryll <sheryll at sheryll dot net> http://www.sheryll.net
 

29th February
Seeing it is more than half over here, I thought I'd show a 29 February cover. From Vila to London via Sydney, it shows that airmail used to cost a pretty penny back in 1936! Coincidentally, the wife of a New Hebrides colleague of mine used to work for the shoe company to which the letter is addressed.

John F. - Great to see you here. Hoping to catch up with you in Canberra.

Sheryll

February 28, 2004 prometheus

More stuff new

Paquebot

Airmail-Tied

Shermack

3c-Intead-of-2c

2c-insteadof-1c

a-cancelled-precancel

Later-flag

BBL

 

February 28, 2004 Bill Weiss

Feedback
I am not as experienced of a seller on eBay as many board members, but I absolutely agree 100% with Dana K's post. Why in the world would anyone want to leave feedback BEFORE a transaction is fully completed? I note sellers who state that they will not leave feedback before the buyer leaves it, and to me, this is absolutely a fraudulent practice by the seller - it amounts to a veiled threat - "either you leave me positive feedback, or else" is how it sounds to me, and it's bull. No buyer should feel threatened into leaving feedback until he/she is 100% satisfied with the sale, then it's time to leave feedback, not before.
The eBay feedback system is flawed, but basically sound, considering the magnitude of the venue, I don't know of any other way for parties to gain the confidence of the other parties without such a system. It is flawed in the respect thast negative feedback can be left without recourse against someone who hasn't really done anything wrong.
We gained our first and only negative from a jerk seller who returned our check because we didn't mark the item number on the check - as though it's OUR job to keep track of his sales - then when we returned the check with the item number marked, he held the check for two weeks before shipping the lot (worth $12.). When we poste feedback, we were kind and posted a neutral, but noted the uncalled for delay, so he then retaliated with a negative, stating it was our fault for not following simple instructions. While he may have been technically correct, what moron would leave a negative feedback to someone who has over 600 positives simply because they failed to mark a check with an item number - for a $12. item? That's obviously a flawed system!

February 28, 2004 prometheus

D.Benson
Thnaks for the Heads Up on the Tin Can Mail, I had never seen one before thought it was neat, Not that neat but neat.

February 28, 2004 David Benson

Promo, re. Tin Can Mail, they forgot the decimal point, should have been $ 9.50, most are worth less than that,

David B.

February 28, 2004 17:36 Dana Krueger

Dana

February 28, 2004 Chris

The Kalevala
I read the Kalevala in college. (My minor was folklore.)
It reads very well in English translation and has stirring
tales of Lemminkäinen, the man with the far roving mind, and his
battles with the witch Louhi. There are also tales of the poet Väinämöinen. I recommend it highly.

(Kipling also reads out loud very well.)

Chris - not the Island Ahti

February 28, 2004 8:16 on the west coast of the east coast prometheus <prometheus@1internetdrive.com>

Good day to all
TIN CAN MAIL
Saw a first day cover TIN CAN MAIL kinda neat looking $ 95 bucks,
1938- 3 - stamps comm Queen somebody .
Is the Price too High ??

aalso looked at some nice used CGH Triangles But the prices were beyond my Range right now 10 different of the first 15.
Not cheap at all.

Looked at many nice stamps today. Most I could get on the bay cheaper ( if I wanted loose ones )
But as usual I went into the postcard boxes and spent a few dollars Scans in a few.

 

February 28, 2004 Brian R

We'll get report buttons, right quickly too, on all current auctions.

February 28, 2004 John Forsyth

Jim W
Jim, You might get a ADSL router instead of the cheapest DSL modem. Mine is a D-Link DSL-504. That way u dont have to fool with "internet sharing", you just plug in whichever computer you want without concern to whether the "main" pooter is on and connected. The routers arent that much more. And a simple Ethernet card if needed is a pittance and easy to install. As someone said, by the time you add up the second phone line etc,most places you can get broadband for about the same.

February 28, 2004 Terence Hines

Terence Hines

February 28, 2004 Mauro Mowszowicz

Internet sharing
Jim WS, there are several ways of sharing an internet connection
a)- 2 machines hooked to the same DSL modem/router
b)- 1 Machine directly connected (does not matter if it is dialup, DSL, cable, etc) acting as a proxy master or server and x machines as clients hooked to the main computer by network adapters
if you need any help you can email me directly
Mauro

February 28, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Brian
If it's real and valuable, send to Bill W and we'll split the proceeds.
:-Þ

February 28, 2004 Brian R

Jim W/S
Thank you, If its real and valuable, I'll send back.

I recently scraped the dial-up for a DSL. Dumping both the second line and AOL, its significantly cheaper with DSL. Not to mention speedy. Currently, have both of the computers (PC and laptop via wireless) running on one line. No problems noted yet, even when both the wife and I are simultaniously surfing. Still haven't hooked up the fax/scanner/copier. Turns out I need some cables that will require getting off my arse to go purchase. Someday.

February 28, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Thanks Bill C.
If I understand it correctly, I only need a crossover cable for connecting the two computers.
In that case I would not need an ethernet connection?
If thats a IEEE 1394, I don't have one anyway.

Brian
The promised "stamps" went in todays mail.
Sorry I was a bit slow in getting them out.

Battling headwinds all the way to PO today.
Met my friend who's running for County Judge on the way.
Fortunately I can't vote, since the current County Judge who is seeking re-election, is also a friend.

February 28, 2004 Chris B

Internet Connection Sharing
Jim W-S, the best solution for phone line hookup is a DSL connection to one computer and the internet connection sharing network link to the second computer. This allows use of the phone while computers are online and multiple computers with online access. Connection speed is quite good, but not as fast as a cable modem setup. The cost for DSL is competitive with the price of maintaining a second phone line where I am.

I don't believe simple dialup will work with a line-splitter. You can use ICS with simple dial-up as Bill suggested.

February 28, 2004 11:35 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

Internet Connection Sharing
Jim Make that Ethernet Hub. You can also use a crossover cable if you only want to connect two computers.

February 28, 2004 11:33 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

Internet Connection Sharing
Jim On a PC you need to turn on Internet Connection sharing and use an internet hub. I do not know about a Mac.

February 28, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

OK, my turn for a dumb question.
If I get a phone line adapter so I have two lines connected, can I run the internet on two computers at the same time i.e. does the computer I don't use to access my ISP know that it is online, or do I need to activate the modem in it?

February 28, 2004 David Benson

Some of the Post Offices here in shopping centres are now open Sunday mornings and the sorting/cancelling machines at the Mail Exchange branches keep on working 24/7.

p.s. it's already the 29th.

David B.

February 28, 2004 Brian R

jeeez.....
Something tels me I'd be a pretty crappy chess player.
I can't think ahead more than one move. :o(
Thanks, Jim W/S for the much needed reality check.

February 28, 2004 Dave P

29th Feb
In the UK of course, we can get Sunday posting dates :)

February 28, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Er, Brian,
it's also a Sunday.
No mail.

February 28, 2004 Brian R

leap year
I just realized that tommorow is Febuary 29th! Are we going to send each other postcards, trying hard to make them look non-philatelic, so as they'll be considered valid postal history someday?

February 28, 2004 Duncan Doenitz

Hello John

Is that Magnolia John? If so, hey man its nice to see you back.

About the bad dollars... they were identified as counterfeits in the eBay sales. However that does not make them legal at all. The coins category is being flooded with these fakes by sellers from Hong Kong and Singapore. Check it out for yourself, then look at some of the buyers and see if they are selling coins as well as buying. You can find some of the same scarce dates seeded in bulk lots they offer, and you can't tell from a scan if they are counterfeit or real. After all, the scan looked good to you, right?

One seller even offered a "mixed lot" of counterfeit and real coins without identifying which ones were real. Trust me, its much worse in the ebay Coins category than it is in stamps.

Dunc

February 28, 2004 09:03 Bjorn Munch

Bottom perfs
Anne: the perfs are normal, what you see is part of the cancel. If you look at the pattern, you'll see that there *should* be black spots right where you think you see bad holes. If you look closely, you can even see small specks of yellow within the black.
 

February 28, 2004 04:43 Jim Watson

My second item is a registered airmail cover from Finland to China in 1935. It has a complete set of the commemoratives issued to honor the centenary of the publication of "Kalevala," the Finnish national epic.

February 28, 2004 John Forsyth

Hi Sheryll
Good to see you!

February 28, 2004 2:46am PST Sheryll <sheryll at sheryll dot net> http://www.sheryll.net/
 

Richard R - I appreciate your kind comments and advice. I will keep it in mind when I am in Canberra for the show and sorting out my store of philatelic "stuff" there. As you say, I shouldn't rush into these things.....
Meanwhile, I have put my New Hebrides exhibit on my website with the others. Whatever happens, I will at least have scans of some beautiful things!

As do many others who have posted or just lurk, I enjoy dropping in on this board regularly - to keep up with the latest events and also, as Paul Bi remarked, because my friends are here. 8-)

Sheryll

February 28, 2004 Dave P

One allied problem, I (like many on this board) give feedback when payment is received. This means that if there is a fraudulent chegeback I cannot even leave a negative, should I change my procedure?

February 27, 2004 22:55 Dave F. (moderator)

In the middle of a conference, so just a short message to acknowledge the posts and emails. I hope to be catching up soon.

Many, many thanks to those who have taken the time to write something kind either here or in an email.

I was not planning to have to be away so much right after making that announcement. Sorry to not be following up yet.

February 27, 2004 Anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of winning the lottery, spending the money on stamps, and having a great time doing it!

February 27, 2004 David Benson

Mike, just for your info, they were fake coins, difficult to tell from a scan but the weight is only a fraction of the genuine. The seller was most probably booted because Ebay is more worried about fake coins than stamps. They should use the same criteria for stamp fakery as they do for coins.

David B.

February 27, 2004 Mike Spano

Dear John....
John: I am one to usually hold my tongue, but in this case I can't help but ask. Did you buy some of these coins? Are you affiliated with the people selling them? Do you yourself, or have you been accused of selling questionable items? I can't think of any other reason that you would ask a legitimate question, then follow it up with a futile attempt at belligerent vulgarism.


Think about it for a second. What if a child or grandchild knew there was a particular expensive stamp or coin that you wanted really bad, and decided to get it for you. Only to find out after giving it to you that it was a forgery, and that they blew all their hard earned money on it? How would you feel?


People say "Collector beware", but it is not always collectors doing the buying, so I am extremely glad that there are individuals willing to freely give up time to report such questionable behavior. Not only does Ebay ask collectors to help police their site, but stock holders and fellow collectors alike have also asked this to be done.

I do not wish to inflict judgement or sour feelings, but only to open your eyes on why it is done. I would not turn my back on a questionable activity in my neighborhood, and I would no less turn my back on a questionable auction of any sort, stamp related or not.

The person that you asked the question to is probably doing just as you stated, taking care of real life affairs, instead of sitting on a chat site, aimlessly awaiting an answer to a question so skillfully worded.

February 27, 2004 David Benson

Anne, can't answer that one, there are a lot of scarce items there that would be heavily bid on if listed on singles. Even that Gallipoli cds. is an item that should be on it's own, not mentioning some of the scarce multiples and tete-beches. It should hit around $15,000 and would form the basis of a top quality collection. Can't see much wrong with it, only a few problem items, looks like the owner was careful in his/her acquisitions.

David B.

David B.

February 27, 2004 Anne

BTW, the stamp I linked to is not one of mine--although I have some equally iffy examples in my own collection. From what I've seen, a good 40 % of those first issues look to be reperfs.

February 27, 2004 Anne

David, I saw that collection you liked to yesterday. Not only must I save my piasters for that one, but I'd probably have to throw in my firstborn and the dogs. That's one powerful assemblage. I wonder why it's being auctioned off as one lot and not cherrypicked.

February 27, 2004 David Benson

Anne, you should be saving your Piastres for this one,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2990227060&category=3491

some nice material,

David B.

February 27, 2004 David Benson

Anne, I am not 100% sure that the appearance of holes at the base are actually holes and may be part of a cancel. Scan of the reverse will make it certain what it is.

David B.

 

February 27, 2004 David Benson

Anne, looks suspicious, possibly a scan of the reverse may help although I doubt it. I would say someone has tried to improve it and failed.


David B.

February 27, 2004 john

still waiting
still waiting to find out whats fake about the coins or is someone to busy sticking their nose in where it should not be.Its odd how some people have nothing better to do than to worry about somebody else is doing!As in that case. Or how a certain few seem to think that they have to patrol every auction page to see who is selling what.Gee Whiz fellas get a life.

February 27, 2004 john

anne
as a matter of fact there are ways that can happen.I call it a hard pulled perf.I have seen many like this where the paper was weak and pulled out like that when the stamps were not seperated properly.But on the other hand somebody could have done that on purpose.

February 27, 2004 Anne

Dumb question time: What's with the bottom perfs on this one? I haven't checked out the stamp proper as yet, but I've seen similar oddities of perforation before. Aside from a sewing machine slip up, any way this could happen legitimately? Thanks.

February 27, 2004 Mike Spano <twrmike@hereintown.net>

oops
Forgot my email address in the last one. It's there for you now.

February 27, 2004 john

duncan d.
so whats fake about them?

February 27, 2004 8:02pm Mike Spano

Help With The site?
DAVE F: Please look for an email from me. I would like to help if I can. If you do not get the email, please email me and talk with me. I am a Philatelist and a coder, so I just may be able to help.


Hello everybody..

February 27, 2004 George Lipscomb

Gawg

February 27, 2004 Bill Weiss

I AM SADDENED!
I have been away for several days chasing down consignments for auction, so I have obviously misssed a lot of important and emotional postings. I am extremely sad to learn of this board's demise, or at least of DAVE'S decision to quit. Since I have had in the past, some private conversations with Dave, I believe I clearly understand how he feels about what's been happening over the last months, and I am very sympathetic to his plight. Dave is a great guy. He has done us all a huge favor by carrying on this board as he has. I view the job he's done as one filled with personal courage in the face of much adversity. I don't want to overstate this, but I think we are all extremely grateful to you, Dave, and wish you well.
I will support a "StampChat II" board as much as I can. I notice a post below by Anne Sell regarding PayPal, and I just want her to know that if this board doesn't respond to her very much, it's NOT because the boards members don't care, but I think given the developement with Dave's decision, that most board members are preoccupied with that subject.

February 27, 2004 Duncan Doenitz

Some good news

For a change, here's some good news in the fight against fraud on eBay.

It happened in their Coins category, not Stamps, but the seller of these items has been NARU'ed. Due to the complete lack of any two way communication with eBay, it is difficult to know what precipitated the seller's demise, but I know I was not alone in reporting the bogus items. The seller was apparently in Singapore and eBay had been providing a storefront for the sale of counterfeit US coins. Hundreds if not thousands of them on eBay by just this one seller.

With Bill Weiss' advice in mind (that officials won't even bother to respond unless the problem reaches a certain dollar amount threshold) in reporting to people like the US Treasury Dept I've begun pointing out that the longer they wait the worse the problem becomes. I also point out that Canada takes a much more proactive stance which is obviously working quite well, and that eBay is a huge marketplace with copycat bad sellers jumping in when they see an opening.

Somehow, the system worked. Now, where's the cold beer?

Dunc

"I know, there are already more sellers of the same bogus items. They are next on my list."

February 27, 2004 David Benson

Ken, thanks, I presumed that would be the way they would be sold, mixed in with large quantities of cheap stamps, destined for packet material.

David B.

February 27, 2004 Ken Lawrence

David B

It's a testimonial to the triviality of the illegals problem that I had to search quite a few auction catalogs before I found a sample lot for you:

TOPICALS. LARGE WORLDWIDE ACCUMULATION. Thousands of mint & cto stamps & souvenir sheets in seven thick stock books and four large cartons. French colonies, South & Central America, Pacific Islands, Caribbean, Eastern Europe, many in sets. Non-Scott includes Arabian area, Sanda, Russian area locals, cinderellas, fantasies. Topics include Birds, Insects, Flowers, Religion, Sports, Trains, many more. Duplication. Great approval stock! E.C.V. $4,000-5,000.

February 27, 2004 Anne Sell <OLDESTAMPS@INFOBLVD.NET>

Taking Pay Pal Payments
WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING* EBAY STAMP DEALERS: I sent a Stamp insured to an ebay buyer who is also a seller, and he claimed the did not receive it. He has found the Pay Pal loophole that if there is no Delivery Confirmation, Postal Insurance does not matter. He will not sign Postal Insurance claim form, we are out. We cannot collect the insurance because he will not sign the claim form, Pay Pal is deducting the money from our account because there is no delivery confirmation number. In checking his feedback, we are not the first people this has happened to. We are now not taking Pay Pal anymore. I spent 45 minutes on the phone with Pay Pal, and they do not care. That is their rule. No delivery confirmation, they will take the money back. End of story. This could have been a Registered Package for $5,000.00, it does not matter. If there is no Delivery Confirmation, Pay Pal is on their side, and they will take back the money he paid. I want to warn everyone of this.

February 27, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Richard W

Thanks. If you gave Helen sufficient information, that should get the process started. If not, she may need to send you the forms.

February 27, 2004 Mauro Mowszowicz

Paolo B, Knud E.
A reply has been posted already to the Trieste question... let me know if you need a translation to English

Regards
Mauro

February 27, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Bill C
Maybe I should bid, just to see what the "buyer" thought the item was worth.

February 27, 2004 15:03 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

Iran Stamp
Jim The shipping on that minimum catalog stamp is $2.50.

February 27, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

It makes you wonder when a newbie bids twice on a stamp catalogued at 15¢.
Described as The monetary unit of Iran
was changed to Rial in 1952 which suggest to me that this is pre 1952. Young Shah with uniform, Mountain in the backgroud
and airplane in the sky.
It seems seller specializes in female clothing and knows nothing about stamps and "buyer" knows even less.

February 27, 2004 14:00 Jim Watson

February 27, 2004 Richard Warren

Just for the record ... Ken, I mention this without rancour or meaning to point-score: one of the APS illegals sellers I was moaning about previously is back on eBay with Myanmar items on which I can cite chapter and verse. On the grounds that these are misrepresented, and on none other, Helen Bruno now has an email from me (dropped your name in!), which I hope she'll treat as an "official" complaint, though I'll be perfectly happy to put it on paper if need be. It was only a matter of waiting for the opportunity.

February 27, 2004 1:18 pm Bob in WA

PPIE

The 1915 Pan-Pacific enthusiast (sorry--Alzheimers is kicking in, can't remember who) should find THIS site very interesting.

February 27, 2004 David Benson

Chris, Paul (Quokka) may know about it than me but there was a collector in Canberra who displayed ancient items that had been carried by messengers, Babylonian tablets etc. He has now passed on, but I don't know what happened to his collection.

David B.

February 27, 2004 Paolo Bagaglia <bagaglia "at" wanadoo "dot" nl>

Question posted
Hi Knud-Erik
I just put in your questions in that threaded forum, introducing a new topic which can be seen
here

Greetings, Paolo

February 27, 2004 Chris

Atlantis
Hmm, would it be wrong to print up Atlantis stamps
and souvenir sheets and sell them? How about a 1 framer on
postal history of Atlantis, including receiving marks?

There must have been actual, if irregular, postal service to
Santorini before the blowup, as there was lively trade all around
the Med. (And trade implies the equivalent of commercial mail
saying something like "Send 10 amphora of olive oil to Athens by
next ship on our account" that keeps the wheels of commerce flowing.)
If you bought a classical era baked mud tablet could you include it
in an exhibit?

On a side note, has anyone ever exhibited stuff from the Dawk?
(This is the courier post in rural India that dates back to the Roman
era.)

Chris - loves classical Greece

February 27, 2004 nomad55

Here's the key statement from the article linked to:

"This case highlights an important lesson for consumers who buy art, collectibles or antiques. Do your homework and beware of a deal that sounds too good to be true."
 

February 27, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Maldives stamp

February 27, 2004 Brian McInturff

John G there was an segment on one of the News shows on TV the other night on this same subject. All 3 antique stores they went in were trying to pass off fakes. People want to jump right in and spend there money without doing any homework.Makes you wander. Maybe that's why I try to build a relationship before dropping any serious cash.

February 27, 2004 07.37 John Gordon <johnr@castlemoyle.com> http://www.marianstamps.com
 

Several topics
Dave F
First off, thanks for the fine job you've done moderating and running this board! I'll echo lots of comments that this is usually my first or second stop each day. Hopefully you'll be able to come up with enough volunteers to keep the board going.

As sort of a reminder that the philatelic/stamp world isn't the only one with "dodgy" sellers here's (hopefully) a link to a newspaper article about fraud in the antiques business. Reads a lot like fraud in our hobby.

I received the latest Scott Monthly yesterday.
The "Catalogue Column" talks about listing, not listing, and unlisting stamps that are illegals.

Several pages later is an article about getting the necessity of getting certificates on early U.S. definitives by Ken Lawrence.

Then there's an article "Stamps as History" that is illustrated with a souvenir sheet from the Maldives featuring Atlantis that has what appears to be a volcano in the background.

John

February 27, 2004 05:02 Jim Watson

My second item is a cover from Indo-China to India in 1934. That's an uncommon pair of source and destination.

February 27, 2004 Richard Reynolds <rick99@verizon.net>

Legal Rights & Legal Help for OnLine Sites
Here is a good site for anyone that is being threatened for OnLine comments.
http://www.chillingeffects.org/

February 27, 2004 Richard Reynolds <rick99@verizon.net>

Board
Dave F
I usually just lurk around every A.M. and read the posts and only contribute when I think I have something to say. Well here it is. Thanks for all your hard work and I am sad to see the board go. As an old time board modarator back when there was just bulletin boards around I took a lot of guff and heartache, especially when I was paying for the extra phone lines. But you did great and gave everyone a venue to have a voice. Kudo's Dave.

Shyerrl
If you love the hobby, you are going to be so sick when you sell all your collections once it's gone you can't get it back, my suggestion just keep your favorite and sell the rest or don't sell any and stay, keep us company on here if it still exists after a month or two.

February 27, 2004 23:10 Bjorn Munch

StampChat
Dave F., thanks for all the work you've done in mainitaining this board. I will miss it, though I most admit I have at times skipped over the very long and wordy discussions here.
 

February 26, 2004 Roger Heath

Greek card
Knud-Erik,
Thanks for the Greek card, it arrived today. Left Denmark Feb23, arrived Hawaii Feb26. Much better than a recent 5 weeks from Switzerland (non-Home Security route).

I invite everyone here to look through there Swiss cards and covers between April and December 1903. The cancel I'm presently seaching for is the same design as the Zurich receiver. It's called the fleuron design and was adopted by the Swiss PO after deCoppet signed his contract with the Swiss PO to supply 10,000 cancellers. The contract was signed and I have no idea when the first fleuron canceller was delivered to a Swiss PO. I assume it was one of the major ones such as seen on this card.

Roger



 

February 26, 2004 Anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of fruitful discussions, a new and equally good chatboard, and a more peaceful life for Dave.

February 26, 2004 20:25 Bill Claghorn http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p
 

Stamp Chat
Dave F. Thank you for your efforts. Let me know how I can help.

February 26, 2004 19:56 Dave F. (moderator)

Just on briefly for the moment.

I did not mean to kill off all discussion on here in the meantime.

The whole point is to develop an orderly transition to an even better board that better serves the online philatelic community.

And, yes, Bob in Wa., there's at least 5 weeks on here, and the archives can stay. In fact, at some time, they may be able to be converted over to whatever the new format is, hopefully with the enhancements that have been suggested.

There are several key people who are travelling or are out of the country right now, so that's one reason to keep the discussion on this subject open for a while.

In the meantime, Prometheus and Mike E.: thanks for the philatelic subject matter. Others: Please continue on with that.

Or golf!

February 26, 2004 Mike E

Pro,
The Machine Cancel Society published a monograph a few years ago on 'flats' like you just showed. Actually rather interesting to some of us machine folks, but they are hell to display!

February 26, 2004 prometheus

In the mail today
I got this GIANT machine cancel
ST.LOUIS

 

February 26, 2004 Anne

I can help moderate too, but don't want total responsibility. But what I can do, I will.

February 26, 2004 02.19 pm Colin Judd http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_Japan_stamps
 

Colin

February 26, 2004 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

February 26, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

windmill hole:
Place ball at front right corner of mat.
Aim at left side hole, pulling club back to edge of screen.
Works every time for me.
It goes through hole, hits left bank, top bank, back of windmill and then in hole.

February 26, 2004 Jim (jaywild)

Wrong category of the day here. Just don’t use that thing on your stamps, lady

February 26, 2004 1:33 pm Bob in WA

I still wish there was a way to practice one hole without having to go through the whole game each time. Obviously taking notes and refining each try must be what results in 18s! I've been lazy and still have not gotten even into the 20s. My best score for each hole adds to 21, with 2 still my best on holes 8, 10, and 18.

February 26, 2004 Anne

Off to catch up with what's happening

February 26, 2004 1:23 pm Bob in WA

Dave, thank you, thank you, thank you! My hat is off to you.

February 26, 2004 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

February 26, 2004 1:10 pm Bob in WA

light diversion -- golf

If I may interrupt the serious tone for a minute-- I just had a strange thing happen in the miniature golf. On hole #11, somehow the ball got into the indent at left center, where the par and hole # signs are! I'm caught in the rough and can't get back to the fairway! It still presents an invisible barrier to exiting at the left onto the whole screen, but the ball just bounces around within this small rectangle, sometimes stopping hidden underneath the signs! After 2 or 3 dozen shots I had to just close the window. Anybody else ever have this happen? I had placed the ball at bottom center of the tee area, straight above the hole, and hit first shot at about NE direction, and it happened on that first shot.

February 26, 2004 Richard Frajola

David F For the record, you know that I support whatever you may decide regarding the fate of this board. It has been an extremely valuable addition to philately.

February 26, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Dave - Sorry to see this edition of Stamp Chat go, but I understand your concerns.

As far as a new board goes, I would whole heartedly also support a means to register user names, in order to keep riff-raff out.

February 26, 2004 11:33 Dave F. (moderator)

Time constraints mean that I'm going to have to chip away at a response, rather than write a "super-post" that addresses all the points.

experts: I quickly want to clear up any misinterpretation of my remarks about the experts who contacted me privately. First, those comments did not come from individuals who have been active and present on the board for at least the last month or two. Second, they essentially said that if I was no longer willing to allow questionable auctions to be linked and discussion about questionable sellers, then they didn't see that it was worth their time to either contribute to or even check in on the board. In responses, I specifically explained my concerns about liability, but that was not persuasive. I was disheartened to think that they would only come back if I jeopardized my and my family's financial position.

criteria for a new board: I strongly believe that a new board should be registered on a server that does not reside in the US, and that whoever registers it also not live in the US. Moreover, that person (or persons), I reluctantly add, should not, in my opinion, be a member of the APS, as any perceived grievance by an APS member can be the grounds for a complaint against the person in charge of the board. I was threatened with this on several occasions, and it's one of the reasons I have not yet decided to renew my membership for 2004. It just makes things simpler if the people who decide what does and doesn't stay on the board are not subject to this avenue of redress.

I would also suggest that the non-US country also be one where it is not easy to serve legal papers, and, ideally, where there is not an extradition treaty. Better yet if those person or persons in charge do not or do not plan to visit the US.

I'm not trying to be melodramatic in saying this, but I do think it correctly addresses some of the issues that should factor in to such a decision, and is grounded in experience.

why now?: For the moment, I will say that it was simply too discouraging, and essentially the last straw, to see remarks made elsewhere that there was no difference between this board and the eBay board. If that's the case, then why I have wasted 10 - 30 hours/week on this and exposed myself to such risks? And then to suggest my reaction to these remarks was because of a political bias was just the final insult. I will also add that I and others requested that this board be added to the Yellow Boxes, and that was never done. I'm not sure if there was any political motivation in that. I hope it was an inadvertent oversight.

threaded/unthreaded: This is a really important but, I think, highly nuanced, consideration. My thinking on this has evolved over time, and it's too important for me not to have the time to address it properly.

So more on this and other topics later.

February 26, 2004 Paul B, David F

If you need some help with the tech. administration (and co-moderation) let me know, i have not much spare time but think i can squeeze a few hours per week.

Mauro

February 26, 2004 David Benson

Dave P,

sorry to see you go and possibly an offshore moderator may be the best idea for the Chat to continue without legal threats.

Lavar,

The Sudan Campaign cover that Jimbo is showing is to the same addressee as the Afghan War cover that you have.

David B.

February 26, 2004 19:01 CET Paul B.

A&S Well, I've been actively programming some code together and created something that perhaps will satisfy all parties. I've mailed Dave the link to give him the chance of seing whether I could tempt him to not give up - but merely enlargen the team.

February 26, 2004 paul laniosz

thanks again for a job well done , if your around chicago ,lunch or supper is on me .now starting the asphalt work early due to a phone that never stops ringing for jobs or estimates........paul

February 26, 2004 Rob Faux

Paul B I've always thought you did a fine job presenting yourself on these boards. I'd be happy to see you run the tech side of a new iteration of this board.
Paul B & Dave F If there would be a group of people who would be willing to serve as 'moderators,' I will participate. I will NOT do what Dave has done. He and I are too much alike and I'm afraid I would also burn out rapidly and allow it to infect me with too much negativity. Dave you did well and I believe this will lead to something else that will move forward to even better things.
Sherryl Nice to see you post here! I am sorry to hear that you are contemplating (have decided?) to get out of the hobby. I hope it wasn't the negativity, etc that lead to this? Obviously, a hobby is supposed to bring relaxation and enjoyment - if it no longer does that, it is time to step away. I can only hope that you will return again. :)
Knud-Erik I have always enjoyed reading your posts. I, like you, post less often than I once did. I am more of an introvert anyway (is THAT why I teach?).

Rob

February 26, 2004 Charles L. Williams

Dave F....
Ditto on the kudos for all your efforts. Pax vobiscum.

February 26, 2004 Terry Putnam <thputnam at Yahoo Dot Com>

Dave, I also want to say how much I have enjoyed this board.

Although I have seldom posted anything here, it is the first board that I check in the morning,(right after email) and frequently also the last one at night.

It's unfortunate that some feel the need to resort to threats and bully tactics, but I guess that's life in the modern world, and faced with that I would do the same as you (probably a long time ago).

Terry

February 26, 2004 Chris

One Thing I Forgot To Mention
I forgot to say thanks to all the board members here and on
the eBay board. When I started reading that board 4 years ago
(right at the inauguration of iomoon as EUSC prez) I knew nothing
about stamp collecting. I have learned a lot in those years and
found out how much there is to know. Thanks to the stamp boards
I have avoided many rip offs that I would have walked right in to.
I deeply hope that something similar to these chat boards is set
up. I hope to keep learning about collecting for the rest of my life.
I also hold many of the posters in these boards in the highest
personal regard.

Chris - 25,000 plus stamps added to my albums since I started reading the chat boards

February 26, 2004 Brian R

Whatever the outcome, Thank You Dave, for all that you've done.

February 26, 2004 14:33 CET Paul B.

Jim W. Didn't answer your question posted previously. Yes, it is possible to create a website for your "Today in Postal History" series based on the format presented by me in previous posts on this chat board. I wouldn't mind creating such pages for you according to a calendar and a country parameter. The calendar part is pretty easy to approach, but for the country part I need you to write down a list of countries, areas etc. in alphabetical order within an ordinary text file (.txt extension). Each country, area etc. must be on it's own line, then it would be easy for me to duplicate it into the HTML of a webpage.

February 26, 2004 13:47 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

This is all that comes to mind at the moment. To repeat myself - I truly hope my inadequate communication skills haven't turned your chat board spirit off.

February 26, 2004 04:42 Jim Watson

My second item is a pioneer flight cover from England to Australia in 1920. The challenge was a reward of £10,000.

Dave F.,
You know you have my support in whatever you decide to do. I, like so many others, appreciate your fine work here.

February 26, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Dave F

I second Richard Warren's statement.

February 26, 2004 Richard Warren

Dave, I know I've made some robust comments here at times, but I hope I haven't contributed to your disillusionment. Like others, this is one of the first bookmarks I come to, and I've appreciated very much this board being here, and everything you've done and endured.

February 26, 2004 00.29 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 26, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Errata
Postal history post should read: Up to Nov. of 1953 there were two rate changes. From Nov. of 1953 to the end of the rate in 1995 there were 11 rate changes.

February 26, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Dave F Your hard work in hosting this board has been appreciated more than you will ever know. If you want to move on to other things, don't even hesitate. Move on! Your other endeavors in life are more important. No doubt some other suckers, er, I mean volunteers, will step forward to help out. This Board has been a wonderful resource, even when served with whine and cheese. It is very easy to complain and criticize, much more difficult to accomplish what you have accomplished through this board. Take pride in your accomplishments and let someone else pull the wagon now.

February 25, 2004 Duncan Doenitz

Thank you Dave.

Check e-mail. Check StampChat. That's the daily routine. Well, actually sometimes the e-mail has to wait, things get VERY interesting at StampChat at times! Roger Heath expressed it much better than I could, this is a wonderful board.

Today was one of those days when e-mail came first, but only because I had promised to send a message to a friend before I left to teach a class this evening. What was the message? Information to a fellow stamp collector about the 1928 Booklet Paper printings of US stamps, information that I learned here! It is difficult to measure the overall effects caused by this board's existence, but it clearly has been very valuable, sometimes in ways that are hard to measure.

God bless you Dave.

Dunc

February 25, 2004 10:41pm PST Sheryll <sheryll at sheryll dot net> http://www.sheryll.net/
 

Dave F. - Thank you for your kind enquiry. I am off to Canberra next month for Canberra Stampshow 2004, where I will be exhibiting my New Hebrides for the last time. I belatedly offer my appreciation of and admiration for the time and effort you have put into providing this board for us all since the events of last May.

Richard W. - I am still feeling abashed by last year's Lenten Philatelic Feast, and am preparing to purge myself of my philatelic possessions. The recent discussions here and elsewhere give me cause to consider whether I will continue to collect anything at all!

Sheryll

February 25, 2004 21:45 Dave F. (moderator)

Thanks
Just on for a minute tonight.

Thanks to each of you for the kind words. I will reply more in detail on here tomorrow, and will reply to the emails then too.

Perhaps a better way to look at this would be: consider this the first incarnation of StampChat, or StampChat 1.0. I'm asking for someone else (or, ideally, a group, or committee) to evolve it into StampChat 2.0, son of StampChat, or something more cleverly named. (Can't go anywhere but up from "StampChat".)

Since people don't check in every day, I think the discussion ought to really remain open on this for a few days. The usual other topics are more than welcome during this period, too.

Thanks!

 

February 25, 2004 Chris

Thanks
Dave F. You have done exemplary service in running this
board and you are to be commended for it. Philatelists are an
opinionated and fractious bunch and running this board must have
seemed like herding cats at some points. (And you weren't allowed
to use the branding irons, even when appropriate.) If you decide that
it isn't worth the pain, I understand that decision completely.

Chris - don't try to understand 'em, just rope and throw and brand 'em

February 25, 2004 Chris

Local Club Meeting
We just had our monthly meeting and used a program suggested on this
board: "Mystery Stamp Night". It went pretty well. There were about
40 mystery objects and almost all of them were identified at least to
place and often as to type. I could only help on one item (a poor
quality rubberstamp of a COGH triangle) but had many of my mystery
items identified. It would have been better if more people had brought
items, but as near as I can tell, about half of the members do not read
the meeting announcement.

Thanks to the board member that suggested the program.

Chris - regular president back next month, so I don't have to referee the fight over whether to hold a show or not

February 25, 2004 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

February 25, 2004 Roger Heath

Future of Board
I like this Board!! I like reading the variety of comments. I like the extent of experience expressed here. I like the format.

I never read threaded boards. They seem to start with one topic and meander into other unrelated conversations. So what is the point of a threaded board, my only guess is to focus on the stream of unrelentless questions. I like questions, I like intelligent questions, I get questions all day at school, and some are asked to really learn. It seems to be less work for many to re-ask questions, rather than look things up in references of which threaded boards are one resource.

The beauty of this Board is the continuous conversation that meanders because there is only one common ground, philately. Everything else is on the periphery, but that is where each Board has its individual personality. I've looked at other Boards and they aren't interesting to me (except Richard's Board), that doesn't mean they aren't interesting. They serve a purpose and are alternative places of communication.

My feeling is that anyone who doesn't like this Board should go elsewhere, there is nothing in the world that requires attendance here. This started as an emergency reaction to blunt unexplained censorship on Ebay Board. I think David has made it very clear why he had to established standards in posts, if you don't like it , too bad.

Many of you must feel that I've not been up to leading the Ebay "club". I presently feel Ebay does not deserve to have a philatelic club affiliated with it. Ebay has shown a 98% disregard for stamp collectors and only responded to national television pressure to do something about fraud on its site. Then it opens its arms to the APS and hid something, it doesn't appear to have been truthful to APS, it couldn't have been open about the number of reported fraudulent auctions. I ask, what has been the most divisive topic here recently? The comments concerning the APS/Ebay partnership. Why has this been divisive because it appears people who've been watching bay evolve for over 5 years have been called Yahoos! and Zealots!

I feel like David. Posters lack personal consideration of others and there have been many unnecessary snide comments about others. I ask that David not end this Board, and I don't think it necessary to archive any posts made on this Board because they are invariably used to "quote" past comments for sake of argument. If you weren't here, you missed it. Minutes of the daily meeting are available, you must look up the information yourself.

Thanks David for creating this Board, thanks for withstanding the discourteous, and I hope you continue this Board "as is".

Roger

PS: No offense intended, no personal jibes directed, no reason to defend any position because it is unlikely I'll change my mind on any of the positions I've expressed, unless someone wishes to produce facts proving my point of view is wrong.

February 25, 2004 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

February 25, 2004 Chuck Harm

Dave - Features are overrated. What you have done is fine. If you need to let go thanks for what you did. You do have (at least for this crowd) fairly unusual diplomatic skills. Also don't vanish completely whatever happens - I'm just getting more serious about Japanese stamps and I'm sure to have questions. First one - where do you get a JSCA catalog?How often are they published?

Jim W-S Didn't know I was supposed to send my questions about dumb west texans to you. I was formerly a dumb east texan in dallas but then moved east and am an intellectual sophisticate again;-)

February 25, 2004 03:45 CET Paul B.

Jim W-S I wouldn't mind if the upcoming eUSC president would be interested. BTW... Yes, I do sleep sometimes.

February 25, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Paul B
Do you never sleep?
It sounds like a good arrangement to me, if you two guys can synchronize.
A third person could probably make it a viable proposition, though I don't intend to volunteer myself.
Not that I would not like to do it.
Too wrapped up in answering emails about "dumb west Texans" at the moment.

February 25, 2004 frank

Stamp Chats proposed new rule: be good or be gone
To the moderator: There is a bar in Manhattan that has stood the test of time and just celebrated its 150th anniversary. For Manhattan that's quite a feat where the city rebuilds a lot of itself ever twenty years. The bar is Mc Sorleys Old Ale House on East 7th Street. Old Abe Lincoln drank there as did Samuel F.B. Morse. If you're in New York it's worth a visit. They have one rule, one only: be good or be gone. I think that might work for STAMP CHAT as well.

February 25, 2004 03:28 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Dave F. Well, I wouldn't mind to take some of that burden, the technical, administrative stuff etc. - if you wouldn't mind staying as a moderator. You are much better at communicating in English than I am and certainly understand the shades and "inbetween lines" much better than I.

February 25, 2004 prometheus

Thanks Dave
I understand some of the trials and tribulations you have been subjected to here because you are just a Nice guy.
I have learned a lot here and really want to thank you for the great job you have done.
Enjoy Life dude, The Trolls and posers here will still be that in other places.

I really did not think you would make it this far.
Not being sarcastic mind you
I always remember what My GrandMother told me
" NO Good Deed goes Unpunished"

 

February 25, 2004 18:00 Dave F. (moderator)

My intent is this could be an orderly transition to an agreed-upon location and with an agreed-upon structure, and that that discussion about it could be held here.

It is just becoming increasingly apparent to me that my skills are inadequate to make a board that has all the features that people would like, and I am unwilling to spend the time it would take to develop those skills.

Moreover, I spend a number of hours each week answering complaints about the board, carefully weighing my words, and wondering if this is the one that's going to be a genuine problem. I am tired of this.

I am a person of faith, and I have taken this responsibility seriously, thinking that this is a way to help in the philatelic community. But I've grown very weary of trying to referee the petty arguments, the snide comments, and the inflammatory remarks. Moreover, it seems that every Sunday, when I come home from church, feeling a little bit at peace, I invariably have a complaint threatening legal or FBI action against me, or there's a brouhaha on the board itself. I'm also in a serious relationship, and the need to be "on call" to this board has been disruptive at times.

The recent suggestions about creating a thread of important posts, how it should be structured and formatted, all the other ways the board could be improved, I have no stomach for.

When I requested that we refrain from making disparaging and potentially libelous remarks on here, I was very disappointed to hear privately from several prominent experts that they no longer saw any reason to read or participate in the board. They seemed not to understand the liability issue, and this discouraged me as well.

I do not want to abandon this community, and that's why I suggested a transition period. I know that Colin's suggestion on the other board was certainly not intended to precipitate this, but I did resent the sarcastic remarks subsequent to it. I resent going to other boards and hearing this board referred to as a bunch of yahoos. It's too discouraging.

So, it is time for something better to be developed. It sounds like the timing could work out well with a general meeting of the EUSC as well. Again, you are welcome to have this discussion here.

February 25, 2004 prometheus

OOHH-NOOO
That's all folks

February 25, 2004 Brian McInturff

I must say I'm a bit surprised but understand also. It's got to be a huge burden. But I sure hate to see this go away as I'm not sure I would wade through the ebay chat.

February 25, 2004 Chuck Harm

Dave
Can I ask what problem we are solving by you abandoning this board? I do not have confidence that the ebay board fills the need and can be relied upon given the potential for random and arbitrary cencorship.
If you need to free yourself from the board and therefore are looking for someone else or another group to create an alternative I understand.

February 25, 2004 16:07 Dave F. (moderator)

reposted from the eBay board
NOIP & all:Let me propose this solution to the problem: How about I'll keep the other board [i.e., this StampChat board] up until March 31st. That gives about 5 weeks for others who are much more talented than I to develop something much better than I was able to in 2 days. The StampChat board can be used to hold the discussion about who wants to do it, what they want it to be, etc., and the site can ultimately provide the forwarding link to a new site, perhaps sponsored by the IUSC/eUSC.

By the way, I don't think Colin was proposing another board; he was proposing that perhaps the EUSC should be recast, as has been broached before, and have its meetings held elsewhere. He didn't specifically mentioned StampChat, but that would have been fine.

But I have thought for some time that it was time for me to get out of board hosting, so hopefully this will be enough time for talented, dedicated people to develop the board that they should really have.
 

February 25, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Anyone know if the Heligoland and Hamburg on Brian's link are worth listing on eBay?
I have a whole bunch of them.

I must be slow, I see that one of the "players" whom he bought from was NARU'd in September.
Did it have anything to do with the mere 370 negative feedbacks in 6 months?
eBay sure seem to have been on the ball with him.

February 25, 2004 Brian McInturff

So I wonder what's all wrong with this?
link

February 25, 2004 15:06 Dave F. (moderator)

post moved from eBay
This was my post originally made on the eBay board. I can't seem to get the html correct over there. In the comments below, the "other board" is in fact this board, and "here" means on the eBay board. Sorry for the confusion:

stamphick: I'm not sure if I detect a snide tone in your post, as is so often the case when you like to get in a little political jab.

I'm sorry that the other board is not as free-wheeling as it once was, but should I have been personally, financially liable for people's remarks? I was credibly threatened several times, and I can't believe that any reasonable person would think that I should bear that liability.

I think a group-run board by the IUSC is a great idea. I would happily turn over the other board to support it, and, indeed, I proposed a group-run board several times on here, either before or during the "purges" that took place hgere. The board I set up quickly was to try to take care of the problem after the last big purge, so that people wouldn't lose touch with each other if this board were removed (which was also threatened, similar to the fate of the threaded stamps board on here).

If you recall, the deletions on here were much broader than just linking to an auction. Any comments or indeed questions about how eBay was handling potentially fraudulent or misrepresented material were deleted. Even links to the APS and the APRL were deleted.

Although it appears that the moderation on here is much more lax than it has been, we have two specific prior periods that demonstrate that the pendulum can, in a matter of minutes, swing precipitously the other way again.

Please feel free to help set up a constructive solution to this problem, rather than just take potshots at what others have attempted to do.

February 25, 2004 Brian McInturff

Dave P. South African Christmas Seal- Yes they are collected. I'm not really into the "foreign" seals but I'll email Randy Kirsch and see what he thinks. 1937 isn't all that early so I'm thinking in the 5-10 range. On the other label, maybe Moosburgh(sp?)I'll see if I've got a copy buried at the house.

February 25, 2004 23:21 CET Paul B.

format for threaded archives
Have to retire from the board for some hours now. Just want to add that almost anything is possible technically. Please consider whether you want a manually run HTML archive that has to be updated on a regular basis - or some dynamic additions that would make the archives either semi or full automatic.
I can create a simple addy to browse all available pages indexed by internet search engines. I can also install a dynamic portal with lots of plug-ins and features - or with just the most basic functions, but still with a built-in search option.

February 25, 2004 David Benson

Dave de Roo,

not a label, Queensland Government Railway Parcels stamp, that type was used from 1901, various values, many shades, perfs, shades. There is a catalogue for them, which I haven't got but that one is of very little value.

David B.
 

February 25, 2004 22:52 CET Paul B.

format for threaded archives
David F. Well, the "search a page" function is actually quite primitive. When using simple HTML it is possible to search your entire domain this way - click here. When using the software I've got (Perl based) the search engine is a built-in feature and searches the entire site.

February 25, 2004 13:30 Dave F. (moderator)

Let me see if I can clarify the discussion a little bit.

The original question had to do with taking one topic, the discussion on illegals, that has been active for at least 2 - 3 months on here, and pulling it into one place. That's one topic, with, what, 100, 200, 300 messages at most. I was thinking that this was not too much information just to have on one page.

The version 2 that Paul proposed, again, is a nice format, but wouldn't that be more applicable for the "archives" as a whole, as opposed to a single topic? (Maybe I'm missing something here.)

If so, let me add that the reason that the archives currently exist in half-month "clumps" is so that someone can do a keyword search quickly. The way it currently exists, you can search back through a month's worth of posts by opening only two files. (You can even go through the entire board's posts in less than 2 dozen files.)

If we split the archives down into a daily page, then I don't see that it's really that much different than the default choice, clicking the links at the bottom of this page, which what the host software does for us. I appreciate that it looks neater and more organized if it's broken down by day, but, as a functional matter, it seems to me that the search capability, limited though it is, would still override the neatness issue. (In other words, half-a-month pages vs daily pages. The only reason I didn't keep it a month at a time is that the files are really quite big. I thought the half-a-month was a compromise.)

So, when you are indicating a preference on a format, could you indicate if it's your preference for a particular subject, i.e., illegals, or if it's for the archives at large.

Again, if I'm missing the point here, please let me know. (And this is a little bit of why I removed all the old threads, when my motives were misinterpreted, and why I was reluctant to get involved in this again.)

I will point out to Paul and/or others, that there also ends up being a judgment issue in deciding what posts belong with a topic and which don't. From past experience, I've learned that some posts weave a couple of topics together, and it's difficult, without significant editing and rewriting, to pull those thoughts apart. (Sometimes it's easy and just a matter of deleting the off-topic parts.) Anyway, this is why I haven't done much on it up to this point.

February 25, 2004 Dave De Roo

Queensland Label(?)

David B, thanks. That was a possibility I hadn't considered.

Can you tell me anything about this item?
Queensland Label(?)

February 25, 2004 Richard W

My vote's for Paul B's parameter 2!

February 25, 2004 Richard Warren

Lundy. Used to have a whole stack of them, and other island locals, both legitimate and bogus. Yes, Ken, I do collect Azad Hind. Even have a stash of Maluku Selantan somewhere, and am quite fond of them. Hypocrisy? No, just discrimination!

February 25, 2004 Marius

APS auction
Ken L Thanks for forwarding my concerns about my APS auction purchase to their office. I have called them and sorted it out. It seems that emails sent directly from APS to me were returned undeliverable but emails sent through the Ebay site were ok. Without fully checking I would say they could have been blocked by my anti-spam filter. Thanks again.

February 25, 2004 21:56 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Here is the same concept with another parameter
http://www.lettonica.info/illegals2

February 25, 2004 21:53 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Here is the same concept with another parameter
http://www.lettonica.info/illegals2/

February 25, 2004 21:53 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Here is the same concept with another parameter: http://www.lettonica.info/illegals2/

February 25, 2004 Chip G <cgliedman-at-usa-dot-net>

Archiving the discussion
Lets look at what the goals are of the archive and let that dictate the format. I will try, but please correct me if I'm wrong:
- "Thread" the discussion. I think that the idea here is that we want to isolate the discussion of a certain topic from the clutter of other discussions. As the board is not threaded (which would be self-isolating), we need to pull the comments about a specific topic out.
I do believe that the whole legal/illegal/label discussion is a single topic.
- Flip the order - have the oldest things at the top and the newer ones at the bottom
- Make it easy to read and follow. I think that this implies a multi-message view.

So, while the format is nice and may serve as an outline for multiple threads (with each one having a topic at the left), I don't think that it works for a single thread. Something that just allowed scrolling down of the messages is all that is needed within a single thread. Perhaps, if things get too bulky, they can be grouped in groups of 10 messages or so, with a "next" and "previous" link or use the structure of the sample with each link on the left calling up 10 messages.

My 1.1 cents worth here.
Chip

February 25, 2004 12:33 Jim Watson

Archives
Dave F. and Paul B.,
Just a few Quick and Dirty comments on what seems like it just might be an astounding bit of programming. (There may be some other uses for it.)

First, to be useful in the context of a threaded archive, it has to be accessible by topic/subject whatever. If I surmise correctly, Paul's software processes an already archived page and selects by author/poster.

How can it be made to select by topic? Key words are a thought but that wouldn't be successful because someone would not use the key word or spell it wrong or something. Dare I ask if it is possible that a Third Hand could add a subject to each post when they become archived so that the software can find the right posts to list? Sounds like a hard task, however.

The advantage of most threaded boards is that the subject is defined by the poster when he selects a subject to respond to. The difficulty is that each topic has to be reviewed if you have eclectic interests like most who visit here. Maybe there is a way to make the posts currently in sequence as on this board but make the archive be by subject.

BTW, Paul, is there a way I could adapt the software to sort my lists/links by country? Now that might be of interest to some readers.

But now I'm rambling.

February 25, 2004 David Benson

Dave De Roo, on the South Australia Revenue, they were on sale a long time and quality control was not of the utmost importance. There would have been many printings and many shades.

David B.

February 25, 2004 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

February 25, 2004 20:41 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

format for threaded archive
A&S Another pro: Try to click a link within a post and see the different approach to links.

February 25, 2004 Dave P

The second is this censored cover with a WW2 Indian patriotic label. This was issued in aid of the Sind war gifts fund. I can find nothing about this, are they listed anywhere?

February 25, 2004 11:06 Dave F. (moderator)

format for thread archive
Yesterday, Paul B. graciously answered the call to go through and try to pull a thread together about the "illegals" discussion that's been taking place on here.

Paul's skills in html development are far more sophisticated than those of most of us, so he developed a different format for how this thread might look.

With his kind permission, I am providing a link to it and soliciting input about the format. Bear in mind that the items in it are just for formatting purposes; they are not the actual posts of the thread.

I see pros and cons in this style. On the plus side, it makes any post load quickly, which would be in contrast to the way that the "archive" pages do now. It also makes it easy to find any post from any poster.

However, its major detraction, and one I'm particularly concerned about, is that it requires clicking on each post in order to view it. Because I read and scan information quickly, I personally prefer a format where I click once to load a page and then scroll up or down to read it, rather than clicking to see an individual post.

However, I'm concerned that I'm letting my own bias get in the way of what might be a good idea, so I asked Paul if I could solicit input from the board about this. (I also hesitated to even share my perspective on it at this time, but ultimately decided it was better to go and and explain my thinking about this.)

Here is the link, and let me know what you think:

http://www.lettonica.info/illegals/

Thanks!

February 25, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Fortunately there were no snippers, just two snipers.

February 25, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Pan Pac expo label
Pro, Matt, Nomad - Thank you for the cmoments on my Panama Pacific Expo label, yesterday.

February 25, 2004 Dave De Roo

Color Changeling

I'm aware that Barefoot is not all-inclusive, hence this question.
Is it reasonable that the stamp on the right is a color changeling of the stamp on the left? Barefoot notes only one color.
Queensland Revenue

February 25, 2004 Brian McInturff

Thanks Bjorn, I figured the tabs might have a premium and since they are on cover. I've got a hoard of this stuff and am trying to figure out how to price it. Same as the Israel cover with tabs I linked to the other day. Ii know I've got a few more of those type covers also. Have several 3rd Reich stuff in that hoard that I'll have to ask the TR group about too.

February 25, 2004 03:46 Jim Watson

My second item is a cover from Panama to Austria in 1891. The route took it through New York City.

February 25, 2004 01:35 Bjorn Munch

czech covers
Correction: upper RIGHT corner.

February 25, 2004 Roger Heath

Isle of Man
A couple of other island examples. Isle of Man PO van, and the Ballacricket letterbox. QV who? );>) A legitimate postal administration.

Roger


 

February 25, 2004 Roger Heath

Offshore islands - Arran
I thought some of you might enjoy seeing how the mail is transparted from the Isle of Arran to the mainland. On the right of this image is the Arran Hopper coming ashore at Ardrossan, nr Glasgow. I almost missd the shot as we were waiting to board the ferry in our car heading for Brodick and points northwest.
 

February 25, 2004 Dave P

GB offshore islands
The great majority of the offshore islands' issues are merely tourist labels, produced either for the fiscal benefit of the island owner or such organisations as the National Trust. Some are quite nicely produced, others are poorly printed with remainders rather bizarrely overprinted for "Europa" or Olympics. This category includes such places as Staffa, and Calf of Man.
A few, although philatelically inspired, did (or could) pay for the transmission of mail from the island into the mainland mailstream, as there was no Royal Mail service on the island. The three that come to mind are Lundy, Herm, and the Commodore Shiping Company (the latter for parcels). Use was permitted by RM, but the labels were to be placed on the reverse of the envelope, and RM stamps placed on the front - although in practice Lundy usually uses a meter mark for the latter. A few years ago I came across an envelope from Herm to the National Insurance Office in Newcastle with a Herm local on the reverse - you don't come much more non-philatelic then that. Lundy issues are still going strong, the Herm issues stopped as part of the agreement where the new independent Guernsey Post opened an Office on the island.

February 25, 2004 23:30 Bjorn Munch

czech covers
Brian: I don't know much either, but I have a catalogue. These stamps aren't rare, but there's a premium for the ones aith an attached label, up to 6 Euro (says Michel) for the 2.40 in the upper left corner of both. How much for a number of them on a philatelic cover I don't know...

 

February 25, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Oops. the front is here .

February 24, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Postal History
Good evening/day to all. Today's featured item of postal history focuses on Fiji and the Marshall Islands. http://auction1.inetu.net/member/lavart/fiji-marsh1.jpg> This card is an uprated postal card mailed from Levuka, Fiji on Oct. 21, 1895 to Jaluit, Marshall Islands. The reverse of the card shows transits from Suva (Oct. 23) and Sydney (Nov. 5). If you look at a map of the South Pacific, you will notice that this card traveled more twice the direct distance between Fiji and the Marshalls to reach its destination via Australia. That probably was, however, the quickest way for mail to travel between those two locations under notmal circumstances at that time.
 

February 24, 2004 Roger Heath

Golf
I hadn't anything better to do, so took to the links. Not Championship, but my best score so far. 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,2,2,1 = 23

Roger

February 24, 2004 Anne

Anne

February 24, 2004 21:35 Jim Watson

Educator Packets
Paul L.,
Those Educator Packets were all about providing reference examples to help collectors identify stamps. There was another sort of reference collection suggested for collectors: Paper varieties. I believe that using lesser copies for reference is a great idea.
 

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

czech covers
Not knowing anything about this area can someone tell me if these are common or worth putting effort into. czech covers

February 24, 2004 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Matt: They've done a lot for the Christmas Seal Society. Plus all the work they did over the years to try and upgrade the "Greens" catalog. Actually there seems to be an icrease in interest in the Christmas Seals from what I've been told by dealers at bourses and on ebay.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Jim, a large quantity of genuine 6d.s were heavily gummed with a Green gum which discoloured the paper, still even shows on many used stamps.

David B.

February 24, 2004 Matt Liebson

Brian: the Denunes reside in my college town, Granville OH. I used to bump into Jr. at the post office -- he was easily identifiable because he always had a stockbook of discount postage for use.

February 24, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

David B
No, it looks like someone put a lot of effort into it a long time ago to get the "tropical staining", crinkled gum on the reverse and hinge remnant.
The alternative is that fakers are getting brighter or the uneducated are getting dumber.
If my conclusions are correct.
I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole.
To use a quaint English saying.

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Christmas Seals
Sorry for misspelling names Louis Caprario

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Christmas Seals
Thanks Chip, I saw the One cent letterpostage label exhibit earlier this month at Norfolk. Nice but the type of content and layout wouldn't work for the Christmas Seals. Louis Capriano, I'm pretty sure he has sold off hiscollection which is a shame. His is the one I'm closest to in regards to content. I may contact him and see if he still has a photocopy of it. Last time I talked to him he didn't scan. He wanted photos of my 1907's -1913's tied for a different project he was working on. I also saw Ward's exhibit at Norfolk and I wasn't impressed with it, Sorry Joe if you are lurking. I saw one of Hotchner's exhibits at Norfolk(but not the seals) and I was real impressed with the overall format and how it just "flowed" together.

February 24, 2004 Bill Weiss

Fraud
BOB; Thanks. I am opposed to fraud in any form, thus I am against the sale of anything, postage stamps, seals, labels, illegals or anything else that is described in such a way, or not described, so as to cause the innocent or uninformed (or informed) to be parted from their money. Do I believe that those who produce this crap (illegals, when correctly defined) should be strung up by their heels? Indeed. But once the product gets into the hands of a seller who is now going to offer it in a venue such as eBay, and assuming that eBay allows the sale of it, now the focus must be on the honest description of it soas to protect the innocent/uninformed/ignorant buyer. Therefore, to rale away at an incorrect target seems to me, a waste of good time and energy. If the description is incorrect/inaccurate/fraudulent, then attack the vendor and eBay for allowing it. If it is accurately described in such a way as allowed by eBay, forget it and attack elsewhere. If you disagree with it being allowed at all, attack eBay.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Jim, The design used on some of the later Postal Stationery varies from the original stamp. The later ones had date plugs at the base which were later filled with a rosette design. There is a cut out from a Telegraph form that is very poorly embossed and printed. Most probably from that or just someone using his latest computer.

David B.

February 24, 2004 6:16 pm Bob in WA

Bill W -- My understanding of most objections to even properly described laserjet art projects is that a flood of them into the market provides way too much source material for all the shady resellers (who will NOT properly describe them) too untalented and lacking in imagination to produce them themselves. But I agree with all you said, and perhaps we must be resigned to focusing on the true fraudsters rather than the suppliers of their raw material.

February 24, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

David B
SG has a nice used one on their site which you kindly pointed me to.
Hair is wrong.
Wings on side escutcheons are not present.
No overlapping frames (though neither does Gibbons' example).
No die number.
Apart from the fact that it shows on my screen as purple, not mauve.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Jim, easy enough to tell, it should be watermarked VR. As the stamps were struck singly, they usually overlap and it would be impossible to find one with margins like that. Most probably a Postal Stationery cut out.

February 24, 2004 Chip G <cgliedman-at-usa-dot-net>

Christmas Seal Exhibits
Brian McI Here is a list of Christmas Seal and Cinderella exhibits at the last August Stampshow. Some others who have tackled the problem of exhibiting seals.

If you care, you can look them up on this list to see how they did.

Good luck.
Chip

February 24, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Mauve, embossed, mint?
Don't think so.

February 24, 2004 nomad55

Chip.....interesting about Hotchner's gold award for 1934 christmas seals. Way back when (10 years or so ago) I sold him some 34's on covers that probably made it into that exhibit.

February 24, 2004 prometheus

Paul I
I have the Color Educator ones I find them very useful in getting close to what color is what.
 

February 24, 2004 paul laniosz

educator packet
Does anyone know about these EDUCATOR PACKET by stanley gibbons inc.or what they were used for. ,i have a small box of hundreds of these EDUCATOR PACKET....paul

February 24, 2004 Bill Weiss

Illegals
I too feel this discussion has been extremely interesting and is definitely worth saving in a thread. I have nothing to contribute to it, except to say that philately has indeed come a long weay. I remember the first time I exhibited in 1969 I think, at SOJEX in Atlantic City, when an exhibit of US Christmas Seals was disqualified because the head judge (Emilio Obregon I believe) refused to judge it. Now these subjects are worthy of top-level awards. They are not my cup of tea. I like classical philately, particularly postal history and cancellations, but I would defend to the death your right to collect whatever you damn well please, as it's your money and your life. I also however, do agree with the camp that insists it is dead wrong if the stuff isn't accurately described as what it really is. There is no room for debate there. It seems that the major debate is that even when the stuff IS accurately described and IS being bought and sold by consenting adults, it still gets some folks nose's out of joint. That I don't understand. I say you don't bless the creator of the stuff, but you don't crucify the buyer and/or accurate seller.

February 24, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Bob
Interestingly, Richard Thorpe had, just prior to his death, written an article about the possibility of Lundy being the site of a Tertiary volcano.

February 24, 2004 16:29 Dave F. (moderator)

Paul B.: I just sent you an email (but I appreciate it's late in your timezone!).

February 24, 2004 David Benson

I don't think anyone today has any problem with the legitimate issues of Lundy as they paid for the transit of mail from the island to the mainland. Whilst on the subject of British offshore islands, what about Easdale Island.

David B.

February 24, 2004 Ken Lawrence

PVIs

I wrote a comprehesive column on PVIs in the American Philatelist many years ago, including the experimental forerunners and one unique essay, with follow-ups on many later varieties including the luminescence-omitted ones. It's interesting that the Domestic Mail Manual stated that PVIs were not meters and not stamps, thus creating a category in limbo without their own regulations initially, though sensible mail handlers treated PVI mail as metered, and the pink or orange stripe activated the meter sorter but not the facer-canceler equipment.
 

February 24, 2004 4:14 pm Bob in WA

Bob in WA

 

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

I'll have to contact John H. and see if he's going to exhibit anymore. Thanks Chip, I've traded with Denune Jr and Sr over the years. I'm more interested in seeing John's exhibit so I know how mine should be laid out(at least an idea).

February 24, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

John Hotchner aalso wrote the nice Linns article about PVI's which are also not "stamps" but they are valid for postage and are recognized as evidence in Law Courts by the IRS.
Some of the earliest ones are from Daytona Beach and Gainesville from May 1993, if anyone who may be in Florida should stumble across any. Also San Diego in April of same year. I think my earliest is July of 93.

On a sad not, one of my good friends died of a heart attack while doing geology on Lundy.

February 24, 2004 Bob Hohertz

Lundy
Ken,
Yep, they went - saw slides of the trip at one of the Webster Groves Stamp Club meetings.

February 24, 2004 Chip G (last message before heading out)

Christmas Seals
Brian Mc.: I was referring to John Hotchner. From Google - Ropex 2001 Awards. Gold award. Don't know if he exhibited it anywhere else.

Also, I am sure you are aware of this Christmas Seals site

Chip

February 24, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Lundy

These were the stamps that I loved and the stamp police condemned when I was a beginner. They are popular in the Cinderella Division now.

Several of our champion exhibitors compete with Lundy, which never stopped issuing stamps. Richard Drews (formerly Stamp King, Chicago) has the best exhibit I've seen. I once had a nice collection of World War II Lundy covers. A year or two ago David Kols (Regency Auctions, Saint Louis) planned to take a group of Lundy collectors to the island. Did they go?
 

February 24, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dang, its been a long day.
goes = guess.

February 24, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

David B
I'd have to goes the Tonga section.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Jim, had a look too, nothing I am after, plenty of the rare overprints but I already have most of them. There is something else in the catalogue that may be of interest.

David B.

February 24, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Christmas Seals

Brian M,

Yes, John Hotchner collects and exhibits Christmas seals. I was on the jury the first time he exhibited them in national competition, and the first critic. He got a gold medal, but he did need to improve it. I haven't seen it since, but I'm pretty sure has has shown it again.
 

February 24, 2004 David K.

Stamps of Lundy Island (GB)
Okay, now that I've read all of this; where the heck do Lundy stamps fall in? Lundy Island (GB)owned by Mr. Harman produced his own stamps in 1925. By 1931, King George arrested and fined him 5 pounds(for coining his own money)...no more stamps. Cinderellas? A fun bunch of stamps if ever there was! Puffinland stamps...lol.

February 24, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Just had first first quick look at the Shreves catalog.
Pages and pages of Oil Rivers and only three volcanoes, none of which I can afford.

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Christmas Seals
Chip:Ken Was that Hotchner that colleccted Christmas Seals and if so did he exhibit them? I pretty sure he collected but not sure on the exhibiting. I know he has one of the Andrews fakes that I was looking for.

February 24, 2004 00:25 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Creation of a thread
Dave F. Sounds like a piece of cake. No need of e-mailing the file(s), I'll just upload them and you can take it from there - if no one else has volunteered, yet.

February 24, 2004 14:43 Dave F. (moderator) <dfrick@pacificanalytics.com>

creation of a thread
I think a thread about the illegals problem will be useful, especially because there has been a pretty sophisticated elucidation of several different lines of reasoning. I don't think I've seen anything elsewhere on the net or in the philatelic press that's been as comprehensive.

Could I possibly ask for a volunteer to help compile it for the board?

This is not as hard, from an html-standpoint, as it may sound. It would not require someone to have html knowledge, or even an html editor. All I need is an edited document where the posts look the same way that they do here on this page (same fonts, colors, horizontal lines, clickable links still clickable, etc.), and I can take it from there.

While that may sound challenging, I just tested it in both Eudora and Microsoft Outlook, and a copy-and-paste command into a blank email will accomplish that. (In Outlook, it required modifying the paste so that it kept the source formatting, which was just a click on an icon to get it to do that.) It certainly can be done with an html editor, such as Frontpage, but that's not necessary.

If anyone has an interest in this, why don't you send me an email with, say, 3 posts in it as a test, and I can let you know if it works with whatever application you're using. If the test works, then I can announce to the board that someone is working on it, so that there's no duplication of effort.

This would be enormously helpful, and can allow us to have pages available that focus on specific topics. In fact, if anyone is interested in doing this for another topic that's of special interest to them, then please let me know. I'd be happy to support it.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Ken, I have no interest whatsoever in finding out who is selling them, only how they are sold at public auctions,

David B.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Ken, thanks, no need for ilustrations, just description, estimate (and realisation) is fine,

David B.

February 24, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Summing Up

Brian M

The APS Manual of Philatelic Judging states, “For our purposes, the Cinderella Division includes labels issued for charitable purposes including, but not limited to: Christmas seals, Easter seals, wildlife conservation stamps and [those issued by] other nonprofit organizations dedicated to charitable causes. This division also includes promotional material issued for purposes of promoting or encouraging business or trade (such as trading stamps), or participation in special events (such as trade fair or World’s Fair poster stamps). The Cinderella Division also includes bogus and phantom issues, vignettes, labels, fantasy issues, and other similar material not included in Postal or Revenue Divisions.”

It stands to reason, in my opinion, that a Society that encourages collectors of such material to enter it in national level exhibitions with the possibility of earning high awards would not be inclined to prohibit or interfere with the sale of such material, provided it is properly described as is required of all philatelic material. We fully understand that some APS members and non-member collectors disagree with these policies.

Richard W:

On principle I collect stamps that the police and the stamp police forbid. (I own the best and most complete collection of revolutionary Cuban first day covers in the world.) Sometimes I have to hold my nose to do it, as I did when I collected the Bantustan issues of apartheid South Africa (commercial uses of the postal stationery issues were the most difficult for me) and post-UDI Rhodesia (including one from Ian Smith’s home, a couple of free field posts from Bulawayo, and one postage due for the stamp not recognized by Zambia). Fascist Myanmar should be a cakewalk.

British journalists take the prize for circumlocution. Every American neighborhood paper is more plainspoken than any Fleet Street rag. I realize that draconian libel laws often prohibit truthful writing, but making that allowance doesn’t leave much of your point.

Dave P

Good points. I’d have no problem with the WWF and others suing infringers (legal and illegal) for all they are worth and collecting it, as the Walt Disney Company did to infringing stamp agents in 1972, but it isn’t for Europe’s stamp barons to tell us that infringement is ok because they have a contract signed by a postal official in a Third World country that never heard of WWF and never saw the legal stamp issued by his country while banning so-called illegal infringers. And where would Richard W be if, say, the fellow from Lithuania paid WWF a proper royalty while Redonda did not?

Chip G:

All your points are good, and the Hussey label cover is wonderful. I especially enjoyed the dachshund overprints, which are aimed at serious stamp collectors, not juveniles (who prefer the pretty labels instead). I used to trade stamps with an East German gold medal collector/exhibitor of dog topicals who was so obedient to authority that he wasn’t interested in the wonderful example I offered of the $3 Labrador Retriever with Mallard Drake duck hunting permit stamp on 1959 on license because revenue issues were banned from Thematics. Eventually he got into the spirit of Yank style collecting and wanted everything, but by then it was too late. Then the Wall came down and the Wessis purged him.

Bob in WA

Thanks. From the beginning I have stated repeatedly that APS does not condone fraud, and that in my official capacity I have overseen the expulsion of dealers who have misrepresented their wares. But the stamp police take no prisoners; they summarily mete out the maximum penalty to peddlers of accurately described material that competes with their own. (See especially the Albertino de Figueiredo Foundation for Philately, as he calls Himself.)

David B

Naming names for witchhunts is properly regarded as dishonorable here. However, when you locate the sellers you'd like to denounce, you'll be disappointed precisely because, as you pointed out previously, illegals have very little value in the stamp market and thus are typically sold in bulk catchall remainder lots that don't lend themselves to the kind of illustrated link you'd prefer to see.
 

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Richard, sorry, it was also for Ken L.

David B.

February 24, 2004 Richard Frajola

David B That wasn't MY comment.

My comment was about "reverse mentoring"

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Ken L., thanks for replying about the reselling by Auction of MODERN ILLEGALS. Do you or anyone have a link to any Auctions in the US where they are listed or have been sold.

David B.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Richard F, interesting comment about Clyde J. but I think he was wrong to complain as the judges decision is final. The winning entry must have been exceptional. It reminded me of an Exhibition about 20 years ago and the jury were having a very heated debate as the nominated International Grand Medal entry only contained used singles, plenty of rare cancellations and rare varieties but not a single mint stamp. Some of the judges were adamant that a grand award needed large mint multiples of classics. They lost and the consensus of opinion was that study and rarity is more important than showing valuable pieces.

David B.

February 24, 2004 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

February 24, 2004 13.42 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 24, 2004 1:11 pm Bob in WA

APS Live Auction

Marius -- Boy, I'd be tempted to call collect! Either that or ask to deduct the cost of the call from your invoice. Sounds like you are dealing with the same people who managed to get the bookmarks to show closing times 12 hours too late! Maybe I was lucky that made it too late for me to bid. It was a nice book that I wanted, but I never would have enjoyed it much if it cost me an undeserved neg after 5 years of 100% positive. It's a shame, I was really hoping for that auction to go smoothly and do well, and even if they would communicate reasons for the snags it would be OK, but when they ask for info, you send it, and then weeks later they threaten a neg, sounds like you are dealing with the Keystone Kops.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Marius, think of the bright side, it will cost you less now because of the current exchange rate,

David B.

February 24, 2004 nomad55

more on PPIE seals
The whole subject of seals and labels for this expo has never been thoroughly investigated. I've been accumulating these for quite a few years, intending to expand that section in the next update to my PPIE monograph.
One should not overlook the New Orleans seals issued when the two cities were vying for the honor of hosting the expo. A tremendous quantity of these came onto the market about 2 years ago from a hoard discovered in Texas, and drove the price way downwards. These occurred in booklets containing either 4 seals per pane or 25 seals per pane.

February 24, 2004 Marius

I know I will be phoning them however it should never get to that stage.

February 24, 2004 Matt Liebson

Richard B: that is the only seal I've seen for the expo. Agree with Pro that there are probably others out there somewhere!

February 24, 2004 nomad55

PPIE label
Richard B....that's a common label, originally issued in a sheet of 25. Individually, they should sell for no more than a buck apiece. It's the first promotional label issued for the fair, and may have been printed up at the direction of the expo organizing committee. I bought a full sheet last year, only one I've ever seen. I'm also working on trying to figure out the EKU of that seal on cover or card.

February 24, 2004 prometheus

Marius
Better get out the Flack jacket for your negative posting about the ApS.
Surely it must have been your fault

February 24, 2004 Chip G

Richard B: You're right - horizontal line I saw is the edge of the plastic (duh).

Marius: Pick up the phone and call them. Person to person communications will be more effective. Apparently, there were some problems with your email being blocked somewhere or your ISP is having problems with email (could it have been down due to virus or worm a couple of weeks ago?). International calls are not that expensive and one call should solve whatever problems you are having.
C.

February 24, 2004 prometheus

Richard B
I am sure some one will answer your question, I have only seen that one tied on cards. But with the hectic advertizing/ lobby work being done there are probably more.
 

February 24, 2004 Marius <stampmad@bigpond.net.au> http://www.boomspeed.com/stampmad/main_page.htm
 

Anyone else having problems?

February 24, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Chip - I see the vertical one you are refering to now, and it may very well be that is what is being refered to in the little note next to it. The horizontal "crease", on the otherhand, is simply the edge of the clear plastic stock page it is stored on, unless you are seeing something different.

February 24, 2004 Chip G

Richard B On the lot you linked to, I see a horizontal crease across all three of the stamps on the piece and a vertical crease running down the right third of the left of the two yellow stamps (from just right of the second "O" on the top to a spot to the right of the "S" on the bottom.

Chip

February 24, 2004 David Benson

RB, it would matter if the fold breaks the surface of the stamp. They are embossed and can crack the design. If only a bend, no problem.

David B.

February 24, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Dave - In the scan it notes that 1 of the Portuguese stamps has a "fold" (crease, I'm assuming). I don't really see it, but I guess I should hope the crease is on the cheaper 25r stamp.....or would it matter if it was on one of the pair?

February 24, 2004 Chip G

Christmas Seals, Mao, and moving the Grand Canyon to Colorado
Whether the sale of Christmas seals was sanctioned by the postmaster or not, provided nothing resembling a postal service. They were only to raise funds for a non-governmental group. What's more, there were rules passed that mandated that the seal only be used on the back of the card or envelope.

So, how is it that these are listed in the Scott US Specialized Catalog? In the listing, Scott says: "While the Christmas Seal is not a postage stamp, it has long been associated with the postal service because of its use on letters and packages."
In other countries, Christmas Seals were sold through the post office. A former President of the American Philatelic Society was an exhibitor of Christmas Seals.

A couple of other things to broaden this out - how about the "Souvenir Cards" that the US Postal Service prints? They are cardboard that have a picture of a stamp-like image. They are collectable, though they do not represent any service or fee paid to the government. They are listed in catalogs and traded at stamp shows (though not nearly as much as they were in the 70s and 80s).

Lastly, to the point about stamps/labels that became legal or illegal, there is are terms for such items:
- if produced by a group wanting to get into power, that doesn't get into power - labels
- if produced by a group wanting to get into power, that does get into power - if the labels become valid, they are stamps. If they do not become valid for use, they are essays (if the are fore-runners of issued stamps) or if they go away, they are labels.
- if produced by a group in power and then they go out of power before the stamps are issued - they are essays.

Governments do mock-ups of stamps all the time. In some cases, they print all of the stamps of an issue and then change their mind about issuing them (see, for example, the stamps of the PRC with Taiwan in the wrong color or with the wrong person standing next to Mao (see the stamps on this page for examples and some BIG prices), or the USPS issue with the Grand Canyon in Colorado - which supposedly were all destroyed). If these stamps make it out to the collectors market, what are they? I think that they should be termed essays.

No Black and Whites (or Reds) in this topic, other than a desire for truth in advertising.
Chip

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Richard, the Portuguese is nice and presumably will be bought by a specialist. The pair of 10r. will probably end up in a top quality collection. I wouldn't be surprised if it realises double what you paid for the lot.

David B.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

Chip, you have hit the nail on the head with the link to the " dog " material, I would not call them stamps as they aren't.

The material is aimed at the US juvenile market and as you can see the prices aren't low. The sale of them only exists because of the fact that in the US there is an ethos that people can collect what they want and there are shysters out there that are supplying it for them. In many countries the people do not share the same idea and do not like collectors to get " hooked " on collecting " worthless " pieces of printed paper purporting to be " philatelic ". It is not good for the hobby and brings it into disrepute. It is no use comparing them to genuine Cinderellas or classical locals, that is just an excuse that they have some legality, they don't, they are produced solely to trick the intended victim that they are buying legitimate stamps.

Ken, I did ask the question in good faith and I didn't deserve the blasting I got from you. Thank you for your reply to my question to BW and if there is a resale market for illegimates, so be it, Barnum was right,

David B.
 

February 24, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Speaking of labels
Does anyone have any information on this Panama Pacific Expo label? Was there a set of them? Is this the only design?

February 24, 2004 Richard W

In that case, Ken, I have every confidence that you will choose the lawless option and work tirelessly to promote the illicit sale of stamps from fascist Myanmar, and to do your best to hinder the spread of legal illegals bearing that country's name!

February 24, 2004 10:52 am Bob in WA

Illegal imbroglio

Ken -- Thank you for your response to my post. I had not thought of items intended for legitimate use, but stillborn for political or military reasons and never seeing service. I suppose I would have to complicate my rationalization to include INTENT as a defining factor also. My initial thought is simply to somehow separate respected items, including many cinderellas (of which I have a few myself) from something cranked out by Joe Blow from Kokomo on his new color laser printer for the sole purpose of seeing how many 3¢ 8½ x 11 sheets of his printer paper he can turn into 40 or 50 much smaller pieces that he can get $12 apiece for. If it's proffered as art, that's legitimate, and I might even buy one myself, but if he represents it, even by tacit inference, as part of the world's postal system and an official fiscal entity, that's fraud. I applaud the thoughtful writing many have posted here, and agree with many seemingly opposing points made. You have certainly opened my eyes to points that had not occurred to me. Dave, I think this thread would be worthy of collecting onto a separate link, don't you?

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Christmas Seals They fall into an odd catagory. They are a fund raising stamp that the Post office allowed to be sold from them, but not over the counter. They were sold from a table set up outside of the counter. Sort of like Girl Scout cookies are allowed outside of grocery stores or the Salvation Army. So simce the PO recognized them and allowed them for sale from within the PO could they be construed to some degree as a Semi-postal? Probably not since they weren't valid for postage.

February 24, 2004 Chip G <cgliedman-at-usa-dot-net>

Labels
PS: Here is an example of that Hussey Label I mentioned earlier on a cover. I include it in my exhibition of the stamp, as it does enhance the cover, but it still is a label.

Interestingly, the Scott Specialized catalog lists Christmas seals, but not Easter seals, it lists locals and private posts, of the classic period, but not the more modern local posts. It lists the Sanitary Fair stamps, but not any of the thousands of fund raising labels I receive attached to a contribution card from every charity on earth.

The only thing consistant about the policies is inconsistancy.

And now, to throw some gasoline on the fire, how about a site as this -animals on stamps- are they selling labels, cinderellas, illegal stamps, legal stamps, misrepresenting what they have, perfectly all right, ...??? Personally, I don't really care either way. *see rule number 1 of 2 in my previous epistle.

Chip

February 24, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Richard W

Giving it a rest is fine with me, if that is your desire. I think we have all had our say, except that I saved the best for last: The Burma Freedom and Democracy Act of 2003 signed into law by George W. Bush tightened the 1995 embargo by forbidding importation of products from Myanmar. The only new Myanmar stamps that are legal to buy here are the illegals!

February 24, 2004 Richard Warren

Venceremos!

February 24, 2004 Roger Heath

My 2¢ worth
David P -
I've been watching this whole discussion and have a strong opinion, but it's obvious there is no middle ground. We appear to have reached the point where we are really discussing stamp collectors or collectors. There is no doubt that the catalogue publishers direct the market, as Bill W wrote yesterday (paraphrasing here), "if Scotts' took "X" from the back of the book and placed it in the front as a variety the value would change significantly". So at the highest levels of US collecting we see rarity isn't the factor, the place in the catalogue creates value.

I believe the difference in your example is significant. Intent is the main criteria. If I print an upside-down stamp, it doesn't have the value as compared to a US government stamp printed upside-down, because the government didn't intend it so. All the imperforate minisheet varieties from Cinderella are not errors because they printed as intended.

In the modern world collectables are whatever can be marketed by corporations or individuals who can get a piece of the public's money. I like the idea of collecting stamps that have a track record, and you'llnever see me lined up at the PO waiting for the new issue, or paying money for modern FDC's just because a postal administration has hired an artist to design a pretty "stamp". The day all new issues are available at every PO is the day I would consider trying to collect moder stamps again. Contrived scarcity is manipulation doesn't matter who does it.

Roger

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Very well said Chip

February 24, 2004 Chip G <cgliedman-at-usa-dot-net>

No shortage of opinions
Well, since everybody and his/her brother has weighed in on the topic of cinderellas, labels, and illegals, I might as well join the fray, realizing that smarter minds than mine have given this more thought than I am willing to invest, but here goes (all views expressed are mine and mine alone and are not those of any philatelic organization, judiciary body, or Major League Baseball):

1 - Don't tell me what to collect. If it can be purchased legally, I can collect it.
2 - Don't make generalizations. I am sure we all can point out anecdotes where we all have made inconsistant or contradictory statements.

Definitions that seem to work for me (realizing the two points above):
Illegals: An illegal stamp is one that carries the name of a legitimate country or territory, but was not produced or printed by the postal administration of that country, and is not valid for postage anywhere in the world. (thanks, AskPhil - I like that definition). Selling such an item as a legitimate postage stamp would, in my mind, constitute fraud. There are, of course, exceptions. Art and Satire come to mind immediately. In my mind, it is not the role of the UPU to police these issues, but the country whose name is being used in "vain." Please don't give me the line that they are poor, third world countries. These people are not hard to find. I am sure that they can find a lawyer to handle a civil case case on a contingent basis.

By the way, just because the stamp was issued in one place, if it could be carried to the country, put on an envelope, and used to prepay a service provided by that government, it ain't illegal. One possible example of this is the first US postal issue. The US government did not distribute the first issue to post offices in California. However, if one bought a stamp in the East, carried it to the West, and used it on an envelope, it would prepay the postage.

Private or Local issues: A label that designated that a postal-like service was prepaid. For example, any of the early private posts, local posts, carriers, Wells Fargo stamps and franks would fall into this catagory. So would a label that showed that FedEx charges were prepaid. As would Swiss Hotel labels (they did show carriage from the hotel to the post office, right?). PS - Confederate postage stamps and provisionals did show prepayment for a service, though they were not recognized as valid outside of the Confederacy nor could they be used to prepay any service internationally.

Cinderellas: Labels that look like stamps, but that do not have any postal service connotation. There are a wide range of such items that are collected by Philatelists, and would be described by such philatelists to enhance the value of an otherwise plain cover. This can include Christmas seals, US Civil War Santiary Fair stamps, the Hussey labels that were sold to show time a letter was posted (this sheet sold for $1000 in the Carriers and Locals Society auction). It can also include labels that are branded as being from Armpitistan or Northwestern Islandia or wherever.

What is a problem is when such an item is represented to be something that would or could provide a service. That is fraud. (I think that the misrepresentation is fraud, not the issuance of the label, but I'm not a lawyer).

A question for all of you - could I issue a series of labels titled "The Dogs of California" that said "California" and "75c" on each and each depicted a specific breed of dog, if I did not represent them as anything other than labels?

As for exhibiting these, If they are labels with dogs on them, putting them in an exhibit of Dogs on Stamps is wrong (they ain't stamps - they're labels). Likewise, I personally have a problem with exhibits of such labels as a "philatelic" exhibit. They are label exhibits. However, if I want to exhibit in an exhibition that allows such items to be included, that's fine. I understand the rules going in. However, may be a misnomer to call such an exhibition a "Philatelic Exhibition" as it is really a "Philatelic and Label Exhibition."

Well, there's my 2.5 cents on the topic. Hope it helps the discussion.

Chip

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Dave P. No I didn't mean I thought the person was a fool. I think as long as they are "happy" is all that matters. Apparently the UPU, FIP, and others must think they are fools. I do understand the political reasons for trying to ban the "illegals" but I don't understand it down at the "chatboard" level.

February 24, 2004 Dave P

Brian M If I understand your post, you are saying that someone spending 50 cents on a pack of colourful stamps with pictures of animals on is more of a fool (financially) than someone who spends tens of thousand of dollars on a stamp which was printed in error with a 'plane upsidedown. Both are intrinsically worthless, the latter depends upon a stable and increasing market. This is no certainty (think tulip bulbs). Both have financial risks, but I know who gets the most smiles per buck.

February 24, 2004 08:25 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Dave P.,
Thanks for correcting my errors in identifying the destination of the cover. I've corrected it now.

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

From what I've seen at the stamp clubs I'vew belonged to not many understand the difference, or care to. They only collect them because they like the pictures. These aren't true philatelists, they just collect. And since they resemble stamps then they say they collect stamps.Two sayings come to mind. At what cost is happiness, and a fool and his money part quickly. Only the individual spending the money on these items can tell you which one of those two sayings fit them.

February 24, 2004 Dave P

Illegals.
I think the use of the terms cinderellas and illegals is becoming misleading. I totally agree people should collect what they want, without big brother looking over their shoulder. People collect cheese labels, bus tickets, all sots of stuff - that is fine. My objection is to deceptive practice. If a dealer has an item for sale it should be clear what it is, if it is a commercial label of no postal validity, or a propoganda issue, or a philatelic "local" it should be labelled as such - and all too often it is not. Many illegals are designed to deceive - why else include the name of a stamp issuing country? I can fully understand Ken's collecting interests, (and I have had various "cinderella" collections at times), all I ask is that those less knowledgable than Ken should be clearly aware of what they are buying, and that third parties names (such as charitable organisations) are not taken in vain. I also dislike the hypocrisy the subject attracts. Why for example do Gibbons refuse to list (or give abbreviated listings) for some "dune" issues, yet happily give full listing to the 1990 GB miniature sheet, face value 20p sold at £1.00?

February 24, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

My new item
Dave - You are correct! The 4c has a "Soncillo" pre-philatelic cancel. It'll be the first prefilatelica in my collection, on that particular issue.
Thanks for the advice on the Portugal item. I was already hopeful that I could resell it and recoup some of the cost, but if I can get more.........woohoo!

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Ken L. Could you define cinderella by APS definition? I'm curious as to just what all is included.

February 24, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Richard Frajola

The debate you wish to instigate has already been held, ably argued by both sides. Two years ago at a national stamp exhibition, a cinderella exhibit entered in the Display Class won the grand award and thus was accorded the honor of entry into the World Series of Philately. If I recall correctly, the then President of APS Peter McCann was a member of the jury. The reserve grand award went to Clyde Jennings for a traditional exhibit. Clyde took offense and protested his perceived insult to the Committee for the Accreditation of National Exhibitions and Judges, then chaired by Janet Klug, the current APS President. Her committee rejected Clyde's complaint and affirmed that the jury's awards were properly in accord with the rules as promugated by CANEJ and approved by the APS Board of Directors. Although I agree with the outcome, I had no involvement in any of this, since I was neither an elected leader of the Society nor a CANEJ member. But it should be clear from the outcome of that dispute, and in the Display Class judging criteria (which have been praised by the current and immediate past Presidents of FIP), that in the APS cinderellas are included in the meaning of philatelic.
 

February 24, 2004 Richard Frajola

I am not a member of APS. I was just trying to summarize my opinion regarding the current debate on illegals.

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Richard F. I'm curious if they should change their name now. Cinderellas which aren't postage are an accepted relm in the APS. Just curious, is it because they are considered stamps?

February 24, 2004 16:00 CET Paul B.

Richard F. Since I'm not a member of any stamp club or philatelic organization, I guess your post must be addressed to someone else than me? :-)

February 24, 2004 Richard Frajola

American Philatelic Society

February 24, 2004 15:53 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Illegals
Yeah, yeah... so we are different, that's fine with me. One say tomAtoes the other tomaaatoes, that's fine with me too. That's why this board is called "StampChat" and the other "Board for Philatelists" and the third "eBay Stamps Chat Board". None of the titel mentions "postage stamps", so I guess the regular folks are welcome on this board as well... :-)

February 24, 2004 Brian McInturff

Illegals So much talk on a subject. Let us ponder a minute. Just because a stamp has no "postal value" and was never intended to, does this make it "worthless"? No, quite the opposite. Topical collectors love the stamps from places without land so to speak. Why? because usually they are more eye appealing . Ships, Trains, dogs, flowers, etc. The same holds true in cards. Sports cards, then we have the Beatles, Cabbage Patch, Yo Gi(sp?), and the list goes on. What makes this such a great world for the most part is we can collect whatever we want to and who are you to tell us we can't, or shouldn't, or it's worthless, etc. I collect tied on Seals. They never were meant to have "Postal value" but I've got several that command over a 1000.00 each. I'm sure in some eyes here they would fall in the have nots list. A collection I'm trying to help a fellow collector out with is full of these "illegals". I asked him why he bought these over the past 50 years and if he understood they really weren't worth much. His reply was they made him happy and that's what collecting was about. I had to stop and think a minute, and then I realized he was right. He new what he was doing and it didn't matter to him because they(the stamps) made him happy. Just because we don't like an item or some high and mighty group has said they should be banned doesn't mean they or us are right. If the person buying is happy, that's all that really matters. And there are plenty of people buying these said items, otherwise they wouldn't be printing them. And as the 77 year old gentleman I know who has collected these, he knew when he started. And he knows there are others out there who will buy his stuff also.

February 24, 2004 Richard Frajola

Reverse Mentoring - "collect whatever you want" - that's fine by me. Please don't call it philately.

February 24, 2004 paul laniosz

ASSETS OF THE BOARD
KEN L. ----i think your being too critical,we all have our differances with each other , and i especially with DAVID at different times ,but that doesn t exclude the fact he is one of the most valuable people on any stamp chat board ,his experience and knowledge is something i and many others look up to .the problem of discussions is that it degrades to a personnel attack and not staying on the issue of the discussion . ..paul

February 24, 2004 Ken Lawrence

David Benson

I have observed Dave F's request for courtesy here. You have not. Taunts packaged as innocent questions communicate their underlying intent as effectively as a harlot's coy flirting. So either I answer your questions directly or indirectly, or I ignore them. You regard every answer that disagrees with you as an insult, making civil discourse all but impossible.

Your debating tactics are unscrupulous, just as the meaning of words varies according to your convenience. Most of the time you assume what needs to be demonstrated, a child's or a politician's method of debate. You say you earn your living selling stamps, but resent being called a dealer. Many of us here, or at least the readers, writers, and lurkers who direct off-list observations my way, regard you as so chronically dour that on the rare day when you awaken to a happy thought, you go back to bed to sleep it off. What would be left of life without eBay, APS, KL, BW, and illegals to whine about?

But in the event we all are mistaken about you, and that beneath that churlish exterior lies a generous spirit, let me try once more to enlighten you. I can do no less for a rabbi's son.

Here in America we teach stamp hobby beginners that everyone should collect what they like, and should brush off anyone who tries to instruct them in what not to collect. We have the most prolific and scholarly literature of any hobby in the world, so that they may learn all there is to know about the material that interests them, including what others say about it and why, and to introduce them to greater sophistication in every aspect.

Nearly every collector here began by collecting what their betters regarded variously as wallpaper, junk, or silly kid stuff. Many of us still own the items that got us started.

In the old days APS was a small snobbish elitist organization of the type you prefer, publishing monthly lists of banned stamps, eventually collecting them all into a Black Blot list. But when the APS leadership decided to reach out to recruit the huge numbers of ordinary stamp collectors, they realized that they too had begun to collect the same way as the rest of us, and changed their tune, thus becoming the most successful and admired stamp collector organization in the world.

The APS Black Blot corresponded to a similar effort by the FIP. Both organizations came to their senses as all those efforts came to naught. The FIP repealed its list of banned stamps, many of which you now can see displayed in internationally celebrated thematic exhibits; the APS quietly dropped the Black Blot program.

Today the FIP has fallen onto hard times, and thus has become hostage to Europe's most arrogant and avaricious stamp merchants. Thus FIP abjectly surrenders the centerfold space of Flash magazine to rants against illegals, and has mounted a new campaign in the old Black Blot style. It is destined to fail as abysmally as the earlier effort, but this time it may fatally wound the FIP.

Here in America, no reputable auction firm will ply a prospective consignor with unrealistic expectations, but many of the most reputable do accept consignments of the type that cause your nightmares, do sell them properly described, do have satisfied buyers and sellers. This causes the keepers of philatelic correctness no end of distress. You can read their tantrums in the AIJP journal.

I'm not so naive as to believe that answering any of your questions will evoke your gratitude, but as I indicated to you previously on the subject of eBay, we have now tried the patience of everyone else here, and we owe them the courtesy of moving on to new subjects.

 

February 24, 2004 paul

stamp market
BILL -----i think you missed my question ,i don t need investment advice ,if i wanted it ,i would ask about the yield curve spread on the ten year t-note, . but back to stamps ---- in the past year i notice the fine u.s. used material prices are getting higher and at auction the prices are stronger. the mint hinged material has remained the same . the PAN-AM flight covers are stronger . with the constant flow of mnh early stamps coming on the market the prices realized are low if their is no certif.with all the goofing around with the coils ,i believe we lost the general u.s. collector and it has become a few specialise only market . and at rasdale auction in chicago this past week the bulk common u.s. is very high in demand .......paul

February 24, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Bob in WA

No mail carrier or system anywhere in the world ever accepted the stamps of Azad Hind or Maluku Selantan. The former are listed in the Michel catalogs and bring spirited bids at auction. The latter are packet material that have glutted the beginner market ever since Julius and Henry Stolow promoted them in the 1950s. Both are illegals by any definition. Nazi Germany printed the Free India stamps, supposedly for use there after Subhas Chandra Bose's nationalist army had defeated the British and taken power. (Richard W, do you collect these?) An enterprizing supporter of South Moluccan separatists loyal to Holland issued enormous quantities of the latter, all in glorious color at a time when most of the world's real stamps were monochrome. The Moluccans tried unsuccessfully to break away from newly independent Indonesia, but ended up jailed, dead, or exiled to the Netherlands, where their tag-end remnant once hijacked a train to publicize their lost cause. Neither set of stamps got within 1,000 miles of their nominal issuers let alone to mail, but both are firmly establish cinderellas. Azad Hind stamps are must-have items for collectors of everything Nazi. The South Moluccan labels are popular among topical collectors because the feature colorful exotic flora and fauna, many of which are not seen on legal postage stamps.
 

February 24, 2004 Dave P

Cameroons Cover
Jim Tiny correction, the cover is not addressed to London. There are a couple of places with the name "Old Hill" in England, but I suspect this one is the town in the West Midlands, just North of Halesowen.

February 24, 2004 13:28 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Looked forward to shoot some photos outdoors during my vacation. Hmm, when it looks like this outside, it's probably better to sit and wait for better weather forecasts. Also considered to take a shoot of my desk, like so many others do - but hey, have to look myself in the mirror afterwards with good conscience. ;-)

February 24, 2004 04:06 Jim Watson

My second item is a cover from Hong Kong to Scotland in 1908. It went Via Siberia. The trip took 25 days.

February 24, 2004 David Benson

RB, the 4 Cuartos, put the Portuguese piece up and you will get you should get more than your total cost.

David B.

February 24, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Thank you e-snipe!
Sorry for the double post Dave, but it's late and I'm tired.

I love coming home from work to find that e-snipe has successfully been doing my bidding for me.
I had THIS LOT bookmarked since it started, hoping that the title would not draw alot of attention from Spanish the collectors, or maybe hoping that if they did find it they wouldn't bother to scroll to the right to see the rest of the picture. Well, I got home tonight and found that e-snipe got me the lot for less than 1/2 of what I bid, and I see that my usual competitors are not amongst the bidders. Hooray for me! It's the first interesting ebay item I've won in quite a while.
Anyone want to guess which item it is that I was so interested in?

February 24, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Thank you e-snipe!
I love coming home from work to find that e-snipe has successfully been doing my bidding for me.
I had THIS LOT bookmarked since it started, hoping that the title would not draw alot of attention from Spanish the collectors, or maybe hoping that if they did find it they wouldn't bother to scroll to the right to see the rest of the picture. Well, I got home tonight and found that e-snipe got me the lot for less than 1/2 of what I bid, and I see that my usual competitors are not amongst the bidders. Hooray for me! It's the first interesting ebay item I've won in quite a while.
Anyone want to guess which item it is that I was so interested in?

February 23, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Of course the Hindenberg disaster at Lakehurst NJ on May 6, 1937 permanently interrupted the travels of this cover. The uncanceled stamps on this cover stand as a reminder of this tragedy.

February 23, 2004 Roger Heath

Another New Addition
Matt -
If I'd known you were going to show a picture of your daughter I would have posted this yesterday when it arrived (no it didn't, I must compete with cute daughters, and I'll know six months from now that I've had my new razor for six months)
Here is my new aquisition. I had a copy of the first Zurich razor cancel used for 3 weeks in 1898, prior to disappearing for 6 months for modifications. The new razor cancel on the wrapper, 27.III.09. is a copy of the last Zurich canceller 8 days before it went out of service permanently, no more Zurich razors. So unless I find a date between October 26 and November 9, 1898 I won't get an older example, and I will need to get a copy between 27.III.09 and 5.IV.09 to get a later use.
I appreciate anyone taking the time to look for razor cancels.Please keep in mind that some are quite common and a couple I've never seen. With a total of 46 variations, double if you count receiver uses, I don't give up looking.

Roger

February 23, 2004 Jim Griffith <griffith@dweeb.org> http://album.dweeb.org
 

Jim

February 23, 2004 David Benson

David M., If all the stamps are good, not remainders, reprints or forgeries then possibly genuine cancelled par complaisance. Can't see any reason why someone would have applied a fake cancel

February 23, 2004 David Moser <stamphick@dospalos.org>

David

February 23, 2004 Anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of cute philatelic babies (Matt--I presume she's a legal issue & she'll soon be creating her own wallpaper), literate posts, and the general health of the hobby.

February 23, 2004 David Benson

David M., in RL, page 507 notes type C1 but larger lettering. It mentions 2 sizes 22 1/2mm. & 23 with inner circle 13mm. without year date in Black, Blue & Purple used 1893-5.
It seems strange to be so clearly cancelled on a high face value stamp.

David B.

February 23, 2004 David Moser <stamphick@dospalos.org>

CSA covers
Brian.. Don't burn your CSA covers. I will buy them all, paying in confederate money of course, which I have been advised to save "just in case" since early childhood.<>p>David

February 23, 2004 Brian R

My oft ignored plea for brotherly love, is directed to all philatelists universally.

February 23, 2004 David Moser <stamphick@dospalos.org>

David

February 23, 2004 David Benson

Brian, if you have a look at my post, it was extremely polite, a simple question where I asked Bill if he gave advice to anyone that offered illegals for sale. If you want to have a go at someone, ask Bill to be polite or if anyone out there wants to ask him the same question see if he gives them a polite answer or a sharp retort.

David B.

February 23, 2004 Brian R

Now if you'll excuse me,
I have to go burn all my CSA covers.
for I suspect they are illegals.
They were issued by the insurgents,
and paid for by unrecognized money,
That won't even buy a stick of gum today.
 

February 23, 2004 David Benson

Bill, I should have expected your response as whenever I ask a polite question to either you or to K.L. I get insulting comments in reply. Would you have given a reply if someone else had asked the same question, presumably something like " we don't handle that type of material, try to sell it on Ebay, they will sell anything ".

David B.

February 23, 2004 David Benson

Bill, I thought you would answer, it is a simple question, has anyone approached your company and asked you to place the material in Auction and evaluate it. As far as I know no stamp Auction company in the world would accept it and they would advise the seller that the material is absolutely worthless and cannot be included in an Philatelic Auction sale.
A polite answer would have been nicer instead of the one you gave,

David B.

February 23, 2004 20:29 Dave F. (moderator)

Matt L: That's a happy baby! (This wasn't right after she got the checkbook, was it?) Thanks very much for sharing.

February 23, 2004 Bill Weiss

Various
NOMAD; THe price the 345H coil brought is public record. It was $15,000., which was the "start bid", and only bid. My opinion is that since imperf coils are relegated to the "back-of-the-book" by Scott, that most collectors choos to ignore them. I also heard some comments that since a pair of an imperf coil basically looks like a similarly-cut pair of an imperf sheet stamp, that it visually doesn't impress anyone. While that may be true, my educated guess is that if Scott would put the imperf coils where they belong, which is mixed right in with the regularly-issued material in the front of the book, that this as-of-now unique coil par would bring $50/100,000. the first time it's offered publicly.
PAUL; The stamp market is strong. I can really only speak about US material. All public auctions have had strong sales recently, Bennett's sales, Siegel's, etc. We are a tiny firm compared to them, but have a strong client base since we've been around now for 30 years, so we all pretty much tap off the same base. Always in the greatest demand are stamps and covers of high quality. Folks like to kid Jim Griffiths about his "XF-NH" habit, but believe me, the stuff he collects will get more valuable as time goes on simply because there will never be a greater supply of high-quality stamps and there is never enough to meet the demand, thus the prices are always impressive for such superior specimens. I'm sure the same is true of the stamps of most any country.
On the other hand, I always tell folks that if I honestly knew for a fact exactly what stamps were definitely going to increase in price, wouldn't I logically be filthy rich? Trust me, I'm not. Thus, to treat stamps as an investment is a mistake. It's a hobby to be enjoyed (first and foremost), and the possible financial increases are a second thought.
Lastly, if Mr Benson thought his question was really going to be answered by me, he must be joking, and he ought to get a real life instead of beating dead horses.

February 23, 2004 Marius

My best score is still 20 which I have achieved 3 times.

February 23, 2004 Dana Krueger

Dana

February 23, 2004 Dana Krueger

Dana

February 23, 2004 paul

shreves auction
DAVID B. -----just got in the mail today ,the NEAL M. ALLEN collection of the BRITISH EMPIRE from SHREVES . amazing quality of material and many items for your area . if only i had a few extra bucks ,the material is stunning ......paul

February 23, 2004 Dana Krueger

Regards, Dana
 

February 23, 2004 David Benson

Bill, have you ever had anyone come into your Auction and ask for a valuation on their material, which was all illegals from " never heard of land ". What was your advice,

David B.
 

February 23, 2004 David Benson

Jim, as I am on a diet, I cut the intake to just chicken, potatoes, pappadums, cucumber yoghurt, baked cashews, various spicy dishes and I only went back once to refill my plate. We were the only 2 non Sri Lankans there and we used forks and spoons, the others used 5 fingered scoops.

David B.

 

February 23, 2004 Chris

What Will Be Hot When
A useful rule of thumb for when some collectible will re-ignite is:

When the 12 year old boys that were impressed by it hit their 40's, they will
try to buy it.

This has happened in the car market. The model A, model T style cars that were very collectible
have seen a price drop as the generation that oo'ed and aah'ed over then dies off. Now muscle cars
are the rage (if I'd only put a GTO away ...). In about 25 more years, POGS will be back again.
Will this effect hit the illegals? Since few kids have much experience with them now, I suspect that
they won't have a price run up in 30 years.

Chris - won't be buying Elton John sheets from Whatalottaland as an investment any time soon

February 23, 2004 Matt Liebson

Drive-by baby picture post, since my little girl just turned 6 months today. (this is a different photo than the one posted on the other 2 boards).

 

February 23, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Starving Professor
David B
All of that Sri Lankan and Indonesian food is bad for your figure.
Sheryll's pictures do not lie.
Next time, eat half and send me the doggy bag!!

February 23, 2004 paul laniosz

auctions
BILL WEISS----nice to hear your so efficient,hope you got your sellers prices they are happy with, and not too much is going back . can you give some general idea of what prices did,what areas are the strongest and new areas showing improve prices, im not interested in the price per stamp but a overview with all your experience throwen in ....paul

February 23, 2004 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

February 23, 2004 nomad55

Bill...if you (with Ken L's concurrence) don't mind, what did the 3-cent imperf horizontal coil sell for?

February 23, 2004 David Benson

back from lunch, went to a Sri Lankan all you can eat (Burp),

anyone with a couple of hours of spare time, wade through all this. It will give you more details about the illegals than you would ever want to know. Why anyone true philatelist wouldn't abhor what it is all about is beyond me.

http://www.geocities.com/ttcsinc/roughtrade1.htm

http://www.geocities.com/ttcsinc/roughtrade2.htm

David B.

February 23, 2004 Bill Weiss

Good Grief!!
Good grief, I go and hold a dumb public auction, and suddenly this board has turned political! (Just kidding!). I should have known that brother Lawrence was in the middle of this, as he's probably the most non-conventional thinker I know, but at the same time, a thoroughly honorable, hard-working, super-visionary that I admire. I would not begin to enter this discussion on illegals vs illegals, only because, to me, anything issued after, say, 1925, is trash! (Just kidding!).
We are now done with our auction billing - probably the fastest two-person operation in the world. I get a big kick when I win lots from "BIG" auction houses, like Bennett, and wait three weeks or longer to receive lots, when we can get the job done in two days! By tomorrow all lots will be shipped and by Wednesday, all unsold lots will be in the mail to sellers. Then, to top it off, we also PAY owners after only 30 days, by far the fastest in the world. Most houses take 45-60. Sorry that I'm bragging. I'll quit now, but why do you think someone like Ken L. sells through our auctions?

February 23, 2004 Duncan Doenitz

The odd smell in the marketplace

David Benson had the best analogy for fakes, forgeries and illegals when he said it is like vendors selling rancid meat.

Now, we could discuss unusual dietary habits in some strange countries, or some of the foulest cheeses out there. Whatever. It doesn't make the smell go away, bad meat is bad meat. The solution is to clean up the marketplace. Or at least to try, surely some progress can be made, but not by giving up or making excuses. When discussing stamps, there are MANY issues that are just obviously bad. Some of the "legal" postal issues are meant to separate collectors from their money, sure. But at least they are valid for postal use.

I understand clearly that there are stamp issues whose validity is in question. What I fail to see is why those exceptions, or the abuse of the system by some valid postal entities, means we should accept even more abuse in the form of flagrant illegals. Or forgeries either for that matter.

Duh!!!

Don't try to sell a rotted chicken corpse and tell me its OK because Limburger cheese also smells bad; just like that chicken, it ain't gonna fly.

Belated thanks

Thanks to John Gordon for the link to the Providence Post Office a couple days ago. And thanks to Ken Pugh for taking on the bad guy and winning, and thanks to Ken Lawrence for explaining grooved gum. Ken L now that I know what to look for it is obvious, I checked out some of the early rotary stamps (booklet panes) and the grooved gum really stands out on some of them.

Duncan Doenitz

"Proud new APS member. There goes the neighborhood."

February 23, 2004 Jim (jaywild)

My Latest Post
If anyone wants to email me privately about my last post, my addy is jfdire"at"earthlink"dot"net. (The "at" of course should be read as @, and the "dot" as .)

February 23, 2004 Jim (jaywild)

February 23, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Anne

Your summary on Marxism is right. Also, you'll observe that in this debate, whereas both Richard Warren and I take pains to explain the reasons for our opposing views based upon our respective political, historical, and philosophical analyses of stamps and stamp collecting in midpassage, David Benson believes that merely asserting the hegemonic point obviates the need for intelligent explanations, regardless of where stamp collecting might be headed in the future. I think your other points are valid as well. Why should we agree that selling children fantasy stamps is any more harmful or less virtuous than selling them the legal stamps of Redonda? Because we want to be on the elite list of invitees to view Princess Grace's marital bed the next time our self-appointed arbiters of propriety debauch in Monte Carlo?

February 23, 2004 Anne

BTW, I think the antiques market/stamp collecting analogy will become closer as stamps lose their functional connection to mail in the public's eye (to pick up on one of Ken's points from earlier)

February 23, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

I have to agree with both sides here.
If the stamp is usable for postage in its home country, it is legal.
If it is subject to a fine or imprisonment for using in the home country at the time it is manufactured and sold, it is illegal.
If a new regime declares the previously defined illegals, legal then they are legal.
On the other hand even "staid" countries like the UK are now up to 14 issues of commemoratives per year. These are aimed solely at the collectors market and are, quite frankly driving the serious collector away from collecting.
To have every new legal issue of every country in the world on a yearly basis would run to about $50,000 per year (I'm guessing) but I know Linns has figures.

February 23, 2004 Bob in WA

Apologies, David. I should have put your name in bold, too.

February 23, 2004 4:32 pm Bob in WA

All that said, these are still items that pay some mailman to carry a piece of mail, and regardless of issuing entities and squabbles of legitimacy, that is what makes it legal for me. And I still agree completely with David that they are a different kettle of fish than these horrid miniature sheets with "stamps" that no mailman on earth would lift a finger to do duty for. Some have the names of real countries on them, against their wishes, and others are purposely misspelled or total fantasy. I agree David, that stuff should rightly be banned from stamp shows. I worry about naive youngsters parting with too much for them, thinking they are entering stamp collecting, to find disillusionment when they learn they are just pretty pieces of paper, no more. Perhaps it is too difficult a problem to sort out, and both "sides" of this discussion are partly right, but to me a simple test is: "Is there a mail carrier or system anywhere in the world that will accept this piece of paper as payment for their carrying service?" Is that a clear enough distinction to work? It's MY definition of legal or illegal, for want of a better one. But I'm open to further enlightenment on whatever I have overlooked.

February 23, 2004 Anne

BTW, I'm waiting for the NH craze to hit CTOs.

February 23, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Illegals again

David B,

I guess you haven't noticed that pleas imploring APS to join the crusade against so-called illegals haven't persuaded even one leader of the organization to enlist, despite the eloquent prose of Richard Warren, the doomsaying of Les Winick, and the wails of so many stamp agents, the UPU, FIP, AIJP, IFSDA, ASCAT, AFINSA, Alexander Kroo, and Prince Ranier. (Sorry for listing you among such piffle and pelf, Richard, but you brought this upon yourself.)

Being accustomed to the minority position on so many issues, I find myself in the surprising position of holding the default position on this issue, though no one else bears any responsibility for the views I have presented here.

Linn's Stamp News, the weekly stamp paper with the largest circulation in the world, has repeatedly denounced the anti-illegals crusade in its editorials, though it also publishes Winick's columns that reflect your minority viewpoint.

February 23, 2004 01:18 CET Paul B.

Jim W-S Very nice example of overprinted stamps with NVI (No Value Indication).

February 23, 2004 01:15 CET Paul B.

Illegals
David B. Quote: "The problem is the current huge quantities that are being marketed and are produced without any authority of any government whatsoever."
Well, I think the current huge quantities that are being marketed, produced with authority of governments just to increase revenue are just as damaging to the hobby as the ones you mention.
With electronic communications on the rise and physical mail production decreasing - there is absolutely no incentive to increase the production, diversity of postage stamp production.

February 23, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Sorry Paul, I was composing as you were asking.
Then I have to go offline to scan.
But here is Karabahk cover.

February 23, 2004 David Benson

Paul, there is no problem about some illegals being authorised especially those during war time however the problem is not whether those were authorised or not as they as most people agree that they are fully collectable whether authorised or not. Thatis the main problem, when the subject of illegals are brought up, some that now have full recognition are used as an excuse why all should be allowed to be sold. The problem is the current huge quantities that are being marketed and are produced without any authority of any government whatsoever. Some from countries that are non existant. These are the only ones that should be declared illegal as they are a blight on the hobby. They have been banned for sales at most Stamp Exhibtions.

Heading out, PO, lunch, shopping etc.

David B.

February 23, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Northern Cyprus
Nomad,

Sure I have covers, both local and international. However, the champion collector of this material is APS Executive Director Robert E. Lamb, the retired United States Ambassador to Cyprus.

February 23, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

It would seem that the stamps of Karabahk can now make it to the outside world unaccompanied by Armenian stamps, as my recent acquisition will affirm.
Mind you, so did stamps of UK with Eddy 8 on them.

Big stamp day today, for which I have to thanks Rich and Terry and Shreves auction house.

February 23, 2004 00:56 CET Paul B.

Illegals
David B. You must add some more to the score since I was introduced to the phenomenon by Mr. Anker Blaabjerg (now deceased), who had a keen interest in everything related to German language areas in Europe - German Reich, Austro-Hungarian Empire, plebiscites etc. His speciality was forerunners/illegals. I know of more people with the same opinions on this issue like Ken L and I.

February 23, 2004 Anne

Point of information: Marxism is not the same precise thing as communism. Marxism is a much broader theoretical framework for understanding social processes. Communism is a specific type of political system that was based on Marxist theory with massive inputs from Lenin and others. The draconian methods used in the Soviet USSR and other communist countries are not an intrinsic part of Marxism. Perhaps Ken could clarify this. (BTW I'm not a Marxist by any means, but I find the perspective useful at times for explaining human behavior--just as I find capitalism and free market thinking useful at other times.

February 23, 2004 00:51 CET Paul B.

Illegals
Jim W-S If I remember correctly you won an eBay auction by a vendor situated in Nagorno-Karabagh. Did you receive the item in a cover affixed stamps from that postage stamp issueing entity?

February 23, 2004 David Benson

Paul, sorry, make it 2 people in the world,

David B.

 

February 23, 2004 00:45 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

Illegals
David B. I sympathize much with Ken L's point of views concerning illegals and you must know it after more than one discussion on this and the other board regarding this issue.
nomad55 I've got a commercially used printed matter cover from TR of Northern Cyprus mailed to Denmark. I've shown it previously to this crowd of people.

February 23, 2004 David Benson

Ken, As far as I know, you are the only person in the world that has that view on illegals, especially the large commercial & retail sale of items that are denounced by the UPU members including USA. How does it feel to be out of step with the rest of the world or is it all of them that are out of step.

David B.

February 23, 2004 nomad55

Ken....do you own any commerical covers from TR of Northern Cyprus?

February 23, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Bob
A possible candidate for an answer to your question may be the stamps of karabahk. At one point they were legal for use within Karabahk, but for external use had to be accompanied by Armenian stamps. This was a source of much political dispute, since Karabahk is an enclave within Azerbaijan.

February 23, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Illegals that are legal

Almost all stamps issued by insurgents, underground political movements, and spies, are illegal according to the ruling order of the country, yet those same stamps are regarded as legitimate forerunners of regular issues whenever the people who issued them take power.

Another example would be areas of contested sovereignty. The entire world has declarde the stamps of the Turkish Republic of Norther Cyprus to be ilegal, except for the authority that issues them, and Turkey. Yet no other stamps are valid on mail posted there, least of all the legal stamps issued by the legitimate government of Cyprus.

Even within postal administrations such situations arise. In Fujeira, two rival stamp agents had contracts, and each had a faction of the governing sheikhdom declaring the other's issues illegal, but all of them were sold at the post office and properly used on mail.

February 23, 2004 Lavar Taylor

nomad Thanks for the heads up. I do collect German naval mail. Cancel #14 was used by the ship General during WWI. The ship was in Turkish waters then. Probably the most common of the German naval mail from Turkey during the war. Worth maybe $20.

February 23, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Richard W

In these days of austerity and occasional desperation, many things are conceivable that would have been forbidden in the past, but I have no knowledge that would support or refute such an assertion.

My questions are, who would be buying, who would be selling, what products and with what currencies?

February 23, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Just got back from court. Was, once again, bounced by the prosecution as a potential juror in a criminal case. Can't understand why a prosecutor wouldn't want someone who handles tax-related criminal defense matters on the jury. :>) I could figure out all of the problem areas in the case just from the questions being asked to potential jurors. This was a methamphetamine possession case.

February 23, 2004 2:36 pm Bob in WA

Canada 12 pence

Only a half hour left on THIS important lot. Reserve is met, up to $34 k. Should be an exciting finish, perhaps!

February 23, 2004 2:28 pm Bob in WA

Illegals -- I have very much enjoyed the discourse with Ken and David and others, and thank them for their illuminating posts. I tend to agree that illegals are a scourge, but I mean true illegals, something cranked out of someone's laser printer for the sole purpose of selling a piece of paper worth 1¢ for $10. If it is produced under the auspices of a true government and is legal for postage (even if the only way is to buy it in a stamp store in London and send it to a local resident to use) and it is possible for a true commercial use to exist, then I would consider such an item worthy of the chase. In that light, I am intrigued by David's phrase, roughly 24 hours back, saying, "because some of the legals are not really legal and some of the illegals are legal..." I assume the aforementioned Redonda is an example of the first part, but what is an example of illegals that are legal? I probably missed the example, but I thought illegal MEANT produced by private parties for commercial or whimsical reasons but not valid for postage. I'd appreciate education on what is referred to there.

February 23, 2004 Richard Warren

When I have the energy, I'll have to put you right about dear old Tony Benn. Though he was, incidentally, the Postmaster General who presided over a fairly golden age of GB stamp design (IMHO) during the 'sixties Wilson administration, and credit to him for that.

February 23, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

I've seen some flaky overprints in my time, but this one is a real winner.

February 23, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Chris

There are plenty of chat boards where the debate you desire is welcome, but this is not the place.

February 23, 2004 nomad55

John F....that's perfect!!! Thanks.
I agree that images should be left up on the server (at least for a few months) for doofuses [doofi??] like me.

February 23, 2004 John Forsyth

NOMAD
Nomad, here is that page from Ivy Mader
I wish they would leave the images on the server for us!!

February 23, 2004 Rich Degillio

Ivy & Mader
nomad....I have a copy at home but my computer crapped out. If you don't get the info by tomorrow i'll post it for you.
Rich

February 23, 2004 Chris

A question About Marxism
The question about Marxism that puzzles me, is why has it
not been able to compete in the Kulturekampf of the last 100 years?
If it were a superior way of organizing things, the countries that
embraced it should have been able to out-compete the capitalist
countries. They should have ended up with the higher standard of
living, and the emigration flow should have been into them, not
out of them.

What we have seen is that no developed nation has every gone over
to a Marxist organization, and the countries that have been Marxist
have kept falling further and further behind until they abandon it.
Now there are only a few Marxist states left, and they will
only stay that way until their current leader passes from the scene.
Doesn't this suggest something about the viability of Marxism?

Chris - capitalist pig

February 23, 2004 Tom Mazza

Don Mackert

Saw your request while catching up after the weekend. I would be wary of the Herst-Zaretsky book on fancies, as Zaretsky was a well known faker of those markings. I'd be more comfortable with the Skinner-Eno listings.

tcm

February 23, 2004 Marius

Did you know that Lenin's tomb is just another communist plot.

February 23, 2004 nomad55

Taking a long shot here......
Does anyone have a copy of the Ivy Mader catalog from their sale the end of January 2004?
For research purposes I need info on a cover franked with 400A, the 10 cent Pan-Pac commemorative cancelled in August 1913 - city used from, to who addressed, lot #.
It would be great if I could get a scan of the page out of the catalog.

February 23, 2004 nomad55

Lavar
Does this card "float your boat"?

February 23, 2004 06.23 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 23, 2004 05:23 Jim Watson

Retail Ethics
Comments on the changing face of retail ethics.

February 23, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Indulgence

Dana,

Sure I'll indulge you, but I hope this won't get out of hand. The eternal political question is, Why don't exploited and oppressed people rise up, overthrow their tormentors, and be free?

Historically, it was obvious that they were held in bondage by the armed might of the state, as agents for the ruling class, but that whenever the opportunity arose, they did either revolt or flee. Those are the themes of Exodus, of the American Revolution, of the French Revolution, of Abolitionism, of Irish Republicanism, and so forth.

But in the twentieth century, that theory no longer worked, so (Marxist) theorists looked for an explanation. Lenin's answer was Imperialism. (Cecil Rhodes purchased the allegiance of British workers by sharing the loot he pillaged from Central and Southern Africa, by this theory. Lenin actually quoted Rhodes to that effect.)

Antonio Gramsci had a subtler and more elegant answer. Ruling classes project not just their power (armed might), but also their legitimacy, through every cultural medium of their social orders (religion, press, art, literature, and so forth), so that masses of people absorb and internalize this world view (no English term encompasses the grandeur of this philosophical concept, so here we borrow the German word Weltanschauung).

Gramsci named the concept of social discipline and cohesion achieved by internalizing an alien word view Hegemony, and as Ann wrote, this notion has spread well beyond Marxism.

In the debate here, Richard Warren felt that I had accused his view of being conspiratorial. So I replied, no conspiracy is needed to explain the phenomena we're debating. Conspiracies take effect only when hegemony fails, as in the fascist coup that imprisoned and murdered Antonio Gramsci.

Now back to stamps.

February 23, 2004 Jim Watson

My second item is a picture postcard from Peru to the United States in 1908. Take a peek at the Institute of Hygiene!
 

February 23, 2004 12:12 CET Paul B. <philaweb at (remove) yahoo dot dk>

After reading the board a losung comes to mind: "Cummunism will prevail, communism is at the horizon!", someone would add: "Let's go get it now!" *subtle, subtle* ;-)

February 23, 2004 Chris B

Knud-Erik - not sure I understand your questions on the Japanese picture cards are - you wish to know what town in Japan they were sent from?

No idea about value. The second is a "view of Mt Fuji from Senken Temple" I believe. The date on the first could be Jan 1, 1901. Not sure about the year. The english address has been translated into Japanese on that card.

February 23, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Postal History
Today's featured item of postal history focuses on Australia and Hong Kong. This is a registered envelope from Australia, KGV 4 1/2d, sent from Sydney on May 19, 1927 to Hong Kong. Per the reverse , it was received June 11, 1927. Don't know much about the envelope (or even the rate), perhaps some our friends from Oz can help out, but a nice usage to HK.

February 23, 2004 Lavar Taylor

I remember studying Marx in college. In fact I got really lousy Marx in Engelslish. I was always Lenin my textbook to the good looking babe next to me and never studied. And sometimes I was late for class, had to Trotsky really fast across the quad so I wouldn't miss the lecture. Then there was the Russian Revolution, where the Marxists deposed the Czar, the Czarina, and their children, the Czardines.

February 22, 2004 Anne

Good night to all and to all sweet dreams of expanding albums, social science jargon (with some good ideas underneath it), and of course Joe Hill.

February 22, 2004 Roger Heath

Brian
Hey,
When you get the hang of this tricky stuff, I'll let you mix me a mai tai. Remember the umbrella is placed in the open position! Nice surf today and weather is perfect, again.

Roger

February 22, 2004 20:35 Dave F. (moderator)

Brian: Hmm. The info that was in the link in your original post was the regular url for the auction, rather than just for the image. I know sometimes I've thought I hit copy but didn't, or hit paste again (where I was trying to copy), and then the next I paste I just get the last thing I really copied. Anyway, doesn't matter. Just really appreciate your flexibility! Thanks!

February 22, 2004 Brian R

Dave F
I don't mind at all. In fact, I had clicked on properties for the code (ebay hosting), copied & pasted, and was kind of amazed that the whole auction came up. I assume you have to omit something to get just the pic, but such magic is beyond me.

February 22, 2004 19:55 Dave F. (moderator)

Brian: If you don't mind too much, I switched that over to just the image, rather than the whole auction. But it certainly does beg the question, what were they thinking? A charitable view would be that they forgot to go back and check the auction after they uploaded it.

February 22, 2004 Chris

Colorado Postcard
I live within artillery range of Jamestown.
It was an odd place during the boom times
and it remains a strange place today.

Chris - still gold in them there hills

February 22, 2004 Dana Krueger

Best regards,
Dana

February 22, 2004 Brian R

the ebay scan of the day

February 22, 2004 Brian R

pinholes
I still say, that if your a hold out devotee of using a cork board to display your stamps, aim for the eyes. It makes for a truely surreal experience if you later exhibit them, and backlight the frames. :o)

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Roger
Those pictures are great.
Sound from this new computer is mind-blowing though.
And if I had any DVD's I may never make another posting.
I'm in hog-heaven :-Þ

February 22, 2004 nomad55

Pro, et al.
In 1938, air mail special delivery cost 16 cents.
this cover is correctly paid.

February 22, 2004 Roger Heath

New Screen Test
Jim - Here are a few photos that may look good on your new screen.
1
2
3
Green foliage!

Roger );>)

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Jim, ask for a scan of the Queens back side,

David B.

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Whoa, using new screen for first time.
Mind-blowing!!!
Will show picture tomorrow.

Bill C

I could disagree with David B and conclude pin hole.

February 22, 2004 Roger Heath

Odds and Ends
Kevin -
Thanks much. Duly noted and that's how they will be described.

Bill C -
The earliest LASER repros. Legal Authentic Spirati Experimental Reproductions.

Roger


 

February 22, 2004 David Moser <stamphick@dospalos.org>

David

February 22, 2004 Kevin LaFrance <sheetguy2> http://www.stores.ebay.com/sheetguy2
 

PROOFs
ROGER....They are card proofs. The Justice Dept. items are SCOTT #O25P4-O34P4...cv $8. each and the Navy Dept is #O35P4-O45P4...cv$8.00 each also. Hope this helps.
Kevin

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Has anyone heard about any forthcoming interviews with any member of the Ebay Stamp heirarchy,

David B.

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Ken,

it is obvious but Ebay should be paying some of the APS labor costs. Looks like it will be an interesting committee meeting.

David B.

February 22, 2004 Dave De Roo

British Embossed Revenues

Thanks to Dave P and Dave Benson for the info.
Also (once again) to iomoon who put me onto the Booth catalog (which is now on order).

February 22, 2004 Ken Lawrence

David B

APS cannot transfer its responsibility for accountable decisions to anyone else. That ought to be obvious.

February 22, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Daves P and B

In the piracy of trademarked and copyrighted images, gummed labels are not high on the enforcers’ priority list. Also, it’s well established that governments such as China are the worst offenders, which tends to reduce one’s grief over infringements by private job printers.

I think I mentioned previously that my most important copyright has been traduced by Ancestry.com, a jointly owned trust of the Mormon Church, Microsoft Corporation, and AOL/Time Warner.
 

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Sorry, that was for BC,

David B.

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Jim, I think it is only something reflective in the glassine that the item was scanned in.

David B.

February 22, 2004 Roger Heath

Finally a US Question!!
Here are obviously proofs printed on card, no gum, no hingemarks, but really clean looking prints. I've been asked to include them with Swiss items I'll be selling in the near fiuture. I only have a Scott Classic cat, and only see "stamps". LOL. Any idea what these should sell for and how I identify them?

Thanks, Roger

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Ken, thanks for your answer and I aplaud you for being so honest in informing everyone about the shortcomings of the arrangement. As I see it, Ebay 100%, APS 0%.

It appears to me that it is an APS problem to try to solbe the situation as they walked into the arrangement without knowing the full details about how much would be involved.

It looks like it is back to square one to clean up the crap on Ebay as this didn't work. No use blaming finances for it, it was just that Ebay was too clever.

In the past a Pinkie would appear out of the Blue and sometimes something could be done but they have disappeared from Ebay Chat and Ebay doesn't answer any emails.

I don't understand why a Director is vetting material, there must be plenty of ordinary members without any official positions who should be able to do some of the work. If he is handling all world material is that after it has been perused by Stamp Watch Group which does not get all the queries as Safeharbor scraps them before they get that far.

David B.



 

February 22, 2004 15;56 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

Art
Malolo Roger There was beauty in the olden days.

February 22, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Re: Cuba

Richard W: Sorry, I don’t have your answer. It’s been more than a decade since my last visit there, and George Bush is determined to prevent me from going back again any time soon. (What goes around comes around. In 1981, I had to become a plaintiff in a class action lawsuit against Ronald Reagan in order to receive my subscription copies of Filatelia Cubana and other mail from Cuba, which had been confiscated by the U.S. government. Evidently collecting legal stamps here is a subversive activity.)

When my old friend José Luis Guerra was alive, Cuba printed and promoted stamps only for governments such as Sandinista Nicaragua and independent Angola. (Guerra had been a guerrilla fighter with Fidel in the 1950s, was Cuba’s most celebrated philatelist and postal historian as long as anyone can recall, and directed the National Postal Museum in Havana until his retirement.)

But having asked the question, you must suffer my story. In those days, the Cuban national stamp agency Coprefil also served as the philatelic distributor and promoter for other countries’ stamps it produced, with exemplary efficiency for a country often hampered by mañana culture. Thus all Nicaraguan stamps printed in Cuba were duly listed in catalogs as soon as they came out. Despite the U.S. embargo, Scott is always up to date on philatelic information from Havana.

To this day Scott doesn’t list the Sandinistas’ own provisional issues [over]printed in Managua, though Scott’s editor borrowed my complete collection of them for examination in 1985, and despite my series of articles in Linn’s documenting their commercial usage.

Odder still, the Michel catalog listed the Managua provisionals and the Havana regular issues, but omitted the wonderful Literacy issue of 1981 that had been printed in Portugal and thus not distributed by Coprefil. Worse, Michel had a footnote that denounced that set as illegal. I had purchased mine at the Masaya post office, an amazing place where chickens scratched in the dirt floor and feathers flew while people waited in line for counter service. Also, I had (still have) commercial covers franked with those stamps. So I duly wrote them up for Linn’s. The next edition of Michel Mittelamerika dropped the defamatory note and included them in proper sequence.
 

February 22, 2004 15:51 Bill Claghorn (claghorn1p) http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/
 

OI eye
IOmoon What happened to the Queens eye on this currently listed lot?

February 22, 2004 Ken Lawrence

David B

At present the most important duty for every member of the APS staff is to prepare for the impending move of our headquarters from State College to Bellefonte, the most ambitious philatelic project in history as far as I can determine. Yet I discovered last week that one of our senior managers spends 30 or more hours per week vetting challenged eBay lots (stamps of the whole world, for whichever eBay venue they are presented), and advises eBay on them. That is intolerable and cannot continue, but proves that this is a full-time activity.

I suggest you organize the Honest EBay Sellers Society, and charge HESS members sufficient dues that you and your fellow good citizens could pay APS the cost of hiring a staff person dedicated to that job alone.
 

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Ken, L.

still waiting for explanation on your statement,

Could you please explain what this comment that you made means,

" Right now I think the eBay stamp complaints system is filled to capacity, so until that problem is resolved, teaching more people how to employ it is destined to evoke expectations that cannot be met. But if sufficient resources can be devoted to it, your suggestion would eventually be appropriate. "

David B.

February 22, 2004 Matt Liebson

Pro: just back from a day-long dealer open house (some goodies will hopefully be on show later).

That cover does seem to be 2 cents overpaid -- 6 cents for airmail and 10 cents for special delivery. Probably sender only had 3 cent stamps available.

February 22, 2004 Richard Warren

La Lutte Continue!

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Hope I don't screw up html this time but Dangit.

February 22, 2004 Roger Heath

Ken
Thanks for taking the time to write here, nice column. I hope you can publish it somewhere and actually receive a monetary reward. It's my belief that 99.9% of the writers and readers of these chat boards have collecting foremost in their hearts and object to those who would harm us solely for financial gain. Our areas of interest are certainly individual choices, but it still hurts to see philately under attack from those who aren't either collectors or philatelists.

Roger

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

And while topicals are the topic of discussion, here isIt is interesting that whenever the "suspect" illegals appear on eBay they are usually so recent as to not have been catalogued yet, have an inevitable BIN for about $7.50, and are always from the same sellers. Mostly in New England, Canada and the UK.

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Dave P, don't forget about the Olympic logo.

David B.

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Ken L
In these internet days where chatboards have such thought-out prose as "Can u tell me wot this stamp is", it is always a pleasure to read your writing.
Length is immaterial, especially on a Sunday afternoon without football and the inevitable procrastination about starting one's tax returns.

February 22, 2004 Dave P

Illegals
Ken L Without wishing to be drawn into your (entertaining) battle of words with Richard, there is one aspect of copyright that concerns me. I can understand you not being too bothered when an overpaid sports star misses out on a few dollars for the use of his image, but how about the misuse of charity logos, the World Wide fund for Wildlife and Rotary International are two that seem to be favourite targets of the illegals producers.

February 22, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Dialectic

Comrade Richard Warren, mere days ago I signed off here with the note I enjoy your sermons immensely, but I remain an infidel. Higher compliments are rarely scripted.

It’s a pity you haven’t read my works, nor I yours. We could spare the rest of our readers the need to wade through so much virtual ink, which must be tiresome to them, as we strive to become acquainted with each other.

Were you familiar with my oeuvre, you’d know that my philatelic and postal interests are universal. I write about stamps, covers, mail, postal politics and history, philatelic culture, the reactionary past and the revolutionary future. Next month marks my 20th year as a stamp writer, not only for hobby publications but also for two major encyclopedias. Several years ago I was inducted into the Philatelic Writers Hall of Fame. My articles and columns have garnered many awards. My book on United States coil stamps received an FIP vermeil medal with felicitations of the jury more than a decade ago.

My writings in the American Philatelic Congress Book and the American Philatelist on stamps and postal history of the independent Trucial States soundly thrashed the conventional stamp hobby wisdom that disparages them as Sand Dunes. Together they comprise the most comprehensive studies of those issues ever written. In the 1980s I wrote an occasional column for Linn’s Stamp News slugged Tomorrow’s Postal History, which was worldwide in scope, and the monthly Plate Number Coils column about modern U.S. stamps, as well as frequent articles on Germany, Japan, and various topicals, and infrequent articles on Cuba, Nicaragua, and modern Irish Republican locals. For about 15 years I wrote the American Philatelist’s column on United States Stamps. All my exhibits, including English Frama Stamps from Beginning to End, include stamps, covers, and other postal artifacts. My most serious exhibit is The Nazi Scourge: Postal Evidence of the Holocaust and the Devastation of Europe. You may consult my illustrated 48-page summary of the same title at the Germany Philatelic Society’s website.

I have absorbed what I think I understand of your collecting interests mainly by inference.

No doubt our differing perspectives are shaped by our respective cultures. Dwight Macdonald, the socialist/anarchist who edited the flagship journal of U.S. capitalism (Henry Luce’s Fortune magazine) during the depression, founded Politics magazine in the 1940s, and became a free-lance cultural critic in the 1950s, wrote that the best hope for America’s future is grounded in our glorious tradition of lawlessness. In today’s America that’s more a prayer than a prediction, but it remains my watchword.

Tony Benn recently lamented that whereas Americans are citizens, Brits are subjects, bearing burdens of royalty that limit his/their collective vision. His generous view of this republic needs adjustment, but I’d guess he understands his homeland and people pretty well. You tell me if these differences bear on ours.

Conspiracy is the negation of hegemony. The fascist coup in Italy occurred, as elsewhere, owing to the collapse of bourgeois hegemony. Neither the propagators of the official weltanschauung nor the masses who internalize it are conspirators. So let us discuss postage stamps and their uses.

My client Joann Lenz won a gold medal earlier this month at AmeriStamp Expo, the APS winter convention show in Norfolk. Her exhibit is titled: E-COM and its Forerunners, Expediting U.S. Domestic Mail Electronically. Like all mail before 1840 and like nearly all of today’s commercial mail, there’s not a stamp to be seen on any of the covers she displayed. And that is my point.

Hardly a week passes without a letter to Linn’s lamenting the absence of stamps on mail. That’s reality in the country that boasts the world’s largest volume of mail, carried by a postal system that is still a government-owned monopoly. Other metropolitan countries’ postal administrations are in various stages of privatization, with correspondingly greater financial incentives to widen the divide between stamps and mail.

In smaller countries the bond linking stamps to mail remains stronger, as you have argued. But in most of those places the divide is even greater between stamps for franking letters and so-called legal stamps sold to collectors, which seldom reach post offices of any nation. The finest example is Guyana, whose postal (many postal-fiscal) issues are virtually unknown to collectors, cataloguers, and the stamp trade. I collect them, but I don’t collect made-for-collectors stamps of Guyana that are listed in Scott and sold by stamp dealers, except for the ones that match my topical interests. Farther down that trail you reach Redonda.

As the connection between stamps and mail weakens and cleaves, the cultural importance of stamps grows in ways that would astound Rowland Hill. A good analogy is how organized religion survives in today’s secular world. Despite the near disappearance of worship (discounting political posturing disguised as fundamentalist devotion), churches retain a central and even exalted role in most modern societies as guardians of tradition and by overseeing and administering rites of passage – weddings and funerals, baptisms and bar mitzvahs, and so forth.

Today’s postage stamps (along with coins and currency) are emblems of national sovereignty or of colonial domination. I took my basic lesson in imperialism when I collected stamps of the Gold Coast, and in anti-imperialism when I collected the first provisional issues of Ghana. Wearing a non-philatelic hat, I met Nelson Mandela upon his release from prison and I regarded the stamp bearing his image as a triumph without pausing to ponder its franking value.

Another element is the use of postage stamps to unify and celebrate a nation’s history, culture, and creed; to honor its heroes, notables, and occasional villains; to underscore its values, aspirations, and diplomatic understandings. These are positive aspects that provide our hobby with some leverage among educators even though they have only a tenuous connection to mail.

But grafted onto those venerable non-postal purposes is an insatiable appetite for philatelic revenue, which has brought forth a rising tide of stamp issues threatens to drown us. These stamps bear scant resemblance to any postal or cultural purpose in their nominal countries of origin, or messages of international solidarity. Even the most habituated topical collectors (myself among them) are gulled by this flagrant assault on our dignity, but we buy them all the same.

For more than a century, collectors have protested this exploitative side of stamps, to no avail. I have before me a 1962 Universal Postal Union declaration that states in part: “The tendency to commercialize stamps has given rise to several strange practices. Some countries entrust, almost as a monopoly, the printing, sale and the distribution of their issues to a single business house abroad. It follows paradoxically that these postal values, which are intended to frank postal missives – under the provisions of the Convention of the UPU – are not printed, known or sold in the country of issue. . . . A justifiable protest movement has risen throughout the whole world, both from collectors, who are the scapegoats of speculation, and from national and international philatelic societies.” Every generation writes its own version of this article.

These practices inevitably gave birth to fierce rivalries, and to accusations of unscrupulous competition. When the Crown Agents lost the contract for Sharjah’s stamp issues to a syndicate based in Lebanon and Jordan, Stanley Gibbons refused to recognize perfectly legal issues of Sharjah that emanated from the Levant. (Many of them were later listed, but were omitted at a time when they could have been bought as new issues at face value.)

These modern afflictions reflect the negation of stamps as postage. Inevitably, stamp interlocutors evoked imitators, but as the stamp-scandal link you posted shows clearly, the distinction between authorized and unauthorized stamp agents is often too murky for outsiders to discern. For you, drawing the line is personally invigorating but philatelically enervating, so I admire your persistence. But the fact for any ordinary observer is, if these fit my topical interest, I want them; if they don’t, they are deplorable junk; and either way, I don’t really care whether the contract was signed by a corrupt head of state, by a bribed postal official, or by no one at all.

That is my overview of the looming crisis. Nostalgia for a golden age of philately that never existed won’t bring it back. Few pursuits are more futile than attempts to repeal history. That is the dialectic we face. I don’t know what the future holds (recipes for the cookshops of the future), but I do know that a quixotic struggle to favor legitimate exploiters against illegitimate exploiters isn’t for me. Credit the old Wobbly in me for that.
 

February 22, 2004 Dave P

Jim W-S That is how I would ID it. I would have laid good money that you would also have a copy Booth!

February 22, 2004 3:43 prometheus

Thanks For comments
Underate?

If the previous AIR-MAIL-SPEC DEL was Correct
Than this was Cheating2-cents?


Perfin Perfin is on a Christmas Card "private use"
fliched from the law school neat .
I really liked the CDS it self SEE

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Dave P
Am I interpreting that correctly, that it is Booth Type GD 70A on page 198?

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Dave P, I noticed that too and presumed that after William IV died they decided to get rid of the obselete stock of GIV instead of using QV.

David B.

February 22, 2004 Dave P

Revenue
Just to clarify the process, a piece of base paper was glued to the vellum, and then "stapled" with the silver strip, this was sealed off on the reverse with the cypher label

February 22, 2004 Dave P

British embossed revenues
Dave de Rooo The strip is silver, the process of attachment was designed for vellum and similar document which would not hold a conventional directly embossed stamp, and is known as escutcheoning. Interesting that they were using a King George cypher label years after his death. Most are of small value (chiefly I suspect because there is little collector interest). The best reference is "A Catalogue of Revenue Stamps Of UK etc" by R G Booth. I am uncertain of the latest edition - mine is 1990.

February 22, 2004 Dave De Roo

British Embossed Revenue

I need a bit of help with this British embossed revenue.
Where can I find a catalog for them (I have more).
Is the metal inclusion tin or silver?
I believe the "label" on the reverse is to hold the metal piece in place. Then it looks like the embossed stamp(?) is cut through where the metal piece is in order to expose it.
I'd like to add them to my knowledge base.

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Richard, there is always the logic,

because some of the legals are not really legal and some of the illegals are legal, then all illegals should be classified as legal. Difficult to understand but seems to convince the people that make decisions.

David B.
 

February 22, 2004 10.01 am Colin Judd http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_Japan_stamps/
 

Colin

February 22, 2004 David Benson

Knud,


Algeria used only French stamps and stationery to 1924. They normally have a premium but yours doesn't show the town name, presumably Algiers.
Normal Edinburgh cancel of the period.

David B.
 

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Knud-Erik
Just found your Edinburgh cancel.
It is type 9 in Mackay's Scottish postmarks.
I think it is May (this is unusual since month was usually 2 letters), over an oblong containing the number 22, separating the Letters B and A, with the year 1811 at base.

February 22, 2004 09:40 Bjorn Munch

Krakau card
Knud-Erik, the bottom cancel says on top RAKOV-MINSK. I find Rakov in my atlas as a small town 30km west of Minsk. So the card went from Krakow to Rakov :-) The middle cancel also says something with MINSK but I can't make ot the rest.
 

February 22, 2004 09:36 Jim Watson

Today in Postal History
Knud-Erik,
Thanks for the information. I've updated the page appropriately.

I looked at your covers. They are interesting but I can't help a bit. Sorry.

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Colin
Specialize in graptolites.
You'll be able to get them on an album page.

February 22, 2004 Jimj Whitford-Stark

Knud-Erik
Your Basel has Suisse Par Huningue transit.
Thats all I can help with.

February 22, 2004 08.39 am Colin Judd http://mysite.freeserve.com/GB_Special_Issues/
 

Colin

February 22, 2004 08.24 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 22, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Colin
It is amazing how many people do collect fossils.
There must be something deeply entrenched in the human psyche fascinated with collecting ancient life forms.
I like to acquire meteorites but it can be more expensive than collecting stamps.
Meteorites on stamps is cheaply done though.

February 22, 2004 Bill Dempwolf

Bill

February 22, 2004 07:40 PST Ferd W.

PRO... RE: Air Mail Special Delivery cover ! AM=8 cents + SD= 10 cents, total 18 cents,as franked [ prior to 7/1/34] Can't read date. FW

February 22, 2004 ten am prometheus <prometheus@1internetdrive.com>

more
Bill D How about Perfin


I believe the next piece was Delievered to the address this is the only Postal Indicia of any kind, Corect?

I also found this late use of an PPIE sovenier Postal
WW1

 

February 22, 2004 prometheus

New ,Neat ,and Mine
Check out this Great Hand applied Marking.
AirMail

Matt Little ticket was in this little envelope
backofticket

Little

Lback

Rate Question Is this Overpayment ??

TOOMUCH??

 

February 22, 2004 Richard Warren

Sorry, Ken, I'll get off your back soon. A different topic: do you happen to know if the state printers in Cuba (I assume there are no privately owned stamp printers there) print stamps for other countries? Or more accurately, for philatelic agencies claiming to represent other countries? If so, would you happen to know if they print for a lady philatelic agent in Germany, whose products may be distributed by a London dealer, probably mainly CTO and largely for the packet trade?

February 22, 2004 06.31 am Colin Judd UK http://mysite.freeserve.com/xzephyr_Japan_stamps/
 

Colin

February 22, 2004 Richard Reynolds <rick99@verizon.net>

Ethics
I don't usually post here, just read as I can't type very well, but I couldn't help myself on the subject of ethics. All my life I have tried to be ethical in dealing with others, but 2 years ago I puchased a book off ebay, it was a reprint of a book written some years back by an old time stamp dealer that is famous, and very well respected. After reading the book I threw it away, as in it was several stories of great finds and buys, unforately most of the time it was from people that didn't know what they had. What made me mad is he thought this would make the reading public happy for him. Ha!!!
Honest dealers and honest customers are the bedrock of this hobby, it's one thing to once in a while come up with a "find" for a lot less money which is something we all like to do. But to go into shops or to deal with people who are completley ignorant of what they have and set out to defraud them, I feel is somewhat unethical.

Over the years I delt with lots of dealers and could list the ones that on a day to day basis try to do this, and I no longer trade with them.
I guess I should not be bitter about other people being unethical but in 1989 I had to sell my 22 year U.S. Specialized Collection to care for my sick son. So my $12,000 collection went for $1600.00 because of an unethical dealer and time constaints. Some of my pieces was a 482A found amoung several #482's that bought over the years I had bought as I was a shade collector too, 3 #491's foung amoung lots of extra's of Washington-Franklin's only found after I joined BIA and joined the W-F Study Group, one of the largest and well centered #114's known and several other high value stamps. It made me so sick, it took over 3 years before I would even look at the rest of my collection and another 2 before I could start back on my U.S. I still think of what I had when I happen onto some stamp that I need now and I still feel cheated and abused, but I still try and deal honestly with any buyers of my excess material, try and grade it like it is and not everything I have as EX Fine or better, like an awful lot of seller's on ebay do. Most of my memories are one of fondness of my old dealers and got to know each one and considered each one a good friend, all except 1 are dead now, I think with fondness my buddies at the club's I use to go to and all the "Vest Pocket Dealers" and laugh, but though it all I can only hope that my seller & buyer friends and dealers always could say "he is very ethical and honest". Thank you Richard

February 22, 2004 06.07 Knud-Erik Andersen

February 22, 2004 Dave De Roo

GB & BC Revenue Catalog
I've been using Barefoot for GB & BC revenues.
But some time back someone mentioned there was a better resource (at least for GB revenues).
Would someone please tell me again what it is?

February 22, 2004 05:11 Jim Watson

My second item is a post card from the Galapagos to Canada in 1956. It is an example of the barrel mail sent from the islands. It waited 5½ months for a pickup!

February 22, 2004 Richard Warren

Ken - how much postal history do you collect? I collect Burma/Myanmar postal history (including modern stampless EMS covers) as well as stamps. (With only two new stamps in fourteeen months, there would be little to do if I didn't!) Therefore I'm made very much aware of what actual mail looks like in my collecting area, and I see stamps in that context. If you are less inclined that way, does this make an important difference to our respective views? Just wondered.

February 22, 2004 Richard Warren

Others here are probably becoming bored with this, but you can tell that I'm working hard to establish some common ground. At least symmetry is a version of likeness ...

February 22, 2004 John Forsyth

A bit of humor perhaps. Here

February 21, 2004 David Benson

Ken L.

Could you please explain what this comment that you made means,

" Right now I think the eBay stamp complaints system is filled to capacity, so until that problem is resolved, teaching more people how to employ it is destined to evoke expectations that cannot be met. But if sufficient resources can be devoted to it, your suggestion would eventually be appropriate. "

David B.

February 21, 2004 Matt Liebson

Pro: nice little train ticket.

Brian R: Way back to something mentioned this morning, but I was the buyer on that W.T. Sherman cover (which was just his signature as the endorsing officer on a soldier's cover, there is no letter). Not only did I get it for $12, there was another bidder -- who must not have noticed WHO the officer was.

By the way, "victory dances" are all well and good, but don't do them on the bourse floor after buying something from a dealer at a show. Some dealers don't like that. :) (others, as have been mentioned, are satisfied with their markup).

February 21, 2004 Roger Heath

Pro
Thanks for the scan. Lausanne is the PO where deCoppet used to visit all the time. There is no record of any razor canceller from Lausanne being out of service. That was an interesting forwarded card, but Lausanne is one of the common uses. As you have discovered razors are found once in a while, so keep looking and add to your collection. At this time I must stay with what I have unless a piece upgrades thos eI have.

The postage due card from Switzerland is also found frequently. The reason being that some European countries had already agreed that written messages were OK on the address side, provided the words didn't intrude into the address space. The US had not signed whatever documents necessary until, I think, late 1906. So you have post cards pnted and giving every indication of being used correctly, but treated at letter rate on arrival to US shores. Previoously all writing had to be on picturre side of card, which was pretty stupid for communications.

Roger

February 21, 2004 prometheus

A few of todays things
The German stuff was real disappointing, Got a couple of Feldposts that was about it.

here a a few sacns.

I-Like-myOverprints-used

Nice=strike

REGS-to-Greece

Usage-revenue

Thought-I-was-over-perfins-saw-this

nice-6-due

Neatperfinned17-resistered

OberCommandos

MattL-Look

XMASSEALTIED-BY-FLAG

February 21, 2004 prometheus

Hello All
Roger H - did you see the whole scan of that razor.


NOIP Any of you well read dudes remember " evangaline Addams" Evangeline Adams single-handedly popularized astrology in the United States.

Got some of the last mail she sent out before her death neat , Googled 800 hits might be good stuff.
Some signatures and readings, offers and prepaid returns for your gift.

February 21, 2004 Jim (jaywild)

This eBay seller has a million of these listed in the Stamps>US 19th Century used category.

February 21, 2004 Roger Heath

Ebay Name
Jim W-S -
Same here. Malolo is real fast. The fingers carry over sometimes and make typo words such as "psot" and "becasue" frequently. While in Honolulu last weekend we happened to catch the Vladimir Horowitz Special on TV. Talk about magic fingers!!

Roger

February 21, 2004 Ken Lawrence

Redonda and Hegemony

Anne, I apologize. I missed your queries to me the other night. High on Antonio Gramsci, I guess, but you really ought to read him. He not only explained how we are captive to an alien world view without being literally shackled (that's hegemony), but he also showed how we might learn to become free. It's all the more surprising when you realize that Gramsci was literally imprisoned by Mussolini when he wrote his most important philosophy. These insights are directly pertinent to intelligent stamp collectors who remain hostage to obsolete ideas about postage stamps, mail, and postal administrations.

Right now I think the eBay stamp complaints system is filled to capacity, so until that problem is resolved, teaching more people how to employ it is destined to evoke expectations that cannot be met. But if sufficient resources can be devoted to it, your suggestion would eventually be appropriate.

Redonda is an unihabited island, part of the country known as Antigua and Barbuda. Being a specialist in Walt Disney philately, I once owned a lot of Redonda stamps and covers. Lack of human habitation or a post office hasn't stopped this entity from issuing legal postage stamps, duly recognized by the Universal Postal Union. (Stamps of Redonda do exist on mail posted and canceled at the Redonda Philatelic Bureau, St. John's, Antigua.)

You have to admit it's convenient to have a place like Redonda when a billionaire like John Du Pont wants to purchase a stamp issue bearing his image. But major countries are catching up with Redonda, and now charge considerably less than $10,000 to put your face on one of their stamps.

 

February 21, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Yep Lavar,
it was from Ed Benson in UK.

February 21, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Bob,
Yes retroactively, I didn't realize how useful my eBay name would be.
I can hit the io with one finger and ma and n are closeby each other.
And I can still hit 0 second snipes on a dial-up modem, though prefer 5 seconds which is what most esnipe customers seem to use.
 

February 21, 2004 Lavar Taylor

Puke Green Tape Club
Jim W-S We can form a puke green tape club, membership only to those who have received mail with the puke green tape. I am curious about the country from which your cover originated (mine was from the UK). Was it foreign or domestic?

February 21, 2004 Bob in WA

It's times like then that you regret having a 13-character password!

February 21, 2004 3:49 pm Bob in WA

Old days -- I am a May 1998 entry to eBay, so past 5½ years now. I remember furious snipe attempts when esnipe was non existent or rare, and current bells and whistles did not exist--you had to re-enter ID and password for each new bid! My biggest coup was winning a lot that I first stumbled on with 50 seconds to go! Included in this time was reading enough of the description to realize it was something I wanted, then going through the whole bid rigamarole, and on slow dialup, too, not DSL! I got my bid in with 6 seconds to spare!

February 21, 2004 Alec

Japan Card update
My thanks to all who helped earlier. German friend is contacting krautinjapan directly. He will I hope pass on the regards of Dave.

Nice to know there is help in this great hobby of ours. If and when the items do get listed for sale on ebay then I will try to let ones know here as the chances are they will be offered in the German ebay. Help with that site I can easily give.

Best wishes to all from the UK

February 21, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Roger
If I'm about to snipe something cheap that I want, I normally bid three bid increments above existing bid, plus a few odd cents.
Most of the time it is not apparent, since by sniping at close range, original high bidder has no chance to respond and it appears that I won by one bid increment.
However, I can get outbid by esnipe to which I can't respond.
Though usually my bid is my max.
So I don't worry about it.

February 21, 2004 Roger Heath

Maybe bad example
Bob-
I tried to show that I don't place "cents" below 50 cents any more. The possibility of someone playing the same game, just above the dollar, means that often one won't win unless the bid is a full increment above the underbidder. A bid above the 50 cents level will tend to require another person to break the next "dollar plateau", which in the land of cheapskates is psycholgically difficult to do.

Roger

February 21, 2004 2:50 pm Bob in WA

Roger -- I don't follow your example. Your bid is a full increment above the underbidder.

February 21, 2004 Don Mackert <donald.mackert@comcast.net>

Philatelic Literature
All who answered,

Thank you for the information.

VR

Don M.

February 21, 2004 Pacific Ken Pugh <kpugh@shaw.ca> http://kenpugh.ca
 

eBay cancel fakes - can it happen to U.S. postal history ?
Richard, Brian, Dave Many thanks for your comments! I will be posting the problem on Richard's site as well. and will look up what has been written. In any case, I now know there is a concern. Faith has been restored!

February 21, 2004 Roger Heath

Colorado Cover
Jim W -
We never know the true high bid, but I've adjusted some of my "odd cents" bids because when thinking about the various standard bids one sees, and accounting for increments, some bids make no sense unless there is no competition. If the winner of this card had placed an even $200, which is not unusual, the under bidder would have won with a bid only 4% more. Obviously if he still lost, the winner would have paid about $208. I am always trying to guess what the round number bidders will bid and then I bid accordingly. This is an example where I won from Knud-Erik with less than an increment in reserve using the strategy I describe.

Jim W-S -
K/T Boundary = Kealakekua/Tongueincheek Boundary

Roger

 

February 21, 2004 Richard Ballhagen (spain_1850)

Mauro - Thank you. Info appreciated.

February 21, 2004 Richard Warren

though one must bear in mind that the "source" of this material is himself at least a major distributor of illegals, and that the whole project is, it seems to me, just one big explosion of sour grapes. So all to be taken with a very large pinch of salt. (Now I'm scrambling metaphors ..) You may notice the Monaco reference, and a forthcoming item apparently is to feature a personality we have both mentioned here without naming him.

February 21, 2004 Richard Warren

PS: you were so right about smoking. My second son spent a year or two of studenthood "caned out of his skull on ganja", to use the current terminology here, and has since grown out of it. But he is now addicted to tobacco as a result.

February 21, 2004 12:32 Jim Watson

Philatelic Literature
Don,
You've got a good start on a good list. I would hope you have the Century Edition of the Thorp-Bartels. Although I don't have any immediate additions to recommend, I will provide some good lists. Back in 1999 the members of the eUSC put together a list of literature recommendations. There are three pages: Part I covers, among other things the recommendations regarding US literature; Part II covers principally world-wide literature; Recommended Italian Literature emphasizes Italian literature. Inspection will suggest what might be of use in adding to your list.

February 21, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Don
A good source is the list prepared by Jimbo for the eUSC which can be seen here.
I'd add Helbock's "United States Post Offices".

February 21, 2004 Mauro Mowszowicz

Richard B.
Scott Classics 2004
286 U - 65
MR19 & 20 - 2.75 each
 

February 21, 2004 12:19 Jim Watson

An Interesting Colorado Postal Card
Roger,
Thanks for the interest. I rather think that the winning bidder would have been a winner at $208.06 against an underbidder of $205.56 as well. In short, I suspect the winner put in a bid which he wanted to assure was a winner. I wouldn't be too surprised if the winner was prepared to spend perhaps as much as $500 for that item. I think it has quite a bit of 'character' for what appears to be a simple item. We still don't know the subject of the card, anything about the recipient (I did try some references to no avail), or the sender. All could have added to the interest in the item. Any way, it was fun to study. (Even a frugal collector can enjoy studying postal history.)

February 21, 2004 12:18 Dave F. (moderator)

Jim W-S: Excellent suggestion! Yes, Alec, Goetz would be extremely well-qualified to evaluate the material. And please encourage him to stop by here sometime and say hi. (We had planned to get together when I was in Tokyo for PhilaNippon, but then both of our schedules went crazy and it didn't happen.)

February 21, 2004 Don Mackert <donald.mackert@comcast.net>

Philatelic Books For US Material
Hello,

I was wondering what a must have list of philatelic books would be for a collector and part time seller of US Material.

I currectly have the following: Scott Specialized 2004, Miracalli Identification Guide, Schmid Experts Book, Durland Plate Number Catalog, Bartels for Postal Stationary, Schmid for Altered Stamnps, Postal Stationary Society for Postcards, Herst Zareski for Fancy Cancelations.

Thank you for your advice.

VR

Don M.

February 21, 2004 Jim Whitford-Stark

Alec
Suggest you try Goetz, who goes by eBay name of krautinjapan.
He's also German, so you should be able to converse readily.

Ken
Planetary volcanology, but being at a small school, my courses are spread over a variety of subdisciplines within Geology.
BTW look for references to Mrfakecancel on Richards site.
Just yesterday, I arranged vehicle to take students to K/T boundary in Big Bend National Park.